Nations League

[wanderer]

4 minutes ago, Grim Jim said:

Texas Pete will let you know

I suspect it's the other way round as we'd be punished for winning the group otherwise.

Hahaha there was a couple of folk yesterday saying a draw with Israel was not necessary a bad thing (one guy has since deleated his initial tweet) but suspect that was before Hungary beat Finland, so we have to win now.

[Lion Rampant]

7 minutes ago, Grim Jim said:

Texas Pete will let you know

I suspect it's the other way round as we'd be punished for winning the group otherwise.

The allocation of playoff places is about the only thing I cannot completely get my head around. All I know for sure is that group winners will play a team from their own league (maybe even the league below).

What I think will happen is that should we win the group then Israel would then likely play a League A or B team in a playoff should the playoff places filter down that far. You would assume that all League A and some League B teams would qualify automatically so the 8 playoff spots for those leagues will, at least in part, be available to the best ranked teams from League C.

Although I think that if Israel would get a League C's group winners place should one of them qualify directly and that they were the 5th beat team in League C (which is a strong possibility).

 

[Scotland Ever More]

Is it not the case that if the league A and B group winners qualify through the traditional route then their place goes to the group runners up who didn't qualify?

Pretty sure we can only play teams in league C in the play offs. Not be handed a team from league B

[Clyde1998]

6 minutes ago, Scotland Ever More said:

Is it not the case that if the league A and B group winners qualify through the traditional route then their place goes to the group runners up who didn't qualify?

Pretty sure we can only play teams in league C in the play offs. Not be handed a team from league B

Correct, with one minor adjustment, we can only play teams from League C or D in the play-offs.

[Lion Rampant]

25 minutes ago, Scotland Ever More said:

Is it not the case that if the league A and B group winners qualify through the traditional route then their place goes to the group runners up who didn't qualify?

Pretty sure we can only play teams in league C in the play offs. Not be handed a team from league B

Yeah, that's correct but based on the assumption that there are any League A teams that haven't qualified automatically. If they have all qualified automatically then I was under the impression that their 4 places filter down to the highest ranked League B teams who didn't win their groups and haven't qualified through the conventional route. Essentially if you are in League A then you're almost guaranteed a playoff spot.

We would only play a League B team if we were to finish 2nd in our group and there were playoff places from League B that were unfilled (should enough of them qualify automatically).

Say that all League A teams qualify through the conventional route as do 8 from League B. This would theoretically mean that there were 4 teams left from League B that would then go into the playoffs.

From there I assume that those 4 remaining League B teams who didn't qualify automatically would be paired with the 4 highest ranked teams from League C that haven't already got their playoff place from the NL group phase.

I think the likliehood of us getting a League D team in a playoff is incredibly small. We would need a large amount of League C teams to qualify automatically which is very unlikely.

[bonny78]

Wake me up when this complex process is over

[Texas Pete]

3 hours ago, Grim Jim said:

Texas Pete will let you know

I suspect it's the other way round as we'd be punished for winning the group otherwise.

How dare you, sir. 😂

 

[Orraloon]

Are folk just taking the pish now?

This has been explained umpteen times already on here.

[Tartan_McCole]

So, after we beat Israel we move straight into the CAF qualifiers. Or is it the CONCACAF?

[Clyde1998]

4 minutes ago, Tartan_McCole said:

So, after we beat Israel we move straight into the CAF qualifiers. Or is it the CONCACAF?

I think we have to beat Grenada and the Solomon Islands to get into play-offs.

[Texas Pete]

8 hours ago, Clyde1998 said:

Correct, with one minor adjustment, we can only play teams from League C or D in the play-offs.

This is correct if we beat Israel although there is next to no chance of us getting a League D team.  

If we lose or draw tomorrow we could still reach the playoffs but would likely play a League A or B team and the first tie would definitely be away from home. 

[Stockholm 1980]

It will be our luck we win tomorrow and contrive to get Georgia in the Play Offs.  

After all these qualifiers UEFA will produce a list grading every team from 1-55, I’m sure I seen a running total of it somewhere.

[magicTs]

Should we win tomorrow and none of Finland, Serbia or Norway/Bulgaria (playing just now) qualify automatically through the traditional method then we are guaranteed to play Finland at Hampden in the semi-final of the play offs. They are certain to be ranked 4th and us first, assuming the win mañana and no crazy turnaround in goal difference with Norway/Bulgaria today. Group winners can’t play teams from a higher league so none of us would have to play a team from Nations League B. As an aside if Scotland draw tomorrow we are likely to be the next best side so could find ourselves in a play off against a Nations League B side or if one of the Group C sides qualify automatically then replacing them.  

Edited November 19, 2018 by magicTs

[Scotland Ever More]

13 minutes ago, magicTs said:

Should we win tomorrow and none of Finland, Serbia or Norway/Bulgaria (playing just now) qualify automatically through the traditional method then we are guaranteed to play Finland at Hampden in the semi-final of the play offs. They are certain to be ranked 4th and us first, assuming the win mañana and no crazy turnaround in goal difference with Norway/Bulgaria today. Group winners can’t play teams from a higher league so none of us would have to play a team from Nations League B. As an aside if Scotland draw tomorrow we are likely to be the next best side so could find ourselves in a play off against a Nations League B side or if one of the Group C sides qualify automatically then replacing them.  

Wouldn't the next best side thing only happen if Israel win the group and then qualified for the Euros through the traditional qualifiers? 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Scotland Ever More

[magicTs]

1 minute ago, Scotland Ever More said:

Wouldn't the next best side thing only happen if Israel qualified for the Euros through the traditional qualifiers? 

No it is the next best highest ranked team in the league not the individual group. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by magicTs

[Scotland Ever More]

2 minutes ago, magicTs said:

No it is the next best highest ranked team in the league not the individual group. 

Wouldn't that require every team from league A and B to automatically qualify in the normal qualifiers, which surely can't be mathematically possible? 

[Scotland Ever More]

Another thing, I know the playoff final venue is agreed in advance but is it just a random city or in the country of one of the 4 teams in the playoff?

What I mean is, in theory, we could end up with another home game should we get to the final or end up playing in a neutral venue in a country try that isn't ours or our opponents?

[McTeeko]

3 minutes ago, Scotland Ever More said:

Another thing, I know the playoff final venue is agreed in advance but is it just a random city or in the country of one of the 4 teams in the playoff?

What I mean is, in theory, we could end up with another home game should we get to the final or end up playing in a neutral venue in a country try that isn't ours or our opponents?

It’s in the country of one of the four teams. There will be a 3rd/4th play-off match too, so even if you lose the semi you still have a match in the named city (I assume the 3rd/4th play-off will be the night before the final).

[magicTs]

11 minutes ago, Scotland Ever More said:

Wouldn't that require every team from league A and B to automatically qualify in the normal qualifiers, which surely can't be mathematically possible? 

 

Well you need 8 teams for the play offs for Nations League A and B so it’s highly likely that they will need a team or 2 from League C (ours). Clearly we want to avoid playing up as it where and by winning our Group tomorrow we guarantee to face a fellow League C side. Group winners can’t play teams from the League above. 

[magicTs]

15 minutes ago, Scotland Ever More said:

Another thing, I know the playoff final venue is agreed in advance but is it just a random city or in the country of one of the 4 teams in the playoff?

What I mean is, in theory, we could end up with another home game should we get to the final or end up playing in a neutral venue in a country try that isn't ours or our opponents?

 

It’s in the country of one of the 2 teams. I thinks it’s bs that whilst they have the teams ranked 1-4 play and 2-3 play the top ranked team doesn’t get the home advantage for the final.

Clearly a lot can happen in the Euro qualifying but if we win tomorrow there is every chance none of us, Serbia, Norway or Finland will make it automatically which would see the following as we would all be group winners and therefore ineligible to play again higher ranked sides: 

Scotland v Finland 

Norway v Serbia 

Edited November 19, 2018 by magicTs

[Texas Pete]

10 hours ago, wanderer said:

Hahaha there was a couple of folk yesterday saying a draw with Israel was not necessary a bad thing (one guy has since deleated his initial tweet) but suspect that was before Hungary beat Finland, so we have to win now.

We’ve known we had to beat Israel at Hampden to top the group since they beat Albania at home the night we played Portugal. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Texas Pete

[magicTs]

5 minutes ago, McTeeko said:

It’s in the country of one of the four teams. There will be a 3rd/4th play-off match too, so even if you lose the semi you still have a match in the named city (I assume the 3rd/4th play-off will be the night before the final).

The 3rd / 4th play off match only applies to the Nations League A finals in June 2019 which has nothing to do with the play off process. Nations League A still have play offs in March 2020 which will likely feature completely different teams including those from Nation League B who have not qualified automatically. Basically it ensures they don’t see a repeat of World Cup 2018 with the likes of Italy and Holland missing out! 

[Redondo]

Is it not the case that if there’s a spare place going in the Group C playoffs because 1 of the initial playoff teams qualifies via normal qualification, then the next best team in Group C gets that slot, And  if a Group C team also ends up in the Group B playoffs then it would be a lower ranked Group C team.  Seems fairer.

[Scotland Ever More]

10 minutes ago, McTeeko said:

It’s in the country of one of the four teams. There will be a 3rd/4th play-off match too, so even if you lose the semi you still have a match in the named city (I assume the 3rd/4th play-off will be the night before the final).

As Magic T says the 3/4 place playoff only applies to league A and the winners of the nation's league.

On that note, a playoff to see who comes 3rd in this tournament has to be one of the most unappealing matches ever.

[magicTs]

10 hours ago, wanderer said:

Hahaha there was a couple of folk yesterday saying a draw with Israel was not necessary a bad thing (one guy has since deleated his initial tweet) but suspect that was before Hungary beat Finland, so we have to win now.

This is wrong. If we draw tomorrow we will be the next best finisher out with the group winners. A draw sees us finish on 7 pts, Hungary only finished on 6 pts. Drawing would likely mean we end up in a play off to a Nations League B side away from home though which is clearly a nightmare compared to Finland at Hampden which will in all likelihood be the case assuming none of us, Finland, Norway or Serbia qualify automatically.