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Scottish Players in Action 18/19


PASTA Mick

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8 hours ago, andyD said:
  •  
  • Palmer, Liam (Sheff Wed) - 90 - 6.00
    Playing right wing back. Decent going forward, but still suspect defensively. Gave his man a bit too much space to cross, but that's partly because Wednesday struggled to handle Wigan's formation, meaning Palmer was 2v1 a few times. Still don't think he's international class at all, but aside from Paterson and O'Donnell I don't really see anyone doing better than Palmer, sadly.

Malky Mackay seems to be talking up Ryan Jack as a right back.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/malky-mackay-reveals-believes-scotlands-13042496

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2 minutes ago, Flure said:

Anyone of interest in this Forest V WBA match?

  • Scottish players for Nottm Forest: Daniel Fox
  • Scottish players for West Brom: Matt Phillips, James Morrison and Oliver Burke (bench).

Good to see Morrison back, after a lengthy injury (about a year?).

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43 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:
  • Scottish players for Nottm Forest: Daniel Fox
  • Scottish players for West Brom: Matt Phillips, James Morrison and Oliver Burke (bench).

Good to see Morrison back, after a lengthy injury (about a year?).

Let’s stop talking about Danny Fox

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4 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Bit worrying that Burke is still on the bench for west brom in the championship, surely he should consider his options as he is 21 now and needs to be playing every week to help his development.

Consider his options? If he can’t get a game for that lot In that league then what are those options? Oxford Utd, Bury?

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10 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Bit worrying that Burke is still on the bench for west brom in the championship, surely he should consider his options as he is 21 now and needs to be playing every week to help his development.

We are two games into the season!!

Last year there were folk saying Robertson should leave Liverpool in the January window. 

How about letting the season get going and see where we are next year. 

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6 hours ago, macy37 said:

Consider his options? If he can’t get a game for that lot In that league then what are those options? Oxford Utd, Bury?

Well I wouldn't say he's not good enough for that league but he's not getting the game time at West brom for whatever reason. Better for him to move to a team that will play him, another championship team would happy take him imo.

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1 hour ago, PASTA Mick said:

We are two games into the season!!

Last year there were folk saying Robertson should leave Liverpool in the January window. 

How about letting the season get going and see where we are next year. 

Yes but the guy has hardly played football his whole career, he's at a stage where he needs games. Robertson had been playing football for 3/4 years straight before moving to Liverpool. Burke has barely played half a season.

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Thanks for that.  Given that they seem to get data from Opta that's encouraging however there's a fundamental problem with statistics like these is that they tend to concentrate on when a player is "actively" involved in the game with things like pass completion rates,  tackles won, distance cleared etc.   While all that's important if you think that in the average game the ball is in play for around 60 minutes, players will generally be either on the ball or directly impacting the ball for around a 10th of that.   So do these stats cover important aspects of "off the ball" play such as forwards making runs to open up space for others, midfielders tracking their runners, a goalkeeper organising his defence so that he *doesn't* have to make a save in the first place.

Giving extra points for man of the match is just a total joke as who decides that?   I was once fortunate enough to have corporate hospitality through work at a Chelsea v Newcastle EPL game.  As part of that we got to pick the man of the match.  We were basically told "who would you like to meet after the game".  We obviously chose Zola who was the big star at the time.   It was one of those games where no one really stood out, Chelsea had won and Zola had scored one of the goals so it wasn't that controversial a decision but it was still just the opinion of a group of random guys.

Given all that though, any empirical data is still a better basis for analysis than the random musings of punters on Internet forums or worse still, Twitter.   However, like all data, it's useless without context.

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15 hours ago, SkyBlueScot said:

Sounds a bit like he's using Gerrard's praise of Jack in central midfield to justify playing him at right back against Holland. That's about as much sense as you'll get out of Malky tho it seems. Why he feels the need to now justify playing Jack at right back is a mystery.. no one cares.

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42 minutes ago, andyD said:

Sounds a bit like he's using Gerrard's praise of Jack in central midfield to justify playing him at right back against Holland. That's about as much sense as you'll get out of Malky tho it seems. Why he feels the need to now justify playing Jack at right back is a mystery.. no one cares.

I'll get slagged for this no doubt but I'd be more than pissed off if SOD/Paterson got punted out the team and Jack shoehorned in.

Would make perfect Scottish sense, have a player play 180 minutes at right back in friendlies away to Peru & Mexico and is an actual right back who can bomb forward and punt him out the team/squad and replace him with somebody shoehorned into his position!

Edited by Squirrelhumper
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1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I'll get slagged for this no doubt but I'd be more than pissed off if SOD/Paterson got punted out the team and Jack shoehorned in.

Would make perfect Scottish sense, have a player play 180 minutes at right back in friendlies away to Peru & Mexico and is an actual right back who can bomb forward and punt him out the team/squad and replace him with somebody shoehorned into his position!

I'm on board with you on that one. O'Donnell isn't perfect, but he showed enough going forward and didn't do much wrong at the back in those two games. I'd have him in the squad going forward as a right back option, along side Paterson.

Paterson's future is going to be curious. If he plays the coming season as a central midfielder in the premier league.. then.. how long can we keep using him at right back? he'll slowly become Jack.. a center mid who used to be a right back. That could pose us problems in a year or two.

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13 minutes ago, andyD said:

I'm on board with you on that one. O'Donnell isn't perfect, but he showed enough going forward and didn't do much wrong at the back in those two games. I'd have him in the squad going forward as a right back option, along side Paterson.

Paterson's future is going to be curious. If he plays the coming season as a central midfielder in the premier league.. then.. how long can we keep using him at right back? he'll slowly become Jack.. a center mid who used to be a right back. That could pose us problems in a year or two.

He can’t defend.  He’s not a right back.

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30 minutes ago, andyD said:

I'm on board with you on that one. O'Donnell isn't perfect, but he showed enough going forward and didn't do much wrong at the back in those two games. I'd have him in the squad going forward as a right back option, along side Paterson.

Paterson's future is going to be curious. If he plays the coming season as a central midfielder in the premier league.. then.. how long can we keep using him at right back? he'll slowly become Jack.. a center mid who used to be a right back. That could pose us problems in a year or two.

In the paper at the weekend fans of each team talked about the coming season and picked their first XI. It was interesting to see the Cardiff fan didn't include Paterson.

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4 hours ago, SkyBlueScot said:

In the paper at the weekend fans of each team talked about the coming season and picked their first XI. It was interesting to see the Cardiff fan didn't include Paterson.

I'm guessing he picked Bobby Reid in attacking mid?

They just shelled out 10m on him, so i can understand that.. Neither Reid nor Paterson have played at Premiership level, so will be interesting to see who comes out the winner in that fight. I good for Paterson to have someone pushing him. You've got to imagine that both will get an opportunity, so it's up to Callum to make the most of it.

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9 hours ago, aaid said:

Thanks for that.  Given that they seem to get data from Opta that's encouraging however there's a fundamental problem with statistics like these is that they tend to concentrate on when a player is "actively" involved in the game with things like pass completion rates,  tackles won, distance cleared etc.   While all that's important if you think that in the average game the ball is in play for around 60 minutes, players will generally be either on the ball or directly impacting the ball for around a 10th of that.   So do these stats cover important aspects of "off the ball" play such as forwards making runs to open up space for others, midfielders tracking their runners, a goalkeeper organising his defence so that he *doesn't* have to make a save in the first place.

Giving extra points for man of the match is just a total joke as who decides that?   I was once fortunate enough to have corporate hospitality through work at a Chelsea v Newcastle EPL game.  As part of that we got to pick the man of the match.  We were basically told "who would you like to meet after the game".  We obviously chose Zola who was the big star at the time.   It was one of those games where no one really stood out, Chelsea had won and Zola had scored one of the goals so it wasn't that controversial a decision but it was still just the opinion of a group of random guys.

Given all that though, any empirical data is still a better basis for analysis than the random musings of punters on Internet forums or worse still, Twitter.   However, like all data, it's useless without context.

As you say lots of areas of a players input can't be measured, the goal keeper one is interesting although adjustments are made depending on clean sheets but it still seems easier to get higher ratings if you are letting goals for a weaker team but making some saves. The further up the pitch you are the easier it is to score points but at the same time you can still compare defenders.

I do think it's useful to determine  if a player is in form based on previous ratings though and possibly to find their best positions'

Ryan Fraser being a typical example as he played just about every where last season and seemed ok in all positions which is why I am overly interested in the fact he finished the season at right back. And that Patterson isn't a right back but we knew that.

They also show that certain players in the championship just don't have it for the premiership 

From what I have seen the MoM is the player with the highest score after 90 minutes if two are equal some body some where might decide but I doubt if that happens often with the ratings measure to a decimal point. No points are added for it as far as I can see.

Noticed last night that the Turkish and American top leagues are also covered Barry Douglas was above average in Turkey and Johnny Russel is above average in the States.

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On 8/8/2018 at 4:59 AM, Squirrelhumper said:

I'll get slagged for this no doubt but I'd be more than pissed off if SOD/Paterson got punted out the team and Jack shoehorned in.

Would make perfect Scottish sense, have a player play 180 minutes at right back in friendlies away to Peru & Mexico and is an actual right back who can bomb forward and punt him out the team/squad and replace him with somebody shoehorned into his position!

No slagging from me. I’d have O’ Donnell starting our next game. I liked the look of him in the Americas. 

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