Belgium Match Thread (07/09/2018)

[borojock]

3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I am not sure about the formation either but there are those that think this formation is the only way to get Tierney and Robertson into the side. I am not sure it was the formation that cost us goals - more the sloppy errors cost us. I get the impression as well that Griffiths needs a strike partner - someone to feed off or play in. He was far too isolated last night.

The thing that i most depressing for me is that no matter when/if McLeish goes it is the same incompetent fuckwits doing the hiring. I await the next manager being another dud.

I agree i would keep the same formation and pretty much the same players 

I'd change the style McLeish was talking about playing a passing style game we dont have the players or quality for that kind of game, i'd try and be much more direct and wouldnt be aiming at playing the ball from the back. 

[PASTA Mick]

1 minute ago, Third Lanark said:

I presume you think that Tierney and Robertson should both be in the team? If so then there is no alternative but a back 3. Playing Tierney at RB would be even more out of position.As McLeish says modern players should be  reasonably versatile. McGregor just behind Griff is not really out of position I would think; Armstrong not out of position. OK maybe Fraser though he has played there. Who else for right wing back? Sad truth most of us would have picked 8 of those players - only goal, RB and defensive mid are debatable.

At least with KT at RB, it would be just 1 player out of position. It would keep one of our best players in the team in a position we don't have any quality options. 

Player-wise I'd have picked 10 of that 11. I'd have had Forrest instead of McDonald. The formation / tactics would have been very different. 

[Caledonian Craig]

In any case Monday's match is what counts. It is imperative we win that match now - if not the pressure will begin to build to a new level on McLeish.

[Third Lanark]

1 minute ago, PASTA Mick said:

At least with KT at RB, it would be just 1 player out of position. It would keep one of our best players in the team in a position we don't have any quality options. 

Player-wise I'd have picked 10 of that 11. I'd have had Forrest instead of McDonald. The formation / tactics would have been very different. 

You don't like the back 3 I get that. I thought KT did ok at CB though. Many teams now play with a back 3. England got to the semis with that system because they don't have many creative midfielders. MF is our strongest area and I think McLeish was just trying to reflect that with 5 in MF. Wouldn't mind Forrest at wing back think he's played for Celtic there; at right wing he has failed to impress too often. We'll need pace against Albania though.

[PASTA Mick]

5 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

You don't like the back 3 I get that. I thought KT did ok at CB though. Many teams now play with a back 3. England got to the semis with that system because they don't have many creative midfielders. MF is our strongest area and I think McLeish was just trying to reflect that with 5 in MF. Wouldn't mind Forrest at wing back think he's played for Celtic there; at right wing he has failed to impress too often. We'll need pace against Albania though.

KT did fine last night. He'd do fine in most positions. 

We can't try and copy England. We only have 2 players that would get in their team - and they both play the same position. 

Forrest and Fraser need to be playing in the final third and supporting Griffiths. They can both help us count attack at pace and stretch the game. Both win loads of free-kicks too which is useful with Griffiths and Mulgrew in the team. 

4-5-1 / 4-3-3 also keeps Robertson in his best position. We can play any three of our 6 decent centre-midfielders, depending on who we are up against. 

[Rolling hIlls]

Monday is the acid test. I think we will be fine. Good players in there. Need mcgregor though. I love craig gordon but at this moment mcgregor is in form.

[Caledonian Craig]

16 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Monday is the acid test. I think we will be fine. Good players in there. Need mcgregor though. I love craig gordon but at this moment mcgregor is in form.

I definitely agree now with regards to McGregor.

[macy37]

3 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

 

 

Get off your high horse you two. My post was really aimed at one person, the one who continues to post about the manager allegedly being an alcoholic. 

I’ll leave the alky part off then and simply state what an absolute abortion of an appointment he is then. A man who’s out of touch and isn’t anywhere near up to the job.

He shouldn’t be anywhere near the post yet many still want to give him and the clowns who appointed him time. It’s time we don’t have and will waste (once again) if we don’t get rid.

[Caledonian Craig]

32 minutes ago, macy37 said:

I’ll leave the alky part off then and simply state what an absolute abortion of an appointment he is then. A man who’s out of touch and isn’t anywhere near up to the job.

He shouldn’t be anywhere near the post yet many still want to give him and the clowns who appointed him time. It’s time we don’t have and will waste (once again) if we don’t get rid.

We are going around in circles here. You may well be right that Eck is not up to the job. Your answer is sack him. I'd say to that then what? It is still the rank incompetent SFA who will choose the next manager. That is a guaranteed disaster waiting to happen. The SFA and its structure is the root and cause of the problem but it ain't going anywhere I am very sad to say.

[weekevie04]

Never seen the game, but that's a honker of a result. 

How the feck did the SFA dilly dally by sacking Strachan and end up appointing McLeish. I was up for a change of management, but not Eck, I'd have kept Gordon if it was between those two. 

We deserve everything though. We accept failure and buy their overpriced tickets.

If we don't win the group, we should get rid of McLeish, and winning the group will be very difficult - it'll be too intimating in northern Albania and Tel Aviv no doubt for the likes of Willie Miller on Radio Scotland and the team, but we need to win this group and secure our playoff spot, if not, then time to get rid of Eck.

 

[Lairdyfaeinverclyde]

As i said in an earlier post  i didn't want the current manager when he was appointed. I posted a link last night about managers who are out of work just now and i believe it wouldn't cost a fortune to recruit someone who could positively develop the young squad we currently have. Unfortunately,  the SFA cannot and will not be seen to admit they ballsed up by their current choice of manager. Last night was the first game i've missed at home for many years, i will be at the game on Monday and as usual will support the team but my feelings towards the SFA and manager won't change even if we win the group and secure a play off place. Nothing personal towards the manager i just don't think he is capable of taking this young squad forward.

[weekevie04]

Don't blame you, Lairdy.

We have a good squad, in the sense that Northern Ireland, Iceland, Hungary, Albania, all qualified for the recent Euros and are decent sides these days, we have a similar standard of player if not better, and are underachieving. We should be qualifying for the Euros, maybe the WC is a bridge too far, but definitely the Euros. 

I'm willing to judge McLeish on this Nations League campaign, but I don't have high hopes. 

We really should have appointment a non-Scot or if it was between him and Gord, kept Strach. 

Let's see how Monday goes.

Edited September 8, 2018 by weekevie04

[mrniaboc]

15 hours ago, Malcolm said:

 

Beg brown to come out of retirement... 

Craig Brown aye? 

[Texas Pete]

3 hours ago, macy37 said:

I’ll leave the alky part off then and simply state what an absolute abortion of an appointment he is then. A man who’s out of touch and isn’t anywhere near up to the job.

He shouldn’t be anywhere near the post yet many still want to give him and the clowns who appointed him time. It’s time we don’t have and will waste (once again) if we don’t get rid.

What exactly did McLeish do wrong last night?

If it wasn’t for shocking defending and bad decisions by some players we could have actually got something from that game or at least a narrow defeat to one of the best teams in the world. 

Did McLeish make Gordon play the ball to McGinn? 

Did McLeish make Mulgrew or Ryan Jack give the ball away?

You could question his tactics and say we were a bit too attacking but he has Albania to prepare for. The result of last night’s game was largely meaningless. Ok so it could knock our confidence but an early goal on Monday will soon fix that. 

[Orraloon]

I am usually as pessimistic as most folk on this board, but I saw enough last night to give me confidence that we will beat Albania on Monday. 

For me, it has to be McGregor in goal, Robertson left back and Tierney right back. McGinn, Armstrong and Fraser should all start, if fit.

[Letsdoit]

Players need confidence and last night knocked that. 

Nation feeling down again about state of our game, questions already being asked of the manager, I believe in giving any manger time to do what they can but for all the doubters last night gives ammo, strikers starved of real chances, midfield unable to press opposition, unable to deal with being harried when on ball no ideas, defence easily ripped apart. 

We gave them to much respect and they knew it and also took advantage, they made the game look easy as we watched them pass it around the park, I want to see a Scotland team that will get in the faces of other players as soon as they are on the ball, show some fight and spirit to make up for the lack of ability, no matter who we play it should be like that, passion pride and commitment players determined to get on the ball and put there head first. 

Players should be doing this for the country no matter who is the manager no matter if its a friendly or a qualification game its your country. 

The women do it why can't the men 

[Texas Pete]

5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

In any case Monday's match is what counts. It is imperative we win that match now - if not the pressure will begin to build to a new level on McLeish.

It was always imperative that we win on Monday, whether Belgium pumped us or not and whether Albania beat Israel or not. 

If we want to guarantee a playoff we’ll need to win both of our home games I think. 

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, Texas Pete said:

It was always imperative that we win on Monday, whether Belgium pumped us or not and whether Albania beat Israel or not. 

If we want to guarantee a playoff we’ll need to win both of our home games I think. 

Agreed.

[scotlad]

5 hours ago, borojock said:

My thoughts are sacking Strachan was only the right thing to do if we appointed someone who was significantly better, who would have a significant positive impact on the team and results and done something radically different. If we get someone who is around the same and does pretty much the same then whats the point? 

Now if we tied that into the well trodden debate (which im not trying to reignite) of does the Manager have to be Scottish 

If the answer is yes then i genuinely dont think there was a candidate who was that much better then Strachan and would have made an significant positive impact 

If the answer is no then i genuinely think the ones who would have been that much better than Strachan we couldnt have afforded. My personal choice (which i said at the time) would have been Lars Lagerback i would have broken the bank to get him. He started the Iceland revolution off and has since Norway who have been as bad as we have in recent times and has played 5 and won 5. Thats the type of manager we should have been aiming for .

Sadly i still dont think McLeish knows his best formation, style or tactics

Lagerback should have been appointed after George Burley left.  I don't think the SFA would even had to break the bank to get him - there were reports at the time that his salary with the Swedish FA was considerably less than the SFA had been paying Burley, and apparently Lagerback was keen on the job.  But the SFA tend to prefer yes-men, and I don't think Lagerback is.

I think it's fair to say Strachan wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but a 47% competitive win record doesn't point to the kind of disaster some people like to portray him has.  Unless the SFA had someone as good or better lined up to replace him (or unless he decided he'd had enough and decided to walk, it was never quite clear) the SFA should have kept him.  Their dithering over finding his replacement was embarrassing - no wonder the only half decent candidate linked with the job, Michael O'Neill, turned it down.

In the end, after one or two bone fide duds had thrown their hats into the ring, Alex McLeish was the best option.

[Orraloon]

2 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

It was always imperative that we win on Monday, whether Belgium pumped us or not and whether Albania beat Israel or not. 

If we want to guarantee a playoff we’ll need to win both of our home games I think. 

I think that we need to win 3 games to win the group. If we don't win our home games we won't win the group IMO. 

We might not need to win the group to get a play of spot though.

[Texas Pete]

Just now, Orraloon said:

I think that we need to win 3 games to win the group. If we don't win our home games we won't win the group IMO. 

We might not need to win the group to get a play of spot though.

Agreed although two away draws may well be enough depending on how other games go. 3 wins might not even be enough  though if we lose the other game. My head hurts already and we haven’t even started!

I think second place in our group may well be enough for a playoff. I shudder to think who we’d get though. The Netherlands would be a possibility if they fail to qualify through the groups again. We would be playing away regardless of who we’d get as well.

No point in worrying about that at this stage though I suppose. Let’s just win on Monday and we’ll all be feeling better about things. 

[borojock]

11 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Lagerback should have been appointed after George Burley left.  I don't think the SFA would even had to break the bank to get him - there were reports at the time that his salary with the Swedish FA was considerably less than the SFA had been paying Burley, and apparently Lagerback was keen on the job.  But the SFA tend to prefer yes-men, and I don't think Lagerback is.

I think it's fair to say Strachan wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but a 47% competitive win record doesn't point to the kind of disaster some people like to portray him has.  Unless the SFA had someone as good or better lined up to replace him (or unless he decided he'd had enough and decided to walk, it was never quite clear) the SFA should have kept him.  Their dithering over finding his replacement was embarrassing - no wonder the only half decent candidate linked with the job, Michael O'Neill, turned it down.

In the end, after one or two bone fide duds had thrown their hats into the ring, Alex McLeish was the best option.

I agree with everything you say but i think the most important question the SFA should have asked themselves at the time is will we get anyone who is significantly better then Strachan and will bring anything different - i didnt think at the time or still do that Mcleish is that much better, but out of everyone who wanted the job Mcleish was probably best option

What i think would have been better was if Strachan cleared his backroom staff out and got a new one - Fergie did it at Man Utd for years with his assistants he had 7 different assistants during his tenure there. If Strachan had freshened his support team i think that would have been the best option   

[Texas Pete]

3 hours ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

As i said in an earlier post  i didn't want the current manager when he was appointed. I posted a link last night about managers who are out of work just now and i believe it wouldn't cost a fortune to recruit someone who could positively develop the young squad we currently have. Unfortunately,  the SFA cannot and will not be seen to admit they ballsed up by their current choice of manager. Last night was the first game i've missed at home for many years, i will be at the game on Monday and as usual will support the team but my feelings towards the SFA and manager won't change even if we win the group and secure a play off place. Nothing personal towards the manager i just don't think he is capable of taking this young squad forward.

I’m not really sure how McLeish was to blame last night. Dodgy defending and daft errors cost us. What would you have done differently?

Ultimately, the manager will be judged on his record in competitive games. Since he hasn’t played any yet, maybe it’s a bit early to write him off? Just a thought. 

So if we win all 4 Nations League games and secure (probably at home in the first tie) a playoff next year, you’ll still be calling for McLeish to be replaced? 

[RenfrewBlue]

6 hours ago, borojock said:

I agree i would keep the same formation and pretty much the same players 

I'd change the style McLeish was talking about playing a passing style game we dont have the players or quality for that kind of game, i'd try and be much more direct and wouldnt be aiming at playing the ball from the back. 

Playing direct requires a target man striker that we just don't have. That would have made little or no difference last night. 

[Texas Pete]

38 minutes ago, borojock said:

I agree with everything you say but i think the most important question the SFA should have asked themselves at the time is will we get anyone who is significantly better then Strachan and will bring anything different - i didnt think at the time or still do that Mcleish is that much better, but out of everyone who wanted the job Mcleish was probably best option

What i think would have been better was if Strachan cleared his backroom staff out and got a new one - Fergie did it at Man Utd for years with his assistants he had 7 different assistants during his tenure there. If Strachan had freshened his support team i think that would have been the best option   

Should we just have kept Strachan for the next 20 years then until someone you rate became available and wanted the job?

Strachan had his shot and ultimately didn’t do what he was hired to do. He certainly wasn’t a disaster but it was his questionable decisions and stubbornness, not his back room staff, that cost us.