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Squirrelhumper

Scottish Born Players

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10 out the 11 starting last night were Scottish Born.

Other was Tierney who was born on Isle of Man after his parents moved there for work but he's lived here most his life.

I think that showed on the pitch, the players looked like they actually wanted to be there and not there to boost their CV.

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7 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

10 out the 11 starting last night were Scottish Born.

Other was Tierney who was born on Isle of Man after his parents moved there for work but he's lived here most his life.

I think that showed on the pitch, the players looked like they actually wanted to be there and not there to boost their CV.

It’s ok, I’m sure Matt Phillips will be back leading the line for Israel away 🤔

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I would say the stand out players were the Scottish based ones. Real positive for Scottish football

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2 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

10 out the 11 starting last night were Scottish Born.

Other was Tierney who was born on Isle of Man after his parents moved there for work but he's lived here most his life.

I think that showed on the pitch, the players looked like they actually wanted to be there and not there to boost their CV.

This was also the case on Friday and we got absolutely scudded 4-0.

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Always a bit insulted by these kind of posts.

I wasn't born within the border, but with Scottish parentage and growing up with Scotland as my country, the idea that of which side of a line you fell out of your mum is a determining factor is not only stupid, but kind of offensive. You don't care more than me because of the location of your birth.

Sure there will be players who are in it for the status.. I'd propose Ritchie as one given that he said himself he'd never been to Scotland before he turned up for an international. But for the vast majority of non-domestically born Scots, we'd give everything for the nation to do well.

As with most things, generalisations aren't helpful, so I'd thank you not to do it.

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6 minutes ago, Mox said:

This was also the case on Friday and we got absolutely scudded 4-0.

True, we won't be the only team to get scudded 4-0 off Belgium though, particularly in a friendly.

To be honest with you, I think lesson's were learned from that game and it was reflected in the team selection.

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2 minutes ago, andyD said:

Always a bit insulted by these kind of posts.

I wasn't born within the border, but with Scottish parentage and growing up with Scotland as my country, the idea that of which side of a line you fell out of your mum is a determining factor is not only stupid, but kind of offensive. You don't care more than me because of the location of your birth.

Sure there will be players who are in it for the status.. I'd propose Ritchie as one given that he said himself he'd never been to Scotland before he turned up for an international. But for the vast majority of non-domestically born Scots, we'd give everything for the nation to do well.

As with most things, generalisations aren't helpful, so I'd thank you not to do it.

I have no issues with guys like McTominary/Hutchinson et al who clearly want to play for us. As you've said, guys like Richie couldn't care less and it's reflected on the park.

Others might disagree but I like seeing 11 players on the park with an actual connection with Scotland not some tedious bloodline that enables them to use it as a career tool.

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Although some English born players seem like they can’t be arsed when playing for Scotland we have had some whose passion was never in doubt. Stuart McCall and Don Hutchison come to mind. Even Andy Goram before his strop at France 98. 

Guys like Ritchie, Kris Commons and Phil Bardsley always seemed to me to have a take it or leave it attitude to international football and we can do without guys like that. One of the reasons we punched above our weight for years in terms of qualifying for tournaments was our players’ passion for representing their country. 

I suppose it comes down to whether people actually identify as being Scottish or not, rather than where they were born.

To be fair there have been some Scottish born players who I suspect didn’t give a shit about playing for Scotland either. 

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6 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

True, we won't be the only team to get scudded 4-0 off Belgium though, particularly in a friendly.

To be honest with you, I think lesson's were learned from that game and it was reflected in the team selection.

Pretty sure we aren't the only team capable of beating Albania 2-0 either. I don't think it really goes to prove we are the master race. 

Agree that MacLeish got this right and it might get us though to the euros via the nations league. Biut I can't see us being very competitive

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Although some English born players seem like they can’t be arsed when playing for Scotland we have had some whose passion was never in doubt. Stuart McCall and Don Hutchison come to mind. Even Andy Goram before his strop at France 98. 

Guys like Ritchie, Kris Commons and Phil Bardsley always seemed to me to have a take it or leave it attitude to international football and we can do without guys like that. One of the reasons we punched above our weight for years in terms of qualifying for tournaments was our players’ passion for representing their country. 

 

That's my point, Hutch/McCall saw themselves as Scottish as their parent(s) were.

Commons, Richie & Bardsley have tedious links and it just devalues the honour of playing for your country when folk who have the most tedious of links get caps. I don't care if it's within the rules or not.

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31 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

That's my point, Hutch/McCall saw themselves as Scottish as their parent(s) were. 

Commons, Richie & Bardsley have tedious links and it just devalues the honour of playing for your country when folk who have the most tedious of links get caps. I don't care if it's within the rules or not.

So you've just contradicted your original post. So can we stop this 'born' conversation before it starts next time?

It's not for you to decide who feels Scottish, and to suggest that 'non-native' Scots don't try as hard is insulting and stupid.

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1 hour ago, andyD said:

Always a bit insulted by these kind of posts.

I wasn't born within the border, but with Scottish parentage and growing up with Scotland as my country, the idea that of which side of a line you fell out of your mum is a determining factor is not only stupid, but kind of offensive. You don't care more than me because of the location of your birth.

Sure there will be players who are in it for the status.. I'd propose Ritchie as one given that he said himself he'd never been to Scotland before he turned up for an international. But for the vast majority of non-domestically born Scots, we'd give everything for the nation to do well.

As with most things, generalisations aren't helpful, so I'd thank you not to do it.

I wouldn't deign to speak for 'humper but i think this thread would be better entitled "Scottish players". 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, andyD said:

So you've just contradicted your original post. So can we stop this 'born' conversation before it starts next time?

It's not for you to decide who feels Scottish, and to suggest that 'non-native' Scots don't try as hard is insulting and stupid.

I 100% agree and take huge offence at the original post. Born and raised in England but representing my country would have been something I would have considered the high point of my life. 

We live in a society that is changing rapidly but Scots have always had a mix within them and have moved across the world. 

There may well be English-born players who have spotted an opportunity but what gives you the right to decide who is and isn't Scottish?

I tell you what, the shit I got at school the day after that Costa Rica game is enough for me to be certain of what I am. 😋

We're all Scotland's story and We're all worth the same.

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16 minutes ago, SkyBlueScot said:

 

There may well be English-born players who have spotted an opportunity but what gives you the right to decide who is and isn't Scottish?

 

Nothing but you are kidding yourself on if you think the likes of Bardsley, Phillips, Commons or Richie gave a shit about Scotland in any shape or form until they were too shite to play for England and we represented a chance for them to play international football. Just so happens their grandparents came from there (or in Bardsley's case your dad was born there whilst on holiday!)

Grandparent rule is a load of nonsense and I make no apologies for wanting us to use it less. Scot's born to Scottish parents down south are different and I've no issues with that. My granddad was Italian, I'd have had zero interest in playing for Italy though if I was good enough.

Edited by Squirrelhumper

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13 minutes ago, SkyBlueScot said:

I 100% agree and take huge offence at the original post. Born and raised in England but representing my country would have been something I would have considered the high point of my life. 

I doubt any offence was intended.

He’s talking about guys who don’t and never have considered themselves Scottish until the chance of international football on their CV arose.

As you guys rightly say, you don’t have to be born and raised in Scotland to be able to consider yourself Scottish.

We are talking about English players who were only playing for Scotland too boost their CV as they weren’t good enough for England.

Maybe just a poor choice of words in the OP.

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10 minutes ago, SkyBlueScot said:

I 100% agree and take huge offence at the original post. Born and raised in England but representing my country would have been something I would have considered the high point of my life. 

We live in a society that is changing rapidly but Scots have always had a mix within them and have moved across the world. 

There may well be English-born players who have spotted an opportunity but what gives you the right to decide who is and isn't Scottish?

I tell you what, the shit I got at school the day after that Costa Rica game is enough for me to be certain of what I am. 😋

We're all Scotland's story and We're all worth the same.

In fairness to the squirrel fornicator, there is a difference between Scottish people who happen to be born outside of Scotland and English people who had a Scottish granny and agree to play for Scotland because they’re not good enough for England and want to add international football to their CV. 

If I was the Scotland manager and was considering calling up someone born and raised outside of Scotland I would probably ask them if they felt Scottish. They could lie of course and we could be disadvantaging ourselves as I suppose people who don’t feel Scottish could still do well for us. Should they be playing for Scotland if they don’t feel Scottish though?

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8 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

I doubt any offence was intended.

He’s talking about guys who don’t and never have considered themselves Scottish until the chance of international football on their CV arose.

As you guys rightly say, you don’t have to be born and raised in Scotland to be able to consider yourself Scottish.

We are talking about English players who were only playing for Scotland too boost their CV as they weren’t good enough for England.

Maybe just a poor choice of words in the OP.

It was, no offence was meant (unless you support Scotland cos your granny is from there)

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4 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Should they be playing for Scotland if they don’t feel Scottish though?

No but others will disagree.

Some just want success at all costs, I'd rather have a team that want to play for the shirt.

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It would be interesting to hear what ex players think on this. Not really heard any of the ones who would be questionable speak about it, I’m sure some must have.

I suppose you could be English, have supported England and feel English but get the opportunity to play for Scotland and be very proud to do so...

I think we can all agree on one thing, Matt Ritchie couldn’t give a flying fuck about Scotland.

 

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8 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

 

I think we can all agree on one thing, Matt Ritchie couldn’t give a flying fuck about Scotland.

 

Thankfully I don't think he'll ever wear the shirt again.

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there are a lot of people born elsewhere that are as Scottish as they come.  

Obviously it's a tough one in a world where parents work abroad etc.

I think it does make a difference when the players had their first and biggest affinity to Scotland but simply being born here doesn't mean that.

 

The CV ones i would boot out too.  Hard to know when it's the case though.

Edited by PapofGlencoe

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I'm born and raised in England (still live here), but I get what SH is saying. Let's not kid ourselves that all the Anglos have come up as a pride thing, some have come as it's a great way of improving their contract/transfer fee. I would say the vast majority are professional when it comes to playing for us, but I would say it's a minority that play for Scottish pride. Off the top of my head, the ones that would fall into that category over the past 25 years would be Hutch, Alexander, McCall.

Edited by Bobby Russell's Lovechild

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