Back McLeish

[Saint4805]

I'm not necessarily advocating Robertson playing as a winger ahead of Tierney for an entire game but it's not as crazy as some make out. Anyone who has watched Liverpool this season will have seen that Milner often drops back to fill in at left back while Robertson gets forward while Liverpool are in possession. Klopp clearly recognises that Robertson's attacking and crossing ability is a weapon.   

[Third Lanark]

18 hours ago, Chripper said:

If I was the manager I would write off the Nations League (Let's face it, in our current predicament, if we did qualify for the next European Championship via the back door, we'll get stuffed)  and focus on the formation issue, as nothing that we've tried under the previous 5 managers have worked.

People seem to think that 3 at the back is an Alien tactic that can only be perfected by football geniuses. 

I don't think we would have lost the first goal v Portugal if we had had 3 central defenders; with a back 4 one gets dragged out (Hendry) then only one to defend.

[Chripper]

1 hour ago, Third Lanark said:

I don't think we would have lost the first goal v Portugal if we had had 3 central defenders; with a back 4 one gets dragged out (Hendry) then only one to defend.

And someone gets it! Thank you!

Our defenders aren't intelligent, so playing with a three would literally just give us an extra body back there to be in the way.

[Rolling hIlls]

23 hours ago, 1ANDYP said:

Time to get behind the team in Albania and against israel at hampden. I know its hard and performances pish. But as fans we should be doing our best to get behind them. 

Correct. I have something in common with alex. Both get called jaikies on here. He will come back.

[Rolling hIlls]

When u cannot support your own. But that will make me and mcleish jakies. Get yer whippet and buckfast out.

[Texas Pete]

18 hours ago, exile said:

So if we're agreed that McLeish is going to lead us into the next two games then the conclusion would seem to be to back the manager. 

Absolutely.

I will back the manager until we are in a position where we don’t have a playoff for Euro 2020. 

If we get to the playoffs, and in particular if we are at home in the first playoff tie, McLeish will have done his job albeit with one terrible result/performance in Haifa. 

If we don’t get a playoff from this group then McLeish will have failed and should be sacked. 

People are calling for the guy to be sacked now but his win percentage in competitive games this time is still 50%. Let’s see what it is on 20th November at 9:35pm before writing him off. He was given the job and he should be given the chance to do it. He should not be sacked because some people, a lot of whom know next to hee haw about football, assume that he will definitely fail. 

[stevenmcn]

5 hours ago, Chripper said:

And someone gets it! Thank you!

Our defenders aren't intelligent, so playing with a three would literally just give us an extra body back there to be in the way.

But that "extra body back there" leaves us light in midfield because let's be honest we play a 5-3-2 not 3-5-2. Plus as someone said we don't really have anyone who plays wing back apart from possibly Ryan Fraser. Right now, in my humble opinion, we need to play some variation of a 4-5-1, and building the midfield around McGinn, Armstrong, McGregor and possibly Cairney and Fraser.

[Texas Pete]

6 hours ago, Chripper said:

And someone gets it! Thank you!

Our defenders aren't intelligent, so playing with a three would literally just give us an extra body back there to be in the way.

This may be the most clueless thing I have ever seen posted on here and I’ve seen some pish on this forum in my time (a lot of it posted by myself to be fair). 

[Chripper]

2 hours ago, stevenmcn said:

But that "extra body back there" leaves us light in midfield because let's be honest we play a 5-3-2 not 3-5-2. Plus as someone said we don't really have anyone who plays wing back apart from possibly Ryan Fraser. Right now, in my humble opinion, we need to play some variation of a 4-5-1, and building the midfield around McGinn, Armstrong, McGregor and possibly Cairney and Fraser.

Truth is, we're lightweight all over the park, we're akin to a jigsaw puzzle with a missing piece; no matter where we move the pieces there's almost an area that looks sparse. I agree about the midfielders, but I do wish we had an anchorman, I have hopes for McTominay, but I think he's a work in progress. He certainly has the frame and the stature that we haven't had in midfield for a long while.

[Chripper]

1 hour ago, Texas Pete said:

This may be the most clueless thing I have ever seen posted on here and I’ve seen some pish on this forum in my time (a lot of it posted by myself to be fair). 

Hendry is in a perpetual daze, his concentration levels are shocking. McKenna has potential, but he's not there yet. I don't rate Mulgrew as I get the impression that he thinks that he's Bechabaeuer. Souttar is getting there, but he has the odd lapse from time to time.

The aforementioned couldn't lace the boots of Hansen, Miller, McLeish, Hendry, etc. 

Our central defenders are average, if you disagree then I respect your opinion.  

[Texas Pete]

4 minutes ago, Chripper said:

Hendry is in a perpetual daze, his concentration levels are shocking. McKenna has potential, but he's not there yet. I don't rate Mulgrew as I get the impression that he thinks that he's Bechabaeuer. Souttar is getting there, but he has the odd lapse from time to time.

The aforementioned couldn't lace the boots of Hansen, Miller, McLeish, Hendry, etc. 

Our central defenders are average, if you disagree then I respect your opinion.  

I don’t disagree that they have limited ability compared to most of the players you have mentioned. 

What does their intelligence have to do with it though?

Wanting to play a back three so there is someone extra to get in the way of shots and/or opposition strikers is quite silly in my opinion. 

All, or at least most, of the defenders in our squad play in a back 4. This is what they are used to and what they should do when playing for Scotland. 

The only, and I do mean only, reason McLeish has played a back 3 is so he can play Tierney in the same team as Robertson. 

Teams should only play a back 3 if they have good wing backs, which we don’t. 

We do have a fantastic left back though. In fact we have two of them. It’s a pity neither of them is getting to play in that position for Scotland though (except the Portugal game when Tierney wasn’t playing).

[Chripper]

4 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

I don’t disagree that they have limited ability compared to most of the players you have mentioned. 

What does their intelligence have to do with it though?

Wanting to play a back three so there is someone extra to get in the way of shots and/or opposition strikers is quite silly in my opinion. 

All, or at least most, of the defenders in our squad play in a back 4. This is what they are used to and what they should do when playing for Scotland. 

The only, and I do mean only, reason McLeish has played a back 3 is so he can play Tierney in the same team as Robertson. 

Teams should only play a back 3 if they have good wing backs, which we don’t. 

We do have a fantastic left back though. In fact we have two of them. It’s a pity neither of them is getting to play in that position for Scotland though (except the Portugal game when Tierney wasn’t playing).

If you look at the Italian defenders of the bygone era, their intelligence, their movement off the ball and their honed instincts of movement set them apart from every other nation. Baresi, for example, wasn't the biggest or the beefiest, but the way that he saw things before they happened, it was almost mystical. If you look at players like Jack Hendry or Liam Cooper, the amount of times that they are caught off guard, out of position or simply switching off, I'm amazed that they're professionals. I'm using those two as examples, the majority of our defenders are lacking in football IQ. 

Oh, I know, the only reason McLeish is even thinking of 3 at the back because of he has Tierney and Robertson, I think we all know that. It still doesn't mean that I don't think that its the way we should go forward, as it is. I'm adamant that we should at least try to preserve with 3 at the back, and by this I mean one dedicate one qualification campaign to it. I'm not saying it's the magic bullet, but if there's a potential that it could help matters, even by 1% we should try.

I know. Unfortunately we are in a position where we have to play both of them.

[Texas Pete]

37 minutes ago, Chripper said:

If you look at the Italian defenders of the bygone era, their intelligence, their movement off the ball and their honed instincts of movement set them apart from every other nation. Baresi, for example, wasn't the biggest or the beefiest, but the way that he saw things before they happened, it was almost mystical. If you look at players like Jack Hendry or Liam Cooper, the amount of times that they are caught off guard, out of position or simply switching off, I'm amazed that they're professionals. I'm using those two as examples, the majority of our defenders are lacking in football IQ. 

Oh, I know, the only reason McLeish is even thinking of 3 at the back because of he has Tierney and Robertson, I think we all know that. It still doesn't mean that I don't think that its the way we should go forward, as it is. I'm adamant that we should at least try to preserve with 3 at the back, and by this I mean one dedicate one qualification campaign to it. I'm not saying it's the magic bullet, but if there's a potential that it could help matters, even by 1% we should try.

I know. Unfortunately we are in a position where we have to play both of them.

I get what you’re saying but some of the best players I have ever seen have been as thick as pig shit. Paul Gascoigne immediately springs to mind. Even from a Scotland point of view, Barry Ferguson could read a game beautifully and he’s not too bright. Same goes for Scott Brown. I realise these players aren’t defenders but it still applies.

There’s a difference between intelligence and having good football brain and good awareness. 

I really don’t see the benefit in continuing with a back 3. Tierney just isn’t that good as a CB so what’s the point? Get an actual centre back in there. It’s a dangerous position to play someone in that isn’t used to it. Tierney’s impressive OG is evidence of this. Robertson isn’t a great wing back either. McLeish has turned two exciting young players into nervous, average players in one fell swoop.

I would rather Robertson at LB and Tierney at left mid. Why not give that a go? It could work out well. 

[kumnio]

49 minutes ago, Chripper said:

If you look at the Italian defenders of the bygone era, their intelligence, their movement off the ball and their honed instincts of movement set them apart from every other nation.

Unless Baresi, Maldini, Costacurta, Nesta and Cannavaro are coming out of retirement, and have somehow changed their nationality, its a fucking ridiculously stupid comparison. Its almost as daft as comparing them to the current Italian back line, none of whom are even remotely close those names mentioned.

In the last few months, weve seen German defenders look like juniors, Brazils look like statues etc etc

Youre comparing steak with spam, whats the point of doing that, seriously?

[ProudScot]

This thread must be a wind up.

Wales doing the polar opposite of us (and did so tonight without Bale or Ramsey);

Appoint a young manager 

Pick young promising players 

Favour young players with potential ahead of journeymen who in reality are never good enough for international football 

Score goals 

Pick sensible opposition for friendlies 

Qualify

[ceudmilefailte]

13 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

This thread must be a wind up.

Wales doing the polar opposite of us (and did so tonight without Bale or Ramsey);

Appoint a young manager 

Pick young promising players 

Favour young players with potential ahead of journeymen who in reality are never good enough for international football 

Score goals 

Pick sensible opposition for friendlies 

Qualify

And play four at the back like every other team does apart from those living in the 90's

[Malcolm]

10 hours ago, Chripper said:

And someone gets it! Thank you!

Our defenders aren't intelligent, so playing with a three would literally just give us an extra body back there to be in the way.

 

As a full back you are always taught to tuck in and provide cover... so the right back goes out to press the ball... the left back tucks in tomprovide cover to the centre halfs. Simples.   

[Texas Pete]

1 hour ago, ProudScot said:

This thread must be a wind up.

Wales doing the polar opposite of us (and did so tonight without Bale or Ramsey);

Appoint a young manager 

Pick young promising players 

Favour young players with potential ahead of journeymen who in reality are never good enough for international football 

Score goals 

Pick sensible opposition for friendlies 

Qualify

Which young promising players would you pick that McLeish hasn’t?

I don’t think personnel is our problem at the moment. Tactics are the issue. If McLeish can sort those (a big if obviously) then we’re not in as much shit as people are saying. 

[Chripper]

2 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

I get what you’re saying but some of the best players I have ever seen have been as thick as pig shit. Paul Gascoigne immediately springs to mind. Even from a Scotland point of view, Barry Ferguson could read a game beautifully and he’s not too bright. Same goes for Scott Brown. I realise these players aren’t defenders but it still applies.

There’s a difference between intelligence and having good football brain and good awareness. 

I really don’t see the benefit in continuing with a back 3. Tierney just isn’t that good as a CB so what’s the point? Get an actual centre back in there. It’s a dangerous position to play someone in that isn’t used to it. Tierney’s impressive OG is evidence of this. Robertson isn’t a great wing back either. McLeish has turned two exciting young players into nervous, average players in one fell swoop.

I would rather Robertson at LB and Tierney at left mid. Why not give that a go? It could work out well. 

I didn't mean actual intelligence. lol. I meant intelligence of the football pitch. 

Exactly, that's what I was saying, maybe I didn't make it clear. I don't want Maths wizards on the park, just someone who can actually control the ball with as few touches as possible. I'm actually serious, these players train every day at a good level, so why do they freeze when they feel the minimal of pressure? It's absolutely maddening!

Mate, I'd just want to give anything a go. I just want it to work, I'm not bothered what the formation is or who plays where, I'm just sick and tired of us being trounced by everyone. I think as a Scotland fan I'm at my lowest ebb.

[Chripper]

2 hours ago, kumnio said:

Unless Baresi, Maldini, Costacurta, Nesta and Cannavaro are coming out of retirement, and have somehow changed their nationality, its a fucking ridiculously stupid comparison. Its almost as daft as comparing them to the current Italian back line, none of whom are even remotely close those names mentioned.

In the last few months, weve seen German defenders look like juniors, Brazils look like statues etc etc

Youre comparing steak with spam, whats the point of doing that, seriously?

Ummm… Who was I comparing them to? I was listing intelligent defenders. And yes, those were intelligent defenders.

Did you even read my post? 😄

[Chripper]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

 

As a full back you are always taught to tuck in and provide cover... so the right back goes out to press the ball... the left back tucks in tomprovide cover to the centre halfs. Simples.   

Now explain it to McLeish. 😉

[Texas Pete]

17 minutes ago, Chripper said:

I didn't mean actual intelligence. lol. I meant intelligence of the football pitch. 

Exactly, that's what I was saying, maybe I didn't make it clear. I don't want Maths wizards on the park, just someone who can actually control the ball with as few touches as possible. I'm actually serious, these players train every day at a good level, so why do they freeze when they feel the minimal of pressure? It's absolutely maddening!

Mate, I'd just want to give anything a go. I just want it to work, I'm not bothered what the formation is or who plays where, I'm just sick and tired of us being trounced by everyone. I think as a Scotland fan I'm at my lowest ebb.

Yeah I know what you meant but I wouldn’t  call it intelligence. 

Composure is what a lot of our players are lacking. 

The football always seems to be heavier as well when a lot of our players have it compared to when better players have the ball. 

[mrniaboc]

1 hour ago, Texas Pete said:

Which young promising players would you pick that McLeish hasn’t?

I don’t think personnel is our problem at the moment. Tactics are the issue. If McLeish can sort those (a big if obviously) then we’re not in as much shit as people are saying. 

This is one of the most sensible posts I've read since last Thursday night. We've been a lot better with an equal calibre of players in the recent past. We can still beat Albania and Israel if we get the team playing the right tactics. The players are good enough for that. 

From some of the posts you'd think our squad was made up entirely of Kirk Broadfeet. 

Edited October 17, 2018 by mrniaboc

[ProudScot]

9 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

Which young promising players would you pick that McLeish hasn’t?

I don’t think personnel is our problem at the moment. Tactics are the issue. If McLeish can sort those (a big if obviously) then we’re not in as much shit as people are saying. 

Using Wales as the example again;

Pick players who play for Swansea & Cardiff who have played under 10 club games but are young and have potential.

Also any player at any big club, Ethan Ampadu & Harry Wilson for example, are capped without playing senior football at all. 

Players like Mikey Johnston & Glenn Middleton are our examples of the former and players like Billy Gilmour & George Johnston of Liverpool the latter.

Kevin McDonald a good example of a terrible player who seems to now start, at 30, when a young player who would be no worse could be blooded. 

Wales last night had a couple of teenagers with a handful of club games starting in a qualifier away from home & won. They also had none of their star players playing. 

We just can’t help but make the same mistakes over and over and our ‘young’ players are about 27 and have no international experience & to be honest will never be be anything more than average. 

[Texas Pete]

1 hour ago, ProudScot said:

Using Wales as the example again;

Pick players who play for Swansea & Cardiff who have played under 10 club games but are young and have potential.

Also any player at any big club, Ethan Ampadu & Harry Wilson for example, are capped without playing senior football at all. 

Players like Mikey Johnston & Glenn Middleton are our examples of the former and players like Billy Gilmour & George Johnston of Liverpool the latter.

Kevin McDonald a good example of a terrible player who seems to now start, at 30, when a young player who would be no worse could be blooded. 

Wales last night had a couple of teenagers with a handful of club games starting in a qualifier away from home & won. They also had none of their star players playing. 

We just can’t help but make the same mistakes over and over and our ‘young’ players are about 27 and have no international experience & to be honest will never be be anything more than average. 

Naming young Welsh players isn’t relevant to us though. 

Which young Scottish players should be in our squad that McLeish hasn’t selected?

The ones you have mentioned should be  nowhere near the first team yet. 

Are there any realistic options?

Edited October 17, 2018 by Texas Pete