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If we lose the next match then we might as well just cut half the existing team and get a host of new players "blooded" for the future. 

Why the hell not just get Michael Johnston, Stevie Mallan, Liam Henderson and Jack Harper in and see what happens ?

And ask Ryan Fraser is he genuinely wants to play for Scotland or not. If he doesn't then bye bye.

As the new back up to Scott McKenna and John Souttar (once he recovers from injury) let's get Michael Devlin, Ryan Porteous and Craig Halkett into the senior team and playing some games. 

Jon McLaughlin needs to get some more international experience quite soon. Alan McGregor simply can't go on forever and let's be honest with ourselves, as much as he is a hero to many of us, Craig Gordon is done. It would also be prudent to get the Portsmouth goalie, Craig MacGillivray, formally signed up.

Has anyone else come round to thinking that if we are sunk further down a hole then we should just go right ahead with giving Billy Gilmour and Fraser Hornby their senior debuts next year anyway ? Maybe their youthful zest might bring a little light to the darkness we are staggering around in ? If other nations can use players that young and inexperienced a debut in a competitive games then why should we always have to be the bloody exception ?

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32 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

If we lose the next match then we might as well just cut half the existing team and get a host of new players "blooded" for the future. 

Why the hell not just get Michael Johnston, Stevie Mallan, Liam Henderson and Jack Harper in and see what happens ?

And ask Ryan Fraser is he genuinely wants to play for Scotland or not. If he doesn't then bye bye.

As the new back up to Scott McKenna and John Souttar (once he recovers from injury) let's get Michael Devlin, Ryan Porteous and Craig Halkett into the senior team and playing some games. 

Jon McLaughlin needs to get some more international experience quite soon. Alan McGregor simply can't go on forever and let's be honest with ourselves, as much as he is a hero to many of us, Craig Gordon is done. It would also be prudent to get the Portsmouth goalie, Craig MacGillivray, formally signed up.

Has anyone else come round to thinking that if we are sunk further down a hole then we should just go right ahead with giving Billy Gilmour and Fraser Hornby their senior debuts next year anyway ? Maybe their youthful zest might bring a little light to the darkness we are staggering around in ? If other nations can use players that young and inexperienced a debut in a competitive games then why should we always have to be the bloody exception ?

Hear hear 

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On 10/22/2018 at 2:03 PM, ErsatzThistle said:

If we lose the next match then we might as well just cut half the existing team and get a host of new players "blooded" for the future.

Isn't the current team the result of doing basically that?

McKenna, Souttar, Hendry, Devlin, McTominay, McGregor, McGinn, Morgan, McBurnie.

So doing what you suggest is having mixed results.. to we should double down and pick a squad of 21 year olds?
Maybe we should get Berti back in too..

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46 minutes ago, andyD said:

Isn't the current team the result of doing basically that?

McKenna, Souttar, Hendry, Devlin, McTominay, McGregor, McGinn, Morgan, McBurnie.

So doing what you suggest is having mixed results.. to we should double down and pick a squad of 21 year olds?
Maybe we should get Berti back in too..

Paul Dickov from the berti time period would be preferable 

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14 hours ago, andyD said:

Isn't the current team the result of doing basically that?

McKenna, Souttar, Hendry, Devlin, McTominay, McGregor, McGinn, Morgan, McBurnie.

So doing what you suggest is having mixed results.. to we should double down and pick a squad of 21 year olds?
Maybe we should get Berti back in too..

A couple of them made their debuts under Strachan rather than McLeish. And in any event he had no choice but to pick the likes of Scott McKenna and John Souttar.

Jack Hendry is a poor footballer and should not be in the national team. Anyway, we won't be seeing much of him again after January when Celtic buy someone to replace him.

And Michael Devlin is still waiting for his debut. Against Portugal he was stupidly left on the bench for the whole game. Jon McLaughlin too should have played against the Portuguese and got some much needed experience rather than a clearly finished Craig Gordon. Opportunities missed again.

But hey ho lets just keep picking the old guard just for auld lang syne and wait until the next lot are in their mid twenties to get them in the national team. Same auld rotten attitude that's held us back for years.

Would you like to over-analyse the sheer living daylights out of that ?

Just seen your idea on the other thread that starting Kevin McDonald and Graeme Shinnie against Israel and Albania will solve all our problems. Aye, good one :rollsmile:

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On 10/22/2018 at 9:03 AM, ErsatzThistle said:

If we lose the next match then we might as well just cut half the existing team and get a host of new players "blooded" for the future. 

Why the hell not just get Michael Johnston, Stevie Mallan, Liam Henderson and Jack Harper in and see what happens ?

And ask Ryan Fraser is he genuinely wants to play for Scotland or not. If he doesn't then bye bye.

As the new back up to Scott McKenna and John Souttar (once he recovers from injury) let's get Michael Devlin, Ryan Porteous and Craig Halkett into the senior team and playing some games. 

Jon McLaughlin needs to get some more international experience quite soon. Alan McGregor simply can't go on forever and let's be honest with ourselves, as much as he is a hero to many of us, Craig Gordon is done. It would also be prudent to get the Portsmouth goalie, Craig MacGillivray, formally signed up.

Has anyone else come round to thinking that if we are sunk further down a hole then we should just go right ahead with giving Billy Gilmour and Fraser Hornby their senior debuts next year anyway ? Maybe their youthful zest might bring a little light to the darkness we are staggering around in ? If other nations can use players that young and inexperienced a debut in a competitive games then why should we always have to be the bloody exception ?

One thing we can't fault McLeish on is blooding new players. Everyone who was being touted a year ago on this board now has a cap, unless their name is Liam.

You've listed 9 players there... There's only so many games, and you can't just have a whole team of debutants and keep any kind of competitive record against the teams we're coming up with... What you're really asking for is a Peru and Mexico trip every year so we get to have a look at a whole bunch of new players in the international environment.

I do think there's an argument to be had for picking our bets on a few young players, like in the way Wales and Northern Ireland do when they're still barely professional... Would Ryan Gauld have done better in Portugal if he was already a regular pick for Scotland? I don't know, but I think he might. We have absolutely no strikers (if Griffiths and Naismith aren't available) and Fraser Hornby, while he can't get a game for his club, has excelled in the u21s... I'd throw him in on the bench as it's no less likely to succeed than playing McBurnie.

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5 hours ago, COLT NY said:

One thing we can't fault McLeish on is blooding new players. Everyone who was being touted a year ago on this board now has a cap, unless their name is Liam.

You've listed 9 players there... There's only so many games, and you can't just have a whole team of debutants and keep any kind of competitive record against the teams we're coming up with... What you're really asking for is a Peru and Mexico trip every year so we get to have a look at a whole bunch of new players in the international environment.

I do think there's an argument to be had for picking our bets on a few young players, like in the way Wales and Northern Ireland do when they're still barely professional... Would Ryan Gauld have done better in Portugal if he was already a regular pick for Scotland? I don't know, but I think he might. We have absolutely no strikers (if Griffiths and Naismith aren't available) and Fraser Hornby, while he can't get a game for his club, has excelled in the u21s... I'd throw him in on the bench as it's no less likely to succeed than playing McBurnie.

"One thing we can't fault McLeish on is blooding new players. Everyone who was being touted a year ago on this board now has a cap, unless their name is Liam."

He didn't really want McKenna, Souttar or O'Donnell for example to be first team this early though did he ? No. He was forced by bad circumstance to play them. If everyone had been fit and available you can bet Souttar would still be uncapped and McKenna would only have had a two or three runs off the bench such is the prevalent conservative attitude that infects Scottish football.

You've listed 9 players there... There's only so many games, and you can't just have a whole team of debutants and keep any kind of competitive record against the teams we're coming up with... What you're really asking for is a Peru and Mexico trip every year so we get to have a look at a whole bunch of new players in the international environment.

I want change but I don't want to drop absolutely everybody and have not suggested an "entire team of debutants". Steven Naismith and Alan McGregor for obvious reasons have to be kept on. Maybe Christophe Berra and Charlie Mulgrew too. But we cannot keep picking yesterdays men like Snodgrass, Ritchie and Phillips. Whilst that hoofer McDonald and hopeless Hendry have been woeful and Mackay-Steven and Murphy don't really offer anything. Having at least one friendly a year against opposition we stand at least half a chance of beating, rather than the present insane policy of picking the most powerful opposition available, is a good way to settle in the newcomers

We have absolutely no strikers (if Griffiths and Naismith aren't available) and Fraser Hornby, while he can't get a game for his club, has excelled in the u21s... I'd throw him in on the bench as it's no less likely to succeed than playing McBurnie.

Yeah, I would support calling up Hornby now. If other nations can do it an get the benefit (look at Wales) then why shouldn't we be the exception I ask ?

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9 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

keep picking the old guard
Same auld rotten attitude that's held us back for years.

Just seen your idea on the other thread that starting Kevin McDonald and Graeme Shinnie against Israel and Albania will solve all our problems. Aye, good one :rollsmile:

This is where i just don't understand you.

The liked of McDonald and Shinnie have less than 10 caps combined. They're clearly not the old guard and they're not what's been the problem for years. So suggest otherwise is to fly in the face of obvious facts.

Looking thru the whole squad we have very very few caps in recent squads. So, we already have rotated out the old guard:
Russel Martin, Berra, McArthur, Darren Fletcher, Bannan, Ritchie, Snodgrass, Brown, Steven Fletcher, Morrison, Anya, Chris Martin, Wallace.. there's probably more. But these guys are all but gone now.

What you seem to be advocating now is culling anyone over 23, just because.. and that's crazy. And I wonder who you'll call to be dropped when the kids fail too.

Bringing thru young players is vital for the future of the side, but playing only young players will probably stifle all of them, and it'll make results even worse than they would have been in the short-medium term. The squad should be made up of the best players available who can play in a coherent and workable system for us to win games. Simple as that.

 

Directly about McDonald and Shinnie: We've played 3 at the back a few times and our defensive line was exposed each time. We didn't have a coherent midfield and we didn't protect the defense enough. I'd hope that was clear for all to see. Playing 3 at the back with only one defensive mid is not something that will work. If you look thru the sides deploying a back 3, everyone I've seen had 2 out and out defensive mids, who protect the back 3, or drop into it when one of the outside defenders is pulled wide. So yes. I'd play 2 out and out defensive mids. Take your pick from those available.. McDonald, Shinnie, McTominay, Jack, Coutts, whoever. McGinn and McGregor can't do that job, and the team needs to be able to do that job. So your choice is pick 2 or change the formation.

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