Israel Match Thread (11/10/2018)

[RenfrewBlue]

21 minutes ago, Bino's said:

The Israeli were strolling past him all game

Including in the first half when everyone hadn't yet got out on their feet

And he does look overweight

Why single out Mcdonald? 

Mc Ginn and McGregor were equally as useless. 

For me Mcdonald isn't mobile enough but he wasn't the worst performer in our midfield. He's just the scapegoat for those who don't understand the game. 

[TDYER63]

Blaming the heat was ridiculous, the conditions were fantastic albeit the game was at 9.45 pm. This should not affect professional footballers though. 

We were absolutely honking. Their wingers were often strollling down the sidelines, not even on the pitch, just nipping in when they needed to. They knew what we were doing more than we did. 

McLeish looked like he had no ideas and totally out his depth. And whilst I dont want to restart the happy clapper saga, who the fook was actually clapping that performance at the end ?  I could not believe what I was hearing.  We were fckin woeful.    

[Bino's]

2 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Why single out Mcdonald? 

Mc Ginn and McGregor were equally as useless. 

For me Mcdonald isn't mobile enough but he wasn't the worst performer in our midfield. He's just the scapegoat for those who don't understand the game. 

Sorry, who was worse than him

He's as slow as a week in the jail and offers nothing

Whythough away from home we were playing two up top and not another man in midfield I don't know

[Bino's]

3 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Blaming the heat was ridiculous, the conditions were fantastic albeit the game was at 9.45 pm. This should not affect professional footballers though. 

We were absolutely honking. Their wingers were often strollling down the sidelines, not even on the pitch, just nipping in when they needed to. They knew what we were doing more than we did. 

McLeish looked like he had no ideas and totally out his depth. And whilst I dont want to restart the happy clapper saga, who the fook was actually clapping that performance at the end ?  I could not believe what I was hearing.  We were fckin woeful.    

It effected our lot big time

John soutter had a red puss even in the first half

O'Donnell was gone by 50 mins, just before souttars sending off he was looking to the bench, he wanted out of there

[Rolling hIlls]

2 minutes ago, Bino's said:

Sorry, who was worse than him

He's as slow as a week in the jail and offers nothing

Whythough away from home we were playing two up top and not another man in midfield I don't know

Because you never played maybe?  If you think we cannot play against the 94th team without two strikers ??  The team did not perform well.  McLeish has had detracors before.  He will come back despite all the allegations on here.

[Rolling hIlls]

That should have read de-tractors for al my friends in the North East.

[Bino's]

6 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Because you never played maybe?  If you think we cannot play against the 94th team without two strikers ??  The team did not perform well.  McLeish has had detracors before.  He will come back despite all the allegations on here.

So all the other managers globally who play one up front especially away from home

It's because they've never played

What are you talking about

We looked light in the middle of the park all game

 

[Rolling hIlls]

All the other managers who go to win a game.  McLeish tried and the players let him down.  Even neismith tells you that.  Or don't you belive him either?

[Bino's]

1 minute ago, Rolling hIlls said:

All the other managers who go to win a game.  McLeish tried and the players let him down.  Even neismith tells you that.  Or don't you belive him either?

Name another side in international football who's played 2 up front away from home

Not a three with a couple of midfielders

But 2 strikers

If it's cause he thinks Naismith doesn't work in a one, don't play him

Play someone else

[Orraloon]

14 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

We had Duncan Shearer, Darren Jackson and Billy Dodds up front for much of those campaigns. That may have been an incentive to play fewer strikers and more defenders. In one of those campaigns we had a very easy group.  

Duncan Shearer only got a handful of games for Scotland. He was in the squad a lot but didn't get many games. 

[TDYER63]

27 minutes ago, Bino's said:

It effected our lot big time

John soutter had a red puss even in the first half

O'Donnell was gone by 50 mins, just before souttars sending off he was looking to the bench, he wanted out of there

Well I would need to question their fitness . I could understand a 3 pm kick off but not in the conditions at night. And we were shite right from the start , its not like we started strong and fell away. 

That said, having no time at all to acclimatise was a massive error. 

[Rolling hIlls]

Just now, Bino's said:

Name another side in international football who's played 2 up front away from home

Not a three with a couple of midfielders

But 2 strikers

If it's cause he thinks Naismith doesn't work in a one, don't play him

Play someone else

Israel. Now go back to your corn flakes and try harder.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/israel-vs-scotland/teams/399740

[macy37]

52 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

McDonald is fat, slow and way off international level.

He’s about as good a player as McLeish is a manager.

Nail on head. The fact we are even entertaining him tells us exactly where we are as does the fact some supporters feel he was solid.  Fuck me, solid? Jesus.

[Rolling hIlls]

6 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Israel. Now go back to your corn flakes and try harder.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/israel-vs-scotland/teams/399740

U said away from home!! Sorry. Thats because i am on a different whisky!! Apologies. But surely u would play against a supposedly weak side with 2 strikers? We are scotland. We should be used to it now. Anyway i am away for a dram in the hebrides.

[Orraloon]

13 hours ago, exile said:

OK, I see what you mean. But I thought this time they were seemingly particularly bad, useless throughout. Still can't work out why that bad.

You seem to be ignoring the most obvious difference between the two games. One was at home the other was away. It has always baffled me why teams tend to get better results, and performances, at home than they do away from home. There shouldn't be that much difference really and I don't know why it should be that way. But the statistics back it up. especially for average teams like ourselves. If we could consistently win (or even draw) away from home we wouldn't be ranked where we are, and we wouldn't be playing these other average teams. We would be up with the big boys in Leagues A and B.

We will beat Israel at Hampden.

 

 

[Rolling hIlls]

2 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

You seem to be ignoring the most obvious difference between the two games. One was at home the other was away. It has always baffled me why teams tend to get better results, and performances, at home than they do away from home. There shouldn't be that much difference really and I don't know why it should be that way. But the statistics back it up. especially for average teams like ourselves. If we could consistently win (or even draw) away from home we wouldn't be ranked where we are, and we wouldn't be playing these other average teams. We would be up with the big boys in Leagues A and B.

We will beat Israel at Hampden.

 

 

good post.  some positivity at last.  bring it on.  And we will beat portugal tomorrow.  they are hopeless and wont play with any strikers likely 🍸

[Ormond]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

Blaming the heat was ridiculous, the conditions were fantastic albeit the game was at 9.45 pm. This should not affect professional footballers though. 

Aye, fantastic conditions for you to go on a Jager fest I seen with my mucker after the gemme ya wee Jakey. 😄 

He was telling me yesterday.

[Caledonian Craig]

I think it is now clear that the 3-5-2 system just does not work. We have to go back to either 4-4-2 or try a 4-5-1 and that being the case McLeish has to choose between Robertson and Tierney on who makes the side and I'd go for Robertson. Both are left-backs who like to attack and if we even tried Robertson on left wing ahead of Tierney it would now work.

We were utterly and depressingly shambolic on Thursday. Only Allan McGregor can hold his head high as without him we would have been hammered by a team who had not won a match for over a year. Really tough kick in the nuts considering the wee boost after the Albania match.

[ceudmilefailte]

3 hours ago, bazmidd said:

This whole chat we are having now about different formations and systems all stems from how we bring our players through and the way we teach them to play football. We really shouldn't even be having this argument as everyone should know the way Scotland play our style and formations. At the present time this is evident only in our youth sides who have been completely revamped and taught to play in a certain style and to play in a certain way. They don't change for anyone. Against Spain, England, France, Holland whoever it is 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. They pass the ball the play on the front foot, they are in the faces of the opposition. We are trying to introduce our style through our youth teams now playing in this way. Formations aren't even discussed at youth level, they just know it will be 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 and they know exactly what their job is and how they are expected to play. So with this style and identity being introduced in our youth sides, it is absolutely criminal the senior side are doing the complete opposite. What the hell are these young players we are teaching to do one thing meant to think when they do excellent things playing this way at youth level, taught for years this is now the Scotland Way, only to come into the seniors and everything is arse for tit, and the manager at the top doesn't even have a scooby doo what formation or system he's playing. Spain have a style, Holland have a Style Germany have a Style, Croatia have a style, why the hell do we change what our youth sides do when we get to senior level! It shouldn't even be a discussion. Okay all formations can be tweaked etc but to completely deviate away from the way we are teaching our youth sides to play football is just insane especially when right now we have a team with 5 or 6 U21 players who could potentially start for the national team. We have to trust in the style and systems we have introduced at youth level and implement them at seniors or what is the point in any of the structure we have built up in recent years at youth level. Things have improved massively from U17s to U21s it is actually great watching these Scotland sides play. Ok we don't win every game but you know what you are going to get. They try and attack, play the right way play with heart. We are teaching these guys these things so they will in turn play that way for Scotland in future. So keep the seniors completely in line with what they are doing at youth level and trust in what we are doing or nothing will ever change for the better

Spot on, and add on the fact none of them play that formation at club level either and it explains how you can make a group of half decent players look like headless chickens.

3 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

 

How you can possibly say we should be beating Israel and Albania no problem is beyond me. What factual evidence do you have for this? 

 

Losing is one thing, we didn't just lose we got ripped to pieces that s why so many on here are quite rightly upset.We should be able to compete, maybe we should just call it an off night

[Ian_86]

2 hours ago, Bino's said:

The Israeli were strolling past him all game

Including in the first half when everyone hadn't yet got out on their feet

And he does look overweight

The danger was all from their wings. Israel defensive players were pinging it beyond Robo and O Donnell at will and then they were in. It seemed obvious to me we needed to have proper full backs. Mcleish doesn't seem to have a plan B at the minute which we really need.

[daviebee]

15 minutes ago, Ian_86 said:

The danger was all from their wings. Israel defensive players were pinging it beyond Robo and O Donnell at will and then they were in. It seemed obvious to me we needed to have proper full backs. Mcleish doesn't seem to have a plan B at the minute which we really need.

What's his plan A?

[Chripper]

45 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I think it is now clear that the 3-5-2 system just does not work. We have to go back to either 4-4-2 or try a 4-5-1 and that being the case McLeish has to choose between Robertson and Tierney on who makes the side and I'd go for Robertson. Both are left-backs who like to attack and if we even tried Robertson on left wing ahead of Tierney it would now work.

We were utterly and depressingly shambolic on Thursday. Only Allan McGregor can hold his head high as without him we would have been hammered by a team who had not won a match for over a year. Really tough kick in the nuts considering the wee boost after the Albania match.

We've been doing that (as well as 4-2-3-1) for 20 years with no success. Typical Scottish attitude, "don't try something new, I'm too scared to!"

I never heard anyone say after a drubbing (whilst playing a 4-4-2, 4-5-1 or a 4-2-3-1) that we should try a 3-5-2, no, people just wanted to continue doing the same thing that failed.

We should be playing with 3-5-2 for at least 4 years and see if they get used to it, as we've played 4 at the back for 20 years and they sure as hell can't do that.

The shambles on Thursday has nothing to do with the formation or the tactics or even the managers, the players were simply shocking. 

[daviebee]

3 minutes ago, Chripper said:

We've been doing that (as well as 4-2-3-1) for 20 years with no success. Typical Scottish attitude, "don't try something new, I'm too scared to!"

I never heard anyone say after a drubbing (whilst playing a 4-4-2, 4-5-1 or a 4-2-3-1) that we should try a 3-5-2, no, people just wanted to continue doing the same thing that failed.

We should be playing with 3-5-2 for at least 4 years and see if they get used to it, as we've played 4 at the back for 20 years and they sure as hell can't do that.

The shambles on Thursday has nothing to do with the formation or the tactics or even the managers, the players were simply shocking. 

Sorry, but that last sentence is complete and utter tripe, apart from the bit at the end.

[Chripper]

So, if we played with a 4-4-2, with the players being simply shocking, we would've gotten something from the match?

Explain how.

[kumnio]

We should be beating Israel home and away, they are ranked 60ish places below us in the world rankings, they had only won something like 1 out of their last 10 home games. Its not arrogance, ignorance, or anything else, but the game should not have been in question. While we not be very good, we are significantly better than Israel.

We have hired an absolute disaster of a manager, people describing him as a winner etc are out of touch, he has been an abject utter failure since 2010, he has almost a decade of being terrible, he speaks like a fucking moron, he talks in idiotic soundbites, and rolls out every dumbass cliche known to the footballing man.

The fact that the SFA appointed him without even looking for anyone else was a pathetic shambles. We went from Michael O'Neill to Alex McLeish, the first name I can understand, although by no means did I support it, the second name is beyond belief. We may not have had the finances to attract the worlds best, but we didnt even try, we settled for him, really!!