aaid Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, Chripper said: How anyone can question Leighton's ability is beyond me. Purely in a Scotland shirt, Leighton was better than Goram. Plus Goram ditched us prior to the 98 World Cup because he wasn't going to be No 1, so that gives Leighton the extra edge, for me. Really difficult to choose between Leighton and Goram. For me, Leighton was better over a longer period and his record of keeping clean sheets in 50% of over 90 matches is exceptional. That said for me, at there peaks Goram was the better of the two albeit over a shorter period. My understanding of circumstances over Goram walking in out of the squad in 1998 aren't as you describe. Alan Hodgkinson was lobbying hard for Goram to start but Brown hadn't made that decision at the point. I understand that Goram had financial, contractual and family issues that he had to resolve and I think subsequent revelations around his chaotic private life backs that up. Lets not forget that Leighton also walked out on Scotland halfway through a double header after being slated for a performance at Tynecastle. Edited December 4, 2018 by aaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, aaid said: Really difficult to choose between Leighton and Goram. For me, Leighton was better over a longer period and his record of keeping clean sheets in 50% of over 90 matches is exceptional. That said for me, at there peaks Goram was the better of the two albeit over a shorter period. My understanding of circumstances over Goram walking in out of the squad in 1998 aren't as you describe. Alan Hodgkinson was lobbying hard for Goram to start but Brown hadn't made that decision at the point. I understand that Goram had financial, contractual and family issues that he had to resolve and I think subsequent revelations around his chaotic private life backs that up. Lets not forget that Leighton also walked out on Scotland halfway through a double header after being slated for a performance at Tynecastle. Couldn't disagree with any of that. 1+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) On 12/3/2018 at 12:36 PM, Squirrelhumper said: They've a better chance than the dross you watch. With or without Shankland. Absolutely. With American owners perhaps coming in I fear the future is groundshare, merger and good night Vienna, sadly. Edited December 4, 2018 by adamntg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Why are Scottish domestic fans so terrified of ground sharing and/or mergers? Both Milan teams groundshare, but apparently Scottish clubs are too proud for that kind of thing. And as far as mergers go, if done properly, with the right investment, it could be a good thing. Wouldn't people rather support a club who is able to compete against the Old Firm rather than indulge in petty city rivalry? Apparently not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chripper said: And as far as mergers go, if done properly, with the right investment, it could be a good thing. Wouldn't people rather support a club who is able to compete against the Old Firm rather than indulge in petty city rivalry? Apparently not. Nope, never. Next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Just now, adamntg said: Nope, never. Next Typical Scottish attitude right there. Next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_McCole Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, Chripper said: Typical Scottish attitude right there. Next. How many examples can you actually give of successful mergers? Being honest, I'd imagine most people would have the same opinion as yer man above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, Chripper said: Why are Scottish domestic fans so terrified of ground sharing and/or mergers? Both Milan teams groundshare, but apparently Scottish clubs are too proud for that kind of thing. And as far as mergers go, if done properly, with the right investment, it could be a good thing. Wouldn't people rather support a club who is able to compete against the Old Firm rather than indulge in petty city rivalry? Apparently not. In worldwide football, I'm guessing that no more than one or two percent of clubs ground share. The only high profile cases I can think of off the top of my head are the two Milan and the two Rome clubs. In both these cases none of the club's own the ground, they are owned by the local councils. Juventus used to play in the municipal stadium but have now moved back to their own ground. It's completely normal for clubs to own their own grounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tartan_McCole said: How many examples can you actually give of successful mergers? Being honest, I'd imagine most people would have the same opinion as yer man above. Inverness Caledonian Thistle have had relative success. If it were both Dundee teams then who knows how well they'd do, or Ayr and Kilmarnock. Honestly, though, I think there are way too many teams in Scotland and the leagues are far too large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 minute ago, aaid said: In worldwide football, I'm guessing that no more than one or two percent of clubs ground share. The only high profile cases I can think of off the top of my head are the two Milan and the two Rome clubs. In both these cases none of the club's own the ground, they are owned by the local councils. Juventus used to play in the municipal stadium but have now moved back to their own ground. It's completely normal for clubs to own their own grounds. I know. But for one thing, it would free up money for both clubs to do as they please. Surely that's worthy of even considering it? I mean, look at both Dundee teams, the proximity of the stadiums is cringe-worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, Chripper said: Inverness Caledonian Thistle have had relative success. If it were both Dundee teams then who knows how well they'd do, or Ayr and Kilmarnock. Honestly, though, I think there are way too many teams in Scotland and the leagues are far too large. If you can't understand why fans wouldn't support their team merging with a rival then I'm sorry but you don't understand anything about football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrniaboc Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, aaid said: If you can't understand why fans wouldn't support their team merging with a rival then I'm sorry but you don't understand anything about football. Yeah, I don't know why Scotland don't just merge with England, Wales, and Northern Ireland to make a good strong UK team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_McCole Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Chripper said: Inverness Caledonian Thistle have had relative success. If it were both Dundee teams then who knows how well they'd do, or Ayr and Kilmarnock. Honestly, though, I think there are way too many teams in Scotland and the leagues are far too large. I'm not sure it working for ICT really justifies you saying that people against it are displaying a typical Scottish attitude. Fans of clubs worldwide would generally be against it. Edited December 4, 2018 by Tartan_McCole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrniaboc Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 22 minutes ago, mrniaboc said: Yeah, I don't know why Scotland don't just merge with England, Wales, and Northern Ireland to make a good strong UK team. PS: Yes, it should be Team UK, not Team GB. If there's one thing I don't stand for it's perpetuating geographical misnomers! But that's off topic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Chripper said: Why are Scottish domestic fans so terrified of ground sharing and/or mergers? Both Milan teams groundshare, but apparently Scottish clubs are too proud for that kind of thing. And as far as mergers go, if done properly, with the right investment, it could be a good thing. Wouldn't people rather support a club who is able to compete against the Old Firm rather than indulge in petty city rivalry? Apparently not. The stadium, for Scottish sides is a massive part of their identity. Killie do a vast amount of community work at the stadium on non match days. I could imagine sharing the stadium with another club (will never happen anyway as we are a one club town) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Chripper said: Inverness Caledonian Thistle have had relative success. If it were both Dundee teams then who knows how well they'd do, or Ayr and Kilmarnock. Honestly, though, I think there are way too many teams in Scotland and the leagues are far too large. if Killie and Ayr merged, I don't know one person (from either support) who'd continue to watch a merged side. I'd imagine the Dundee clubs would be exactly the same. It's a fucking daft idea. Inverness get less fans than a club from Dingwall with a population of about 5,000. I think explains it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Chripper said: I mean, look at both Dundee teams, the proximity of the stadiums is cringe-worthy. How exactly is it cringeworthy? Are Anfield/Goodison cringeworthy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, aaid said: but you don't understand anything about football. Nail on head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: How exactly is it cringeworthy? Are Anfield/Goodison cringeworthy? Red Star Belgrade and Partizan Belgrade's stadiums are only 10 minutes walk apart. I'd like to see anyone try to suggest they merge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_McCole Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Don't Italian national team fans batter eff out of eachother at Italy games because they hate other club fans that much? Imagine suggesting a merger to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, Tartan_McCole said: Don't Italian national team fans batter eff out of eachother at Italy games because they hate other club fans that much? Imagine suggesting a merger to them Aye, they certainly did in 2005 when we played in the San Siro. Think it was Atalanta and Verona or something. Was quite amusing, although was dodgy as fuck hanging over the 2nd tier watching it down below! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 So, it would appear that everyone is happy with the state of Scottish football, in general. Yeahhhh…. 👌 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrniaboc Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chripper said: So, it would appear that everyone is happy with the state of Scottish football, in general. Yeahhhh…. 👌 Not altogether, but if we play 3 at the back as a national team and merge all of the local rivals clubs in the country we should be on the right track, yeah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 minute ago, mrniaboc said: Not altogether, but if we play 3 at the back as a national team and merge all of the local rivals clubs in the country we should be on the right track, yeah? Of course. World peace will break out, too. Global warming will vanish and there'll also be rain in Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, Chripper said: So, it would appear that everyone is happy with the state of Scottish football, in general. Yeahhhh…. 👌 A lot happier than I would be than if my club merged with Ayr! Out of interest, who do you support and do you attend regularly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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