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Scotland Under 21s Vs England Under 21s (5:30pm)


Chripper

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Bottling it? We are Scotland, we don't have a divine right to win every game, and when we don't win a game it doesn't automatically mean we bottled it. Ukraine are a good team, like Holland are a good team and we are a good team. Anyone of those 3 could have finished Second in that group, we are all much the same and all had differing results over the course of qualifying. On the night Ukraine were marginally better and got a couple of breaks. We never bottled that game, we were never overwhelming favourites in the first place. England will be favourites in this game as they are by far the best team in the group.

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57 minutes ago, bazmidd said:

Bottling it? We are Scotland, we don't have a divine right to win every game, and when we don't win a game it doesn't automatically mean we bottled it. Ukraine are a good team, like Holland are a good team and we are a good team. Anyone of those 3 could have finished Second in that group, we are all much the same and all had differing results over the course of qualifying. On the night Ukraine were marginally better and got a couple of breaks. We never bottled that game, we were never overwhelming favourites in the first place. England will be favourites in this game as they are by far the best team in the group.

Fair points, but did you actually watch the match?

I don't think we strung four passes together in the entire match. It's the Scottish mantra of "Launch it up the field as soon as possible!"

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2 hours ago, Chripper said:

Fair points, but did you actually watch the match?

I don't think we strung four passes together in the entire match. It's the Scottish mantra of "Launch it up the field as soon as possible!"

That bottom bit is garbage. We couldn’t get out because Ukraine were pressing us well and making it hard to play through the lines. Some of the football this 21’s and and the age groups below have played has been outstanding in recent times.

The Scottish mantra through the development squads now is play out from the gk through the thirds through interchanges and quick movements. Having a physical striker means if we can’t break a unit we can mix it up by hitting the striker and playing off him, that’s not “launch it up” that’s playing an adaptable style.

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17 minutes ago, BraveheartGordon said:

That bottom bit is garbage. We couldn’t get out because Ukraine were pressing us well and making it hard to play through the lines. Some of the football this 21’s and and the age groups below have played has been outstanding in recent times.

The Scottish mantra through the development squads now is play out from the gk through the thirds through interchanges and quick movements. Having a physical striker means if we can’t break a unit we can mix it up by hitting the striker and playing off him, that’s not “launch it up” that’s playing an adaptable style.

Huh. Well, I suppose football is a game of opinions. I've watched every Under 21 match through this campaign, to say that I'm not Impressed is a bit of an understatement. Three of the matches that I remember vividly is scraping a draw at home to Latvia via a penalty three minutes into injury time. Scraping a draw at to Andorra, again scoring in injury time. And the previous match against Holland, yes, we won, but call me weird but I'd rather win by playing possession football, rather than a backs-to-the-wall win, thanks to their goalkeepers going walkabouts and a penalty.

We played Ukraine at home, there's no excuse for that performance. Our players, throughout the age groups, simply cannot keep calm whilst pressed, even by a team of the standard of Ukraine.

If you think my opinion is garbage then fair enough, I hope to holy crap turns out to be! I just want to see progress, we all do.

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4 minutes ago, Chripper said:

Huh. Well, I suppose football is a game of opinions. I've watched every Under 21 match through this campaign, to say that I'm not Impressed is a bit of an understatement. Three of the matches that I remember vividly is scraping a draw at home to Latvia via a penalty three minutes into injury time. Scraping a draw at to Andorra, again scoring in injury time. And the previous match against Holland, yes, we won, but call me weird but I'd rather win by playing possession football, rather than a backs-to-the-wall win, thanks to their goalkeepers going walkabouts and a penalty.

We played Ukraine at home, there's no excuse for that performance. Our players, throughout the age groups, simply cannot keep calm whilst pressed, even by a team of the standard of Ukraine.

If you think my opinion is garbage then fair enough, I hope to holy crap turns out to be! I just want to see progress, we all do.

This has been a strange campaign in that the players in the squad have slowly changed over the course. A few of the earlier games that you mentioned we didn't play well. Andorra away was horrible. But since Mikey Johnston, Fraser Hornby and Billy Gilmour were introduced at Toulon tournament they have slowly started to play the same way these guys have been playing for the U19s. The performances have been much better. It is a big miss being without Johnston and Hornby tonight and will also be interesting to see how Gilmour does up against an older more experienced England midfield.

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4 minutes ago, bazmidd said:

This has been a strange campaign in that the players in the squad have slowly changed over the course. A few of the earlier games that you mentioned we didn't play well. Andorra away was horrible. But since Mikey Johnston, Fraser Hornby and Billy Gilmour were introduced at Toulon tournament they have slowly started to play the same way these guys have been playing for the U19s. The performances have been much better. It is a big miss being without Johnston and Hornby tonight and will also be interesting to see how Gilmour does up against an older more experienced England midfield.

All three are definitely decent players.

I agree, though, it's been a strange campaign. Weirdly enough when we do have a bizarre campaign with our Under 21s it usually involves Holland. I remember us beating them twice a few campaigns ago, in one of the games Rhodes scores a hat-trick... I think we still failed to qualify as we tripped up against the minnows. I think it's a pattern with us at all levels, we're fine against teams who attack us, but we struggle against teams that sit deep. We're always lacking a creative spark. I do have high hopes for Lewis Morgan, too bad he went to Celtic, as he won't get much game time. 

I remember seeing him rip the Holland right-back to shreds a year or so ago. Why do we always play Holland?

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1 hour ago, Chripper said:

Huh. Well, I suppose football is a game of opinions. I've watched every Under 21 match through this campaign, to say that I'm not Impressed is a bit of an understatement. Three of the matches that I remember vividly is scraping a draw at home to Latvia via a penalty three minutes into injury time. Scraping a draw at to Andorra, again scoring in injury time. And the previous match against Holland, yes, we won, but call me weird but I'd rather win by playing possession football, rather than a backs-to-the-wall win, thanks to their goalkeepers going walkabouts and a penalty.

We played Ukraine at home, there's no excuse for that performance. Our players, throughout the age groups, simply cannot keep calm whilst pressed, even by a team of the standard of Ukraine.

If you think my opinion is garbage then fair enough, I hope to holy crap turns out to be! I just want to see progress, we all do.

It is not correct that across the age groups we can’t keep the ball. The u17 and u19s are outstanding at this.

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I've read a few times on here that our youngsters are now learning to play the ball from the back, this is what other nations have been doing since 2000, why are we always light years behind in terms of layer size, technique and pretty much every other department................................no need to answer. We know why

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11 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

I've read a few times on here that our youngsters are now learning to play the ball from the back, this is what other nations have been doing since 2000, why are we always light years behind in terms of layer size, technique and pretty much every other department................................no need to answer. We know why

The only players that need to be judged in terms of blame or praise for the SFA are the ones 17 and under, as they are the ones who've been through the performance schools. They have been tearing it up at that age group against the superpowers, so we’ll see in about 2 years when they’re in the u21s (or senior side), if things are going to change. 

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One of the main problems for a number of years now has been first team opportunities. How many of the squad that made the UEFA U19 championships final in 2006 went onto play at any decent level....... Dorrans and Steven Fletcher maybe?? 

And look at the current SPL the now....... one of our problem areas is up front for example...... list the teams and tell me who plays up front for them? I think only Brophy, shaw and obv griffiths get games! And Shaw is nowhere near good enough!

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10 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

The only players that need to be judged in terms of blame or praise for the SFA are the ones 17 and under, as they are the ones who've been through the performance schools. They have been tearing it up at that age group against the superpowers, so we’ll see in about 2 years when they’re in the u21s (or senior side), if things are going to change. 

BUT they need to get the opportunities to play....... Hearts stopped the Celtic unbeaten run, playing a 16 year old from the start.... and he was one of the best players on the park!

Edited by SWMM82
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Tbh the group that will be 21s next year, the likes of Johnston, Hornby, Porteous and Middleton were Gemmills first group he had at U17s and they seem to have all come through the age groups together. They are all around 19 so here's hoping the next U21 campaign goes better and adding the likes of Gilmour, Cochrane and hopefully a few others to the group

 

And just to add... England are probably the best in the world at that level right now so I wouldn't be too disheartened by tonight. A few of those players will go on to be world class

Edited by bazmidd
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It was a case of Men vs Boys.

We aren't even proficient enough to cross the halfway like with the ball.

At under 21 level the last time that we got anything from England was 1982, which says all you need to know about the way that out football association and how our clubs and coaches bring through our youngsters. Root and branch the aforementioned have ignored their duty to impart some sort of ideology onto our kids. We lack identity. We have lacked any sort of a plan for decades and we are so far behind the majority of countries that I'm embarrassed for us.

People can talk about Jack Harper or Burke or Gilmour but it's nothing more than papering over the cracks. We need to stop pinning hopes on this player and that player as it only brings us false hope. Personally, I'm sick of seeing false dawns.

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1 minute ago, er yir macaroon said:

He’s been injured since the start of the season.

 

1 minute ago, er yir macaroon said:

He’s been injured since the start of the season.

Yeah I saw that, other ones to look out for are Dean Campbell and Ethan Ross at Aberdeen, Nathan Paterson and Mebude (fae Govan) and McPake at Rangers, Anthony McDonald at Hearts, just to name a few....... all either 16/17 years old.

We’ve also developed Dembele but it’s still up in the air who he will end up playing international football for if he fulfils his potential.

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