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If Croatia can do it, so can we.


er yir macaroon

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4 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Aye, I remember watching Red Star Belgrade pass Rangers off the park in the European Cup. Robert Prosinecky was sensational.

 

One of the very few Rangers games I've ever been to, but agree.

I also remember Red Star killing the game with 20mins to go.  Despite being different class they annoyingly started falling over, and such like.   Very professional as they say, and showed a discipline that went along with the talent.

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Croatian teams actually play their youth, they dont go loading players from english premiership reserve teams of sign players from fleetwood town and cambridge united. They give their young players a chance to develop and thats the difference.

Clubs here do not do that, they would rather sign some random foreign player, english lower league player or load a player rather than give youth a chance.

We have to find a way to stop that happening, maybe brexit will do that....

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8 minutes ago, jamboman said:

Croatian teams actually play their youth, they dont go loading players from english premiership reserve teams of sign players from fleetwood town and cambridge united. They give their young players a chance to develop and thats the difference.

Clubs here do not do that, they would rather sign some random foreign player, english lower league player or load a player rather than give youth a chance.

We have to find a way to stop that happening, maybe brexit will do that....

I get where you are coming from re Bosman and EU freedom of movement but i'm not sure it will turn out to be as simple as that  

 

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8 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Yes they had better technical ability but a bit of an exaggeration none the less emphasised by their performances in Finals tournaments

Their record against us also stunk - only beat us once in 8 attempts

So something has happened since 1990 that has pushed them on while we have been stagnant

It is possible that the style of play that they have had is more suited to the modern game but it must be more than that

 

 

Anybody else old enough to have been there that night... 1-0 down and came back to win 6-1 with 6 different scorers:

 

By the time of the qualifiers for the 1990 WC a few short years later they'd gone up several levels and Roxburgh was never done telling us how good they were and how us and France would be battling for 2nd place.  The players must've been scared sh1tless at them.

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21 hours ago, daviebee said:

Unfortunately there are a few reasons - the SFA, a total dinosaur manager and clubs who'd rather sign sh*te from the lower leagues in England or someone with a foreign name than give youngsters a chance.

Sort all that out (not much chance with the SFA as turkeys don't vote for Christmas) and we could certainly do it with a favourable draw.  I'd say it'd take 10-15 years to be challenging properly though.

Not holding my breath.  It's been a bit depressing watching this WC and seeing what also-rans we are.  :(

Totally agree. The main reason being the SFA. They have held us back for years. Totally clueless. We need to clear out the clowns who run our game.

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10 hours ago, daviebee said:

Anybody else old enough to have been there that night... 1-0 down and came back to win 6-1 with 6 different scorers:

...

By the time of the qualifiers for the 1990 WC a few short years later they'd gone up several levels and Roxburgh was never done telling us how good they were and how us and France would be battling for 2nd place.  The players must've been scared sh1tless at them.

Old enough?   I was married by then.   I was there - - my first game in a couple of years I think, as I was an armchair fan around that time.

Me and a pal just decided to go on the spur of the moment, and we were three or four up before I realised it was only a warm up game :unsure:   We sorted our heads out and came back for the Spain game shortly afterwards though.

I don't remember going to 1990 qualifiers, but see Yugoslavia got to the QF and went out on penalties to Argentina.   Don't remember that either though - - all those world cups are just a blur now.

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3 hours ago, Grim Jim said:

Old enough?   I was married by then.   I was there - - my first game in a couple of years I think, as I was an armchair fan around that time.

Me and a pal just decided to go on the spur of the moment, and we were three or four up before I realised it was only a warm up game :unsure:   We sorted our heads out and came back for the Spain game shortly afterwards though.

I don't remember going to 1990 qualifiers, but see Yugoslavia got to the QF and went out on penalties to Argentina.   Don't remember that either though - - all those world cups are just a blur now.

During Italia 90 there was already a lot of unrest regarding the upcoming war, some players were left at home and I'm sure the manager at the time received death threats.

All things considered they done remarkably well to reach the quarter finals. In addition to this they had a man sent off after 30 mins against Argentina. 

Went on to comfortably qualify for Euro 92 before being withdrawn from the tournament, the rest is history.

However, back to the topic. Yes, if Croatia can reach the latter stages of a major tournament there is absolutely no reason why we can't. The mind-set in this country will have to change first, the aim at the very least should be to WIN a tournament, otherwise we are simply wasting our time. Whether we ever WIN a tournament is another matter, but it should at the very least be our ambition to do so.

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16 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

I get where you are coming from re Bosman and EU freedom of movement but i'm not sure it will turn out to be as simple as that  

 

Likely not. I just think all this blame on the SFA is a bit much, yes grass routes level is way behind the "big" nations but i feel the clubs need to be looked at also for not giving young players a chance.

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2 hours ago, jamboman said:

Likely not. I just think all this blame on the SFA is a bit much, yes grass routes level is way behind the "big" nations but i feel the clubs need to be looked at also for not giving young players a chance.

I bet you weren't composing when Hearts were jam packed with Lithuanians

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Fucking predictive text.

I'm just going to completely ignore the word you just typed in, even though it's in the dictionary, and replace it with some other random word that makes no sense and doesn't remotely resemble what you typed. 

Edited by aaid
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As others have said, probably a whole mix of reasons we're far behind. Social, cultural, technical. Bit of everything.

Used to have high hopes for Project Brave or whatever new programme we are trying these days, but have come to conclusion that will probably just produce a steady stream of professional footballers who are excellent at predefined drills and exercises but struggle to have the natural ability to go on and be top level players. Physically, I dont think our players look as strong or athletic while mentally, I think most kids have had it too easy that the hard choices and sacrifices are too much for them - time and time again, our players struggle to transition to playing in different countries and often return with their tail between their legs. Some notable exceptions, Paul Lambert probably being the best example IMO. I think he became a far better player for his experience even though it was short:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/may/22/paul-lambert-motherwell-dortmund

Hard to see how today's generation would even get such an opportunity, but you wouldnt have confidence they could follow through on it.

Bottom line for me, we need to nurture athletes first and footballers second. As soon as kids can walk, get them involved in sports and games. Speed, coordination, balance, healthy eating, whatever. Let them have fun. As they grow older introduce simple conditioning and push their boundaries. After that, kids will find their sports naturally. If they choose football, brilliant. If not, rugby, golf, athletics is fine too.

Instead, we find 7/8 years and get them on contracts, tell them they can't play with their mates, and make them do drills every day of the week. Soul destroying.

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28 minutes ago, Auld_Reekie said:

As others have said, probably a whole mix of reasons we're far behind. Social, cultural, technical. Bit of everything.

Used to have high hopes for Project Brave or whatever new programme we are trying these days, but have come to conclusion that will probably just produce a steady stream of professional footballers who are excellent at predefined drills and exercises but struggle to have the natural ability to go on and be top level players. Physically, I dont think our players look as strong or athletic while mentally, I think most kids have had it too easy that the hard choices and sacrifices are too much for them - time and time again, our players struggle to transition to playing in different countries and often return with their tail between their legs. Some notable exceptions, Paul Lambert probably being the best example IMO. I think he became a far better player for his experience even though it was short:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/may/22/paul-lambert-motherwell-dortmund

Hard to see how today's generation would even get such an opportunity, but you wouldnt have confidence they could follow through on it.

Bottom line for me, we need to nurture athletes first and footballers second. As soon as kids can walk, get them involved in sports and games. Speed, coordination, balance, healthy eating, whatever. Let them have fun. As they grow older introduce simple conditioning and push their boundaries. After that, kids will find their sports naturally. If they choose football, brilliant. If not, rugby, golf, athletics is fine too.

Instead, we find 7/8 years and get them on contracts, tell them they can't play with their mates, and make them do drills every day of the week. Soul destroying.

Did you watch the Toulon Tournament? There is a fundamental change in our players.

We now have players techincally way better than recent generations and physically better, too. Gilmour, Cochrane, Johnston, McGregor and Morgan all have a very high level of technical ability, plus I expect Gauld and Burke to finally deliver this season. We have Armstrong, Tierney, Robertson, Griffiths plus young centre halves with pace and height. This is a time for optimism.

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Hey, Im more optimistic than I have been. But citing success because of Toulon Tournament fails to recognise that we've a long record of producing half decent teenagers who fail to sustain their development into their 20s. Physically or mentally, our players drop off the radar or turn into journeyman pros while players of other nations continue to develop. 

I'll give ye Tierney and Robertson, but yer no getting Armstrong or Griffiths. Definite potential but Armstrong still has plenty to prove and Griffiths still has to sustain a level if he wants to be anything other than a flash in the pan. I'd also find it massively disappointing if Tierney doesn't make a move to step up from Celtic in the next couple of years. 

Hopefully Gauld and Burke do something this season - anything - but there's no chance they're going to suddenly turn into world class players after grinding out the last couple. Will be happy to be proven wrong.

As for the others, still hopeful of great things - have seen them all show glimpses of genuine potential. But remember, the bar isn't to make it to Parkhead and see out a cosy career. We want players playing at the top leagues in Europe. For too long, the bar has been to make it to the Old Firm and that's part of the problem.

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1 hour ago, Auld_Reekie said:

Hey, Im more optimistic than I have been. But citing success because of Toulon Tournament fails to recognise that we've a long record of producing half decent teenagers who fail to sustain their development into their 20s. Physically or mentally, our players drop off the radar or turn into journeyman pros while players of other nations continue to develop. 

I'll give ye Tierney and Robertson, but yer no getting Armstrong or Griffiths. Definite potential but Armstrong still has plenty to prove and Griffiths still has to sustain a level if he wants to be anything other than a flash in the pan. I'd also find it massively disappointing if Tierney doesn't make a move to step up from Celtic in the next couple of years. 

Hopefully Gauld and Burke do something this season - anything - but there's no chance they're going to suddenly turn into world class players after grinding out the last couple. Will be happy to be proven wrong.

As for the others, still hopeful of great things - have seen them all show glimpses of genuine potential. But remember, the bar isn't to make it to Parkhead and see out a cosy career. We want players playing at the top leagues in Europe. For too long, the bar has been to make it to the Old Firm and that's part of the problem.

I certainly agree with the latter. Gilmour and Cochrane have enough talent to play at the very top level albeit they need to work hard, as do all players who want to get there. They seem like they want it.

Armstrong, McGregor and Griffiths would have got us qualified if they’d played the whole of the last campaign. 

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We need football authorities who will put young players, and the national team, at the forefront and clubs who will accept this.

 

In Scotland it simply won't happen.

 

We used to punch above our weight. Croatia (and Uruguay and Iceland and Denmark) have showing that punching above your weight is the new normal. Our punches are not even registering now.

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On 7/17/2018 at 10:16 AM, Auld_Reekie said:

Hey, Im more optimistic than I have been. But citing success because of Toulon Tournament fails to recognise that we've a long record of producing half decent teenagers who fail to sustain their development into their 20s. Physically or mentally, our players drop off the radar or turn into journeyman pros while players of other nations continue to develop. 

I'll give ye Tierney and Robertson, but yer no getting Armstrong or Griffiths. Definite potential but Armstrong still has plenty to prove and Griffiths still has to sustain a level if he wants to be anything other than a flash in the pan. I'd also find it massively disappointing if Tierney doesn't make a move to step up from Celtic in the next couple of years. 

Hopefully Gauld and Burke do something this season - anything - but there's no chance they're going to suddenly turn into world class players after grinding out the last couple. Will be happy to be proven wrong.

As for the others, still hopeful of great things - have seen them all show glimpses of genuine potential. But remember, the bar isn't to make it to Parkhead and see out a cosy career. We want players playing at the top leagues in Europe. For too long, the bar has been to make it to the Old Firm and that's part of the problem.

I genuinely feel very positive. All the good things that have happened to Croatia may be happening to us. The future is very bright. Ok, I'm not expecting world cup finals but I expect qualifications over the next 10 years.

Middleton, Johnston, Gilmour, Morgan, McTominay, Burke are coming through across the midfield that's already fairly strong. Henderson's future looks bright and who knows about Gauld. If several of these make it then they'll be joining McGregor and Armstrong and maybe force them out.

I think there's a bit too much pressure on McKenna as there's not huge number of young centre backs coming through. But if he makes it and Bates comes good we will changing our outlook.

Ok, I know It's all 'what Ifs' but I'm taking a moment to think positive. (My hero's just gone into yellow on thr TdeF so i'm on a high.)

And i know I've not mentioned the striker situation!

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