Tartan Army are getting what they deserve

[slasher]

Discuss.

In my opinion the the appointment of McLeish was such a piss take in the manner which it was done there should have been a reaction. A boycott or whatever but too many TA are too wrapped up in their days out or trips away to do anything tangible by way of protest. I'm not having it any more. Away games are out and home games are very much one at a time. It's reached a point where you can't say you are just faithful through whatever. You are being complicit in failure, nepotism and self interest from this point on as far as I'm concerned.

[exile]

18 minutes ago, slasher said:

Discuss.

In my opinion the the appointment of McLeish was such a piss take in the manner which it was done there should have been a reaction. A boycott or whatever but too many TA are too wrapped up in their days out or trips away to do anything tangible by way of protest. I'm not having it any more. Away games are out and home games are very much one at a time. It's reached a point where you can't say you are just faithful through whatever. You are being complicit in failure, nepotism and self interest from this point on as far as I'm concerned.

Didn't the TA travelling support boo the team off the park?

 

 

[slasher]

2 minutes ago, exile said:

Didn't the TA travelling support boo the team off the park?

 

 

If you think that is enough or will make any difference you've not been watching the last 20 years.

[exile]

15 minutes ago, slasher said:

If you think that is enough or will make any difference you've not been watching the last 20 years.

Well I didn't say I thought that would be enough. But I thought you were suggesting the TA were too wrapped up in away trips to do any tangible protest.

I think the problem is there was no easily seen alternative candidate, it was not like choosing between McLeish and some polar opposite (young, not Scottish, progressive, etc etc.)  and the SFA so clearly making the "wrong" choice as to be a piss take. 

I think it would be difficult to organise anything like you say to make a noticeable difference. You say yourself you will still go to some home games. 

The only thing would be people increasingly voting with their feet, losing interest in international football totally, by which time it would be too late.  

Or picketing SFA HQ? But you'd have to have a clear goal, a viable alternative course for them to take. It couldn't just be 'down with this sort of thing'

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by exile

[slasher]

4 minutes ago, exile said:

Well I didn't say I thought that would be enough. But I thought you were suggesting the TA were too wrapped up in away trips to do any tangible protest.

I think the problem is there was no easily seen alternative candidate, it was not like choosing between McLeish and some polar opposite (young, not Scottish, progressive, etc etc.)  and the SFA so clearly making the "wrong" choice as to be a piss take. 

I think it would be difficult to organise anything like you say to make a noticeable difference. You say yourself you will still go to some home games. 

The only thing would be people increasingly voting with their feet, losing interest in international football totally, by which time it would be too late.  

Or picketing SFA HQ? But you'd have to have a clear goal, a viable alternative course for them to take. It couldn't just be 'down with this sort of thing'

 

Sorry bud but you're either being very generous to the powers that be or you're thick as fuck? The minute Regan was out the door there was an unseemly rush by McRae etc to appoint their buddy Eck before a chief executive who would surely have had a issue with appointing a serial failure as a manager and an obvious Jake ball to boot!😵

[slasher]

10 minutes ago, exile said:

Well I didn't say I thought that would be enough. But I thought you were suggesting the TA were too wrapped up in away trips to do any tangible protest.

I think the problem is there was no easily seen alternative candidate, it was not like choosing between McLeish and some polar opposite (young, not Scottish, progressive, etc etc.)  and the SFA so clearly making the "wrong" choice as to be a piss take. 

I think it would be difficult to organise anything like you say to make a noticeable difference. You say yourself you will still go to some home games. 

The only thing would be people increasingly voting with their feet, losing interest in international football totally, by which time it would be too late.  

Or picketing SFA HQ? But you'd have to have a clear goal, a viable alternative course for them to take. It couldn't just be 'down with this sort of thing'

 

To be fair you make a good point. Who speaks for the TA? It's such a broad church it's difficult to know where to begin and it's doubtful anyone would agree on anything. How typically Scottish! 😥

[Ormond]

Slasher is so fucking correct. We need to take a huge chunk of the blame for allowing this tripe to continue for 20-30 years. 

[slasher]

I still can't believe there were people actually defending the appointment of McLeish on here but even beyond that the lack of scrutiny from the media is incredible! Are they all too afraid to say publicly what we can all see?

Bottom line is enough is enough.....or you can all bend over for another however many years and take it!

[PASTA Mick]

6 hours ago, slasher said:

Discuss.

In my opinion the the appointment of McLeish was such a piss take in the manner which it was done there should have been a reaction. A boycott or whatever but too many TA are too wrapped up in their days out or trips away to do anything tangible by way of protest. I'm not having it any more. Away games are out and home games are very much one at a time. It's reached a point where you can't say you are just faithful through whatever. You are being complicit in failure, nepotism and self interest from this point on as far as I'm concerned.

I think there has been a reaction...have you seen the crowds?!

There hasn't been any official boycott but the drop in SSC members and the attendances will have been noticed. Add in the bad results and McLeish is under pressure.

I think most of us will have seen the huge increase in marketing of matches by the SFA recently. Unfortunately their product is broken and targeted marketing won't change that. 

There is a real chance that we will part-host Euro 2020 without being there. If we don't win our Nations League group then we won't have a second chance play-off and we will probably be a 4th seed for the main draw. 

I think they need to act now and in a manager that is underperforming and was not wanted by the fans. They need to do it before the double header next month. 

Hosting England at Hampden against another European nation should be giving the SFA sleepless nights. That would be the lowest of the low for Scottish football. 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by PASTA Mick

[Rolling hIlls]

I thinkbwe reacting badly and i agree with slashers comments to an extent. It absolutley hurts. Wembley 96 i thought i would never go back. It worse than my divorce! I cant blame the tartan army though for paying all that money and enjoying the time. I did it for 30 years. But it takes its toll on your sanity. I was just saying that go fidel castro in rs mcolls earlier.

[Rolling hIlls]

He is a good guy

[Return of Yermaw]

I posted this in another thread which echoes the OPs views: 

I can't think of any country that would put up with a football association like ours for so long:

-  abject managerial appointment after appointment throughout all levels - either through cronyism, ineptitude, insularity or a combination of all three;

- the appointment of Malky Mackay as Performance Director - his career nose dive seemingly made him an ideal candidate for such a position; his apparent racist, sexist and homophonic views not considered a hindrance in any shape or form;

- the handling of the national stadium issue and the extension to make a decision on something they had deliberated on for years before announcing what everyone knew would be the case;; 

There are countless other issues that can be cited. Yet, nothing ever changes, no overhaul or re-structuring takes place - the same types of persons are appointed time and time again to govern our game. And the Scottish footballing public just continue to lap it up albeit now, in significantly smaller numbers. McLeish is the latest of abject appointments and it is clear to all sane minded persons that we will not quality for 2020, either through the Nations League or through the normal qualifying route. And perhaps to make matters worse is that any arguable progress made in the second lap of Strachan's tenure has now been all but lost and we will regress even more before McLeish is relieved of his position. And then the SFA will use their same approach to appoint the next guy......ad finitum...... 

[Brassrubber]

Bang on  too many of the tartan tourists would rather miss the match than a Tam or Ted gig so they can dance with each other and sing proclaimers songs 

the Self-interst Football Association wont change unfortunately 

[teecee-]

 

10 minutes ago, Brassrubber said:

Bang on  too many of the tartan tourists would rather miss the match than a Tam or Ted gig so they can dance with each other and sing proclaimers songs 

the Self-interst Football Association wont change unfortunately 

I can assure you  the Scotland fans didn't hold back in Israel and most where fairly sober. Now this has happened the manager and players are  aware that lack of effort will not be tolerated. Tartan Tourists and Happy Clappers do exist but so do passionate fans who take defeat hard.

[Rolling hIlls]

5 minutes ago, teecee- said:

 

I can assure you  the Scotland fans didn't hold back in Israel and most where fairly sober. Now this has happened the manager and players are  aware that lack of effort will not be tolerated. Tartan Tourists and Happy Clappers do exist but so do passionate fans who take defeat hard.

Correct. 

[exile]

8 hours ago, slasher said:

Sorry bud but you're either being very generous to the powers that be or you're thick as fuck? The minute Regan was out the door there was an unseemly rush by McRae etc to appoint their buddy Eck before a chief executive who would surely have had a issue with appointing a serial failure as a manager and an obvious Jake ball to boot!😵

 Could be both. But I am trying to be realistic: people can be apathetic - but need a specific cause or focus to rally round, a specific outcome to target. 

"Strachan in" is more likely to concentrate the mind than "Levein out"

[exile]

I think an active boycott would need to not be just a disappearing act but a positive demonstration of something else. So instead of attending a Scotland match, the TA turned up at something else, that is usually less well attended. Like under 21s or women's or some other game or occasion, where it was clear that an unusually large crowd had come from somewhere, but was not at the main game. Then you could still be supporting Scotland and not turning back on the/a national team but boycotting a specific fixture. You might say turning up for U21s or womens would still be endorsing a SFA fixture, but the point would be not literally to prevent a penny going their way, but to demonstrate something visible and non accidental (but still positive to the Scotland cause) to show the fans have not just melted away, but still there, but being selective. But more noticeable than just not turning up as some games.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by exile

[Rolling hIlls]

Is it just me? Strachan and mcleish. Souness. We have great minds in football. But we are run by administrators in blazers. I used to bump in to wee phileas fogg mcginn on trips abroad. He knew nothing about football but got his free trips and a blazer. While the rest of us paid. That is what is wrong. Not mcleish or strachan.

[stewarty66]

Phileas Fogg McGinn? 

He is a good guy. 

[Alan]

There is a good point in this thread from the OP.  Limited threads on here about football with more on travel and "who did you meet?".  More and more not going to club games and treating internationals like a rugby boys day out.  If you act like a joke then you get treated like one.

[Chripper]

When club sides are run badly there are usually picketing and demonstrations by the fans, why should it be any different for an international team? This Scotland situations means more to one of us than the entire board of the SFA, so why can't we arrange a demonstration? I'm not saying that we should storm the offices of Hampdem (That'll be Plan B), but we should at least be able to organize something in order to get our voices heard.

Apparently I've jeopardized my SSC membership by unmasking McCrae as the board members that was allegedly laughing at the Tartan Army, so it's clear that I want those a-holes out of their roles, no matter the cost! 

Time's up. (Forgive me for stealing that from another group)

[exile]

We need clarity about objectives, and what can actually be done.

I'm not sure what good it does to simply slag off sections of the support, as if they are part of the problem, rather than the SFA.

Or if seriously 'tartan tourists' are the problem then let's really look at that. Is there really such a correlation between supporters and results? International football (and cup finals etc) surely attracts a greater proportion of 'daytrippers' - but surely that goes for successful countries too: don't we find brass bands and dancing samba fans in successful footballing nations? Or has Brazil gone downhill because too much samba? 

I wish the problem was as easy as fixing the supporters. But if we could, what would we actually do? Boycott games? Ban tartan? Only sing when winning?

 

 

[exile]

Don't get me wrong. When some teams come to Hampden they seem to have a small tightly knit group of hardcore supporters, maybe more like a club feel, not so much national dress or so many different kinds of flags and feathers and so on, just the basics, the colours, replica tops, focused on the sport, and so on. Or so it seems. And they are vocal and get behind their team. And sometimes it works and they get points off us. And I can imagine people thinking 'couldn't we be more like them?' Well of course I'd take that if it meant we got the points and success at tournaments. But how to get from there to there?

Edited October 14, 2018 by exile

[mrniaboc]

I totally understand the sentiment of the op and the agreeing comments to follow, but I also think it's slightly unfair to blame the TA as being complicit for two reasons:

1) The TA isn't really an organised army with a single missions and well-defined orders. It would be almost impossible to get all people who want the Scotland team to win to protest and rise up against the SFA. 

2) When it comes down to it we're there to support a team of Scottish lads who are gonna take the pitch and try their hardest to win a game of football for us, themselves, and their country. I can guarantee the SFA are not in their minds at that point in time, and it's hard not to give those lads our support. They need us, and we need them. That's why we do what we do! 

[slasher]

On 10/14/2018 at 5:09 AM, teecee- said:

 

I can assure you  the Scotland fans didn't hold back in Israel and most where fairly sober. Now this has happened the manager and players are  aware that lack of effort will not be tolerated. Tartan Tourists and Happy Clappers do exist but so do passionate fans who take defeat hard.

I've been there mate, done it. We need to stop going sadly, or nothing will change. 

Edited October 17, 2018 by slasher