Islam Feruz

[Super Gran]

Celtic got £300,000 from Chelsea for him and their fans still act like they were hard done by.

[scotlad]

2 hours ago, Super Gran said:

Celtic got £300,000 from Chelsea for him and their fans still act like they were hard done by.

That's not like them at all. 😉

[Caledonian Craig]

3 hours ago, andyscot said:

How do you know his attitude was very bad when at clubs?  I think he lost the enjoyment of football and couldn’t get it back.  

Well what do you call it when higher up authorities fought to stop him and his family getting deported back to Somalia (was it?). How does he repay that? Says he does not want to represent Scotland and wants to leave Celtic. 

Okay lets presume Proud Scot is correct and he has listened to bad advice. Well I'm sorry but he does have a brain and must understand basic stuff like how to be thankful. I mean he could easily have ended up back in Somalia but people moved heaven and Earth to stop that happening. Anyone with an ounce of well meaning would have grasped that he owed them a debt of gratitude. But seemingly it meant nothing to him.

[The_Dark_Knight]

12 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Well what do you call it when higher up authorities fought to stop him and his family getting deported back to Somalia (was it?). How does he repay that? Says he does not want to represent Scotland and wants to leave Celtic. 

Okay lets presume Proud Scot is correct and he has listened to bad advice. Well I'm sorry but he does have a brain and must understand basic stuff like how to be thankful. I mean he could easily have ended up back in Somalia but people moved heaven and Earth to stop that happening. Anyone with an ounce of well meaning would have grasped that he owed them a debt of gratitude. But seemingly it meant nothing to him.

Well said.

[ErsatzThistle]

I imagine the luxury cars will have had to be sold ?

Pal of mine came across him several months back in the toon. Said Feruz had put on a lot of weight.

[mrniaboc]

I'm sure all of us would have been so humble and sensible if we became millionaires at 16 😂😂😂. 

[Blantyre_Braveheart]

5 hours ago, Super Gran said:

Celtic got £300,000 from Chelsea for him and their fans still act like they were hard done by.

I've yet to hear a Celtic fan who isn't delighted his career went down the shutter.

Contrast that with Billy Gilmour leaving Rangers for Chelsea, other than a few roasters, most Rangers fans are happy he is doing well and hope he becomes world class.

[aaid]

The only thing I'm surprised at is that I thought he'd get at least one more contract from somewhere before packing the game up.

No-one to blame but himself.  No bad injury, any ill fortune is all of his own making.  He had more than long enough to wake up and smell the coffee.   Maybe he would never have lived up to his early potential but he should still have been able to make a career for himself in the lower leagues if he'd had an ounce of dedication. 

[WCTA]

5 hours ago, mrniaboc said:

I'm sure all of us would have been so humble and sensible if we became millionaires at 16 😂😂😂. 

Never really affected my ego to be honest. 

[Caledonian Craig]

On 10/20/2019 at 4:55 PM, Blantyre_Braveheart said:

I've yet to hear a Celtic fan who isn't delighted his career went down the shutter.

Contrast that with Billy Gilmour leaving Rangers for Chelsea, other than a few roasters, most Rangers fans are happy he is doing well and hope he becomes world class.

There is a big difference between the two though. Feruz was helped to stay in the country by the Scottish government and those at Celtic helped on that front too and he quite clearly shat on them as repayment at the first opportunity. Gilmour did not leave under any such circumstances hence no ill feeling.

[Super Gran]

Who was it that actually did all the heaven and Earth moving, what was involved and what did they want in return? 

[Caledonian Craig]

16 minutes ago, Super Gran said:

Who was it that actually did all the heaven and Earth moving, what was involved and what did they want in return? 

Here is an interesting piece that covers it all.

https://www.nutmegmagazine.co.uk/issue-1/the-curious-case-of-islam-feruz/

[Super Gran]

Cheers. Unfortunately, the article doesn't really cover any of those questions, other than mentioning Tommy Burns was involved in some way. Maybe he wrote a letter to someone in the Government? I just thought that, with the disgust some people seem to have for Feruz, someone would perhaps have known the finer details of what happened.

He's not god enough to play for Scotland anyway. Hopefully our next crop of youngsters will fare better.

[ParisInAKilt]

Maybe I’m being overly cynical but Celtic helped him only because they thought it would benefit them on the pitch and in turn financially. If Feruz thought moving to Chelsea was better for his career then fair enough, he owed Celtic nothing beyond what Chelsea had to pay for him. 

From what I seen of him I think he could have played at a lower league level but probably couldn’t be arsed putting the effort in for that.

Edited October 22, 2019 by ParisInAKilt

[Caledonian Craig]

7 minutes ago, Super Gran said:

Cheers. Unfortunately, the article doesn't really cover any of those questions, other than mentioning Tommy Burns was involved in some way. Maybe he wrote a letter to someone in the Government? I just thought that, with the disgust some people seem to have for Feruz, someone would perhaps have known the finer details of what happened.

He's not god enough to play for Scotland anyway. Hopefully our next crop of youngsters will fare better.

Well does it matter? The fact was that he was on the verge of being deported and people made great strides to prevent that and succeeded but Feruz showed no gratitude whatsever for it. That foul tweet of his sums it all up. Does Feruz feel he would have not been deported if others had not worked hard to prevent that?

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Caledonian Craig

[aaid]

31 minutes ago, Super Gran said:

Cheers. Unfortunately, the article doesn't really cover any of those questions, other than mentioning Tommy Burns was involved in some way. Maybe he wrote a letter to someone in the Government? I just thought that, with the disgust some people seem to have for Feruz, someone would perhaps have known the finer details of what happened.

He's not god enough to play for Scotland anyway. Hopefully our next crop of youngsters will fare better.

I can't remember the exact form it took, whether it was a letter or appearing personally, but Tommy Burns basically gave him a reference at his family's immigration tribunal.   There's nothing to suggest whether that had any major bearing on the outcome either way.  I've a tremendous amount of respect for Tommy Burns but I doubt he'd have done the same if he'd been a youth team player they were looking to bin.

As thing turned out, it looks like Celtic dodged a real bullet and got the better part of that deal by a long way.

[Caledonian Craig]

51 minutes ago, aaid said:

I can't remember the exact form it took, whether it was a letter or appearing personally, but Tommy Burns basically gave him a reference at his family's immigration tribunal.   There's nothing to suggest whether that had any major bearing on the outcome either way.  I've a tremendous amount of respect for Tommy Burns but I doubt he'd have done the same if he'd been a youth team player they were looking to bin.

As thing turned out, it looks like Celtic dodged a real bullet and got the better part of that deal by a long way.

I'd disagree for the simple reason of the time that we were in then. Deporting was likelier than not to happen at a time just after 9/11 etc. The world was on high alert around that time on such matters. Now I am in no way suggesting a single nefarious thing about Feruz but to believe they'd have been lenient on him without any effort from anyone of high standing I fail to believe.

[aaid]

17 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I'd disagree for the simple reason of the time that we were in then. Deporting was likelier than not to happen at a time just after 9/11 etc. The world was on high alert around that time on such matters. Now I am in no way suggesting a single nefarious thing about Feruz but to believe they'd have been lenient on him without any effort from anyone of high standing I fail to believe.

Bullshit - that's all just speculation.   Do you know which other people or oganisations gave evidence in support of the Feruz family at that time?   Do you know how many other families who didn't have child prodigies were deported to Somalia at that time?

I don't have a clue to the answer to any of those questions and neither do you

This might be of interest - bear in mind that with Feruz, you were looking at a young family and that was under a Labour Government considerably less gung ho that Theresa May's Home Office. 

The likelihood is he'd never have been deported.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/judge-prevents-theresa-may-sending-asylum-seeker-back-to-lawless-somalia-9475274.html

Edited October 22, 2019 by aaid

[Caledonian Craig]

7 minutes ago, aaid said:

Bullshit - that's all just speculation.   Do you know which other people or oganisations gave evidence in support of the Feruz family at that time?   Do you know how many other families who didn't have child prodigies were deported to Somalia at that time?

I don't have a clue to the answer to any of those questions and neither do you

Look I've already supplied report saying Tommy Burns did a lot to help and that is backed up by a friend of the late Tommy Burns. Are you suggesting they are lying?

I am not claiming to be in the know but I do recall the story as it broke and I find it impossible to believe that a 16-year-old and his Somalian family could alone fully persuade the authorities to put off deportation. On the internet it has Lennon saying the club did a lot to keep him in Scotland too. There is evidence there.

[aaid]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Look I've already supplied report saying Tommy Burns did a lot to help and that is backed up by a friend of the late Tommy Burns. Are you suggesting they are lying?

I am not claiming to be in the know but I do recall the story as it broke and I find it impossible to believe that a 16-year-old and his Somalian family could alone fully persuade the authorities to put off deportation. On the internet it has Lennon saying the club did a lot to keep him in Scotland too. There is evidence there.

The deportation case was in 2007 when he was 12 and as for convincing the authorities then that's what lawyers are for and there's plenty of people who do this stuff pro-bono.

The Home Office have to go through the motions but that was a government which didn't put immigration towards the top of its agenda unlike the current one.   It's highly likely that even had their application for asylum been rejected they would've been deported.  That's not automatic and even this current government don't deport to Somalia.

I've no doubt that Tommy Burns was absolutely sincere, although as I said, I doubt he'd have done it had Feruz not been such a prodigy, and to be honest there's no reason he should've.

There's one big problem that I have with this narrative and its that sadly Tommy Burns had died by the time this all blew up.   I suspect that had he still been alive, his view would've been different from those ascribing to know his intentions.  Tommy Burns was pretty classy when it came to things like that.    

I don't buy into the narrative that's been advanced that Tommy Burns saved him from deportation.

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, aaid said:

The deportation case was in 2007 when he was 12 and as for convincing the authorities then that's what lawyers are for and there's plenty of people who do this stuff pro-bono.

The Home Office have to go through the motions but that was a government which didn't put immigration towards the top of its agenda unlike the current one.   It's highly likely that even had their application for asylum been rejected they would've been deported.  That's not automatic and even this current government don't deport to Somalia.

I've no doubt that Tommy Burns was absolutely sincere, although as I said, I doubt he'd have done it had Feruz not been such a prodigy, and to be honest there's no reason he should've.

There's one big problem that I have with this narrative and its that sadly Tommy Burns had died by the time this all blew up.   I suspect that had he still been alive, his view would've been different from those ascribing to know his intentions.  Tommy Burns was pretty classy when it came to things like that.    

I don't buy into the narrative that's been advanced that Tommy Burns saved him from deportation.

Tommy Burns passed away in 2008 a year after the deportation case. Of course his efforts would have been solely based on his interest in getting him to remain in Scotland with Celtic. That is not up for debate but why that matters I am not sure. And I am not saying it was solely Tommy Burns but also others at the club and I do believe that the Scottish government played a part too of memory serves. And like I said Neil Lennon alludes to the part the club played in keeping him in Scotland.

On the other side of the coin look at Feruz actions in his career. After crapping on Celtic and moving to Chelsea he would end up being farmed out to other clubs on loan. He went to Blackpool who sent him packing because of a bad attitude where he said that Blackpool kicked off more times than they got corners and that bad attitude has left him where he is now. It would seem, in his defence, that this bad attitude crept in from when he changed agents from his Scottish agent to a Spanish one (I do believe). Lennon noted that from that time his demeanour and attitude changed and there was no going back.

We shall agree to disagree on this one though. No hard feelings.

[aaid]

5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Tommy Burns passed away in 2008 a year after the deportation case. Of course his efforts would have been solely based on his interest in getting him to remain in Scotland with Celtic. That is not up for debate but why that matters I am not sure. And I am not saying it was solely Tommy Burns but also others at the club and I do believe that the Scottish government played a part too of memory serves. And like I said Neil Lennon alludes to the part the club played in keeping him in Scotland.

On the other side of the coin look at Feruz actions in his career. After crapping on Celtic and moving to Chelsea he would end up being farmed out to other clubs on loan. He went to Blackpool who sent him packing because of a bad attitude where he said that Blackpool kicked off more times than they got corners and that bad attitude has left him where he is now. It would seem, in his defence, that this bad attitude crept in from when he changed agents from his Scottish agent to a Spanish one (I do believe). Lennon noted that from that time his demeanour and attitude changed and there was no going back.

We shall agree to disagree on this one though. No hard feelings.

Too easy to blame it on changes on agents.  I assume Lennon is talking about a change in attitude *when* he was at Celtic and started looking to get away.    

From what I understand there were no problems with him at Chelsea for the first couple of years - and in fact he was getting picked out as one to watch, I think he went away with the first team for pre-season abroad.   When it came to the next step up, out of the youth team and into men's football, that's where it went wrong for him and his bad attitude started to show through.

From what I understand, when he was at Hibs he wasn't a disruptive influence and was pretty quiet and withdrawn and not very good but by that stage he was finished.

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, aaid said:

Too easy to blame it on changes on agents.  I assume Lennon is talking about a change in attitude *when* he was at Celtic and started looking to get away.    

From what I understand there were no problems with him at Chelsea for the first couple of years - and in fact he was getting picked out as one to watch, I think he went away with the first team for pre-season abroad.   When it came to the next step up, out of the youth team and into men's football, that's where it went wrong for him and his bad attitude started to show through.

From what I understand, when he was at Hibs he wasn't a disruptive influence and was pretty quiet and withdrawn and not very good but by that stage he was finished.

Lennon felt there were people turning his head when he was breaking through. Probably being 'tapped up' I'd imagine and then he changed agent and Lennon said that was when he noted a change in his attitude and started making noises about wanting away. Of course that may be the bad attitude Lennon speaks of for wanting away or maybe it went deeper than that I am not sure there.

Personally, I feel he is another in a long line of promising youngsters tipped for big things for Scotland who has fallen by the wayside and quickly into obscurity. It is something that the SFA should be looking into. We should be trying to work out ways to increase the percentage of promising youngsters who then go on to make it at club level and then international level.

[aaid]

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Lennon felt there were people turning his head when he was breaking through. Probably being 'tapped up' I'd imagine and then he changed agent and Lennon said that was when he noted a change in his attitude and started making noises about wanting away. Of course that may be the bad attitude Lennon speaks of for wanting away or maybe it went deeper than that I am not sure there.

Personally, I feel he is another in a long line of promising youngsters tipped for big things for Scotland who has fallen by the wayside and quickly into obscurity. It is something that the SFA should be looking into. We should be trying to work out ways to increase the percentage of promising youngsters who then go on to make it at club level and then international level.

The guy was at a club where everything that was required to further his career was available to him.  Very difficult for him to break into the first team at Chelsea granted although a number of his contemporaries did that, however perfectly possible for him to make it at another club.  He wasn't unlucky with injuries.  There's very little the SFA can do about it, ultimately it's up to the player to put the effort in to make the best of his talent.

Maybe the problem is that he was never that good in the first place and that perhaps fans shouldn't be so quick to build up young players as potential world beaters based on little to no evidence to support that. 

[0Neils40yarder]

Celtic being upset about losing a player? Cannae beat it, horrible lot that they are