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John Fleck


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3 hours ago, ProudScot said:

Exactly.

The “nowhere near” statement is laughable.

Folk not accepting just how poor we are. Loads of players are very near, we are that bad. 

We also aren't as bad as you make out there are still countries like Hungary who are worse than us just now and we should be capable of winning this Nations League group against Albania and Israel. To be honest the Nation's League will be great to judge where we are really at. 

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19 hours ago, bazmidd said:

We also aren't as bad as you make out there are still countries like Hungary who are worse than us just now and we should be capable of winning this Nations League group against Albania and Israel. To be honest the Nation's League will be great to judge where we are really at. 

We are definitely capable, but Albania and Israel will be looking at our defence and our attack and they'll fancy their chances against us too.

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20 hours ago, bazmidd said:

We also aren't as bad as you make out there are still countries like Hungary who are worse than us just now and we should be capable of winning this Nations League group against Albania and Israel. To be honest the Nation's League will be great to judge where we are really at. 

Let’s wait till we see how we get on against Albania and Israel before we gauge where we are at.

Albania have numerous players playing in Serie A and also qualified for a tournament recently.

i would love us to beat them both but two very defensive performances and soul destroying defeats against two of the worlds best sides in friendlies around then seems such a bizarre decision too. Why not pick winnable friendlies where we can try players and learn something about ourselves.

very odd. 

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1 hour ago, ProudScot said:

Let’s wait till we see how we get on against Albania and Israel before we gauge where we are at.

Albania have numerous players playing in Serie A and also qualified for a tournament recently.

i would love us to beat them both but two very defensive performances and soul destroying defeats against two of the worlds best sides in friendlies around then seems such a bizarre decision too. Why not pick winnable friendlies where we can try players and learn something about ourselves.

very odd. 

The SFA are all about the money, as we know. 

I don’t think for a minute that if it was up to Alex McLeish that we would be playing Portugal and Belgium. 

Having said that, our choices of who to play in these friendlies were quite limited. It could also go the other way.

Two good performances against two of the world’s best teams could give us confidence.

De Bruyne will be missing from the Belgium team and will Ronaldo definitely be playing for Portugal? The guy is almost as old as me. They might well rest him for their friendlies. I hope he does play to be fair as I’ve never seen him play in person before but our chances of a decent result will improve if he doesn’t. 

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What are people's opinions on Ryan Jacks inevitable call up ahead of the likes of John Fleck then? If Fleck ever wants to play for Scotland he'd better try and angle a move back to the Rangers eh. Never mind having a couple of great seasons down south, it seems a couple of decent games for Rangers is the way into the National Team

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1 hour ago, bazmidd said:

What are people's opinions on Ryan Jacks inevitable call up ahead of the likes of John Fleck then? If Fleck ever wants to play for Scotland he'd better try and angle a move back to the Rangers eh. Never mind having a couple of great seasons down south, it seems a couple of decent games for Rangers is the way into the National Team

I think they are slightly different players that do different roles. Jack is more of a defensive anchor point who screens for the midfield 3 and fleck is a bit more creative with ability to influence the game higher up the pitch with a better passing range and quality. Both decent players around same ability level i'd say who could do a job but lets not kid ourselves neither player would be looking at a call up if they played for a pot 1 or 2 nation. 

I think the call up point is an interesting one, i think McLesih would be happy to call anyone up whos on form and playing regular football in the championship as much as he would call up a Rangers player. I'd say he would be slightly and only slightly less forthcoming with a call up for an Aberdeen, Hearts or Hibs player and then very little enthusiasm to call anyone up who plays outside of those clubs in the SPL regardless of their form - but i may be wrong with his thinking  

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9 hours ago, bazmidd said:

What are people's opinions on Ryan Jacks inevitable call up ahead of the likes of John Fleck then? If Fleck ever wants to play for Scotland he'd better try and angle a move back to the Rangers eh. Never mind having a couple of great seasons down south, it seems a couple of decent games for Rangers is the way into the National Team

‘A couple of decent games’ seems harsh.

Ryan Jack had already broken into the Scotland squad before this season. He played against the Netherlands last November and was injured for the more recent games. 

He has been in good form this season so I’d be surprised if he wasn’t in the squad for next month’s games although it wasn’t McLeish that called him up last year so who knows? He can play at right back so he could be an option there.

As far is Fleck is concerned, is he better than what we already have in his position? Depends on how McLeish wants to play I suppose. We’ll find out next week when the squad is announced.

 

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I don't know why people still think of Fleck as this Rooneyesque attacking Midfielder/Striker creating and scoring when he is and has been for the past 4 seasons exactly the same type of Midfielder as Scott Brown, which is exactly the type of Midfielder Ryan Jack is. A holding Midfielder who controls the tempo of the game. A couple of decent games is not a harsh assesment of Jack's season so far, it is actually spot on as that is all he has had in the last year as you quite rightly point out he has been injured, and before his injury was very poor to say the least. John Fleck on the other hand has been playing consistently well for the last few years, and last season was brilliant in the Championship. Now I'm not saying Ryan Jack is crap and shouldn't be looked at but he should be in no way shape or form be thrown straight in just because he has had a couple of decent games for Rangers. There are boys far more deserving who have showed more consistent form over the last year or so than Ryan Jack. If Fleck and Jack both turn out to be fantastic players for Scotland then great, but right now there would only really be room for one and it is irritating to know some players are still being picked purely just for the club they are playing for, because let's be honest, if Ryan Jack was still playing for Aberdeen he would barely get a mention, no matter how well he started the season.

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4 hours ago, bazmidd said:

I don't know why people still think of Fleck as this Rooneyesque attacking Midfielder/Striker creating and scoring when he is and has been for the past 4 seasons exactly the same type of Midfielder as Scott Brown, which is exactly the type of Midfielder Ryan Jack is. A holding Midfielder who controls the tempo of the game. A couple of decent games is not a harsh assesment of Jack's season so far, it is actually spot on as that is all he has had in the last year as you quite rightly point out he has been injured, and before his injury was very poor to say the least. John Fleck on the other hand has been playing consistently well for the last few years, and last season was brilliant in the Championship. Now I'm not saying Ryan Jack is crap and shouldn't be looked at but he should be in no way shape or form be thrown straight in just because he has had a couple of decent games for Rangers. There are boys far more deserving who have showed more consistent form over the last year or so than Ryan Jack. If Fleck and Jack both turn out to be fantastic players for Scotland then great, but right now there would only really be room for one and it is irritating to know some players are still being picked purely just for the club they are playing for, because let's be honest, if Ryan Jack was still playing for Aberdeen he would barely get a mention, no matter how well he started the season. 

This all feels a bit too desperate to have Fleck in the squad. But ok.

Worth noting that Jack was at Aberdeen when he got his first call up..

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49 minutes ago, andyD said:

This all feels a bit too desperate to have Fleck in the squad. But ok.

Worth noting that Jack was at Aberdeen when he got his first call up..

I actually don't think either of them should be in the squad as our best 3 holding Midfielders play in the English Premiership. But if there is room for one more and it is between Fleck and Jack, Fleck is more deserving

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looked through this thread as I have a vague interest in the Scottish National team (Scottish grannie) and as a Sheffield United season ticket holder and keen watcher of the Championship.  

An opinion -Fleck has been superb for us he has a real football brain and is a tremendous leader on the pitch. He is a bit old fashioned in that he is a complete player, none of this attacking or defensive midfielder garbage, he loves a tackle, has a good range of passing, lasts a full 90 up and down and his positional sense and movement is very good.  Since he’s been with us I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he hasn’t been a key player in a match. In terms of direct comparisons he is streets ahead of MacDonald (ex Blade) and Bannon, of competing players I have seen only Cairney is a serious contender.  On one level I hope he never gets picked for you as it increases our chances of holding on to him and lessons his chances of burn out or injury but if you are interested in having as good a national team as you can have it’s laughable that he hasn’t been selected for a squad over the last couple of years.

 

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1 hour ago, Paulus said:

Looked through this thread as I have a vague interest in the Scottish National team (Scottish grannie) and as a Sheffield United season ticket holder and keen watcher of the Championship.  

An opinion -Fleck has been superb for us he has a real football brain and is a tremendous leader on the pitch. He is a bit old fashioned in that he is a complete player, none of this attacking or defensive midfielder garbage, he loves a tackle, has a good range of passing, lasts a full 90 up and down and his positional sense and movement is very good.  Since he’s been with us I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he hasn’t been a key player in a match. In terms of direct comparisons he is streets ahead of MacDonald (ex Blade) and Bannon, of competing players I have seen only Cairney is a serious contender.  On one level I hope he never gets picked for you as it increases our chances of holding on to him and lessons his chances of burn out or injury but if you are interested in having as good a national team as you can have it’s laughable that he hasn’t been selected for a squad over the last couple of years.

 

I think the reason he hasn't is that he has played in the lower leagues in England. When we have players playing at higher levels it is no surprise he has been over-looked. Who knows that may change now that he is playing in the Championship.

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1 hour ago, Paulus said:

Looked through this thread as I have a vague interest in the Scottish National team (Scottish grannie) and as a Sheffield United season ticket holder and keen watcher of the Championship.  

An opinion -Fleck has been superb for us he has a real football brain and is a tremendous leader on the pitch. He is a bit old fashioned in that he is a complete player, none of this attacking or defensive midfielder garbage, he loves a tackle, has a good range of passing, lasts a full 90 up and down and his positional sense and movement is very good.  Since he’s been with us I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he hasn’t been a key player in a match. In terms of direct comparisons he is streets ahead of MacDonald (ex Blade) and Bannon, of competing players I have seen only Cairney is a serious contender.  On one level I hope he never gets picked for you as it increases our chances of holding on to him and lessons his chances of burn out or injury but if you are interested in having as good a national team as you can have it’s laughable that he hasn’t been selected for a squad over the last couple of years.

 

Thanks for that. He was good at Cov but i didn't think he'd be pushing for a place in the Scotland squad.  Anyway, good to hear and it re-states what other Blades fans have said. But i don't think It's laughable he's not been picked. Of the two you mention I don't think many round here would consider Bannon and, to be honest, I've not seen anything yet that suggests McDonald's value to the squad. The fact that he's not been picked is due to the others ahead of him mainly at Celtic or the English Prem: Armstrong (Southampton), Fraser (Bournemouth), Cairney (Fulham), McGregor (Celtic), Forrest (Celtic), McTominay (Man Utd), McArthur (Palace), Snodgrass (West Ham) and then in the English Championship McGinn (Villa).

No problem with a Fleck call up but he's in a field of another half a dozen fighting for that place.

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3 hours ago, SkyBlueScot said:

Thanks for that. He was good at Cov but i didn't think he'd be pushing for a place in the Scotland squad.  Anyway, good to hear and it re-states what other Blades fans have said. But i don't think It's laughable he's not been picked. Of the two you mention I don't think many round here would consider Bannon and, to be honest, I've not seen anything yet that suggests McDonald's value to the squad. The fact that he's not been picked is due to the others ahead of him mainly at Celtic or the English Prem: Armstrong (Southampton), Fraser (Bournemouth), Cairney (Fulham), McGregor (Celtic), Forrest (Celtic), McTominay (Man Utd), McArthur (Palace), Snodgrass (West Ham) and then in the English Championship McGinn (Villa).

No problem with a Fleck call up but he's in a field of another half a dozen fighting for that place.

Interesting response, looking through the guys you've listed as the ones who have been selected in front of him it doesn't strike me there are too many automatic picks.  Armstrong and Cairney are certainly worth their call ups from what I've seen, I've not seen a lot of McGregor but again given his profile he looks a solid pick, Fraser, Forrest and Snodgrass are predominantly wide men.  Snodgrass I've seen a fair bit of and he's a dangerous player on his day but he's now the wrong side of 31 and not likely to improve from this point onwards.  Likewise McArthur is not getting any younger and is hardly going to light up any midfield at international level.  From what I can see McTominay has made less than 30 senior appearances, most as sub and has yet to score a senior goal, one for the future maybe but he can't be a serious option at this stage in his career.  Interestingly McGinn was up against Fleck at Bramall Lane on Saturday and it was the first time I've seen him live, now I know that Villa's ineptitude can't all be laid at McGinn's door but he was part of a midfield that got blown away by the one Fleck was playing for; if anyone from the International camp watches a tape of that match they wouldn't be picking McGinn out of the pair of them.

In the end though there is only one person's opinion that counts so I'll be interested to see how things play out.

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7 hours ago, Paulus said:

Interesting response, looking through the guys you've listed as the ones who have been selected in front of him it doesn't strike me there are too many automatic picks.  Armstrong and Cairney are certainly worth their call ups from what I've seen, I've not seen a lot of McGregor but again given his profile he looks a solid pick, Fraser, Forrest and Snodgrass are predominantly wide men.  Snodgrass I've seen a fair bit of and he's a dangerous player on his day but he's now the wrong side of 31 and not likely to improve from this point onwards.  Likewise McArthur is not getting any younger and is hardly going to light up any midfield at international level.  From what I can see McTominay has made less than 30 senior appearances, most as sub and has yet to score a senior goal, one for the future maybe but he can't be a serious option at this stage in his career.  Interestingly McGinn was up against Fleck at Bramall Lane on Saturday and it was the first time I've seen him live, now I know that Villa's ineptitude can't all be laid at McGinn's door but he was part of a midfield that got blown away by the one Fleck was playing for; if anyone from the International camp watches a tape of that match they wouldn't be picking McGinn out of the pair of them.

In the end though there is only one person's opinion that counts so I'll be interested to see how things play out.

Very interesting comments regarding Saturdays match as I was looking for some info on the match up between Fleck and McGinn on Saturday. Both I feel are very similar players and both probably around the same level. It looks like Fleck came out on top this time but Steve Bruce did say McGinn was carrying an injury. Hope it's not too serious but may just open the door for Fleck.

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  • 2 months later...
1 hour ago, Lion Rampant said:

Fleck supposedly called up but won't join up with the squad until Sunday. 

This apparently due to us being unable to amend transport arrangements at short notice. 

This is unbelievable if true...does he not drive, do they not have trains in Sheffield? If he has been called up, but can't get there until Sunday, then that just highlights the incompetencies at the SFA and the lack of desire for international fitba' from the modern player. 

 

If it was me, I'd be hitch-hiking it to be at Hampden

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