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Scottish player transfers


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17 minutes ago, borojock said:

Arguable the same level and standard of football he has been playing at already 

You don’t see league 1 teams in Europe. Or beating the old firm.

I don’t think he’s good enough for us anyway so not fussed if he’s happy to go down there for the money good luck to him. 

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1 hour ago, ProudScot said:

You don’t see league 1 teams in Europe. Or beating the old firm.

I don’t think he’s good enough for us anyway so not fussed if he’s happy to go down there for the money good luck to him. 

Take Celtic and to some level Rangers out of it .

Run me down the Scottish Clubs European record over the last few years - it doesnt make good reading 

How many teams beat Celtic - not many 

Rangers for the last few years have been at lower half english championship standard 

I honestly dont think you can rule english league 1 teams out if you are pushing for players from Kilmarnock, Motherwell, Dundee etc as in my opinion those guys are at the same standard  

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With AFC Wimbledon in League one I get a chance to watch a bit of it, and its a really Jekyll and Hyde with it being almost 3 or 4 mini leagues in one big league.....

Sunderland (on paper) should continue Wolves, Wigan and Blackburns trend and go straight back up without breaking any kind of sweat, but saying that, it took Sheffield United 7 years to get out of League One (I have seen Wimbledon go to places like Wigan and Blackburn and come away with points, then struggle all season against the likes of Bury and Rochdale).

I would say there is maybe 4 or 5 teams who could go toe to toe with the top flight clubs in Scotland, but lower down league One you go, the worse the football gets (I think AFCW would struggle to beat most Scottish Championship clubs).

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On 7/3/2018 at 8:44 AM, ProudScot said:

I don’t think he’s good enough for us anyway so not fussed if he’s happy to go down there for the money good luck to him. 

Exactly, McGeough should be a very long way from the squad, so not fussed where he plays.

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57 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Is it fuck.

League 1 is utter dross.

And the SPL is full of such high class players, awesome training facilities and good managers which such an impressive recent European record

Taking away Celtic and Rangers which leaves the vast majority of the SPL clubs

Players -

If the players in the SPL move south the majority move to league 1 or 2 level and often they can struggle at that level eg Stephen O'Donnell and Jack Hendry who struggled at that level and then return north and look good enough in our league to get a national call up. What about the Scottish lads that moved to Championship level last season Mallan, Cummings, McKay - they all failed

And what level of players come up to the SPL have a look through this summers english transfers up north and you will see players joining the SPL from such stellar clubs such as Peterborough, Kidderminister Harriers, Woking. Gateshead, Truro, Grimsby, Luton, Cambridge etc all of league 1 standard or below if they were any good they would go to english championship teams not SPL teams. I dont believe any first team championship player has moved north this season. The significant majority of english premiership and championship players that go up north are young lads starting out on their career that need first team experience and probably roughing up a bit.  

Training Facilities -

How many of our teams have purpose built modern state of the art training facilities & how many of them train at local college or park. I bet if you compared the League One training facilities vs our clubs you'd find they are a lot better for player development 

I'd love to hear your rational argument how the SPL is any better than league One. I would agree Celtic are English Premiership standard, Rangers English Championship mid table standard. But the rest of the teams are operating at League One status

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2 hours ago, borojock said:

And the SPL is full of such high class players, awesome training facilities and good managers which such an impressive recent European record

Taking away Celtic and Rangers which leaves the vast majority of the SPL clubs

Players -

If the players in the SPL move south the majority move to league 1 or 2 level and often they can struggle at that level eg Stephen O'Donnell and Jack Hendry who struggled at that level and then return north and look good enough in our league to get a national call up. What about the Scottish lads that moved to Championship level last season Mallan, Cummings, McKay - they all failed

And what level of players come up to the SPL have a look through this summers english transfers up north and you will see players joining the SPL from such stellar clubs such as Peterborough, Kidderminister Harriers, Woking. Gateshead, Truro, Grimsby, Luton, Cambridge etc all of league 1 standard or below if they were any good they would go to english championship teams not SPL teams. I dont believe any first team championship player has moved north this season. The significant majority of english premiership and championship players that go up north are young lads starting out on their career that need first team experience and probably roughing up a bit.  

Training Facilities -

How many of our teams have purpose built modern state of the art training facilities & how many of them train at local college or park. I bet if you compared the League One training facilities vs our clubs you'd find they are a lot better for player development 

I'd love to hear your rational argument how the SPL is any better than league One. I would agree Celtic are English Premiership standard, Rangers English Championship mid table standard. But the rest of the teams are operating at League One status

 

You write off Aberdeen who have finished above Rangers twice in two seasons as League One, yet somehow they've deservedly finished above them both seasons Rangers have been in the Premiership?

 

The top 4 teams of last season in the Premiership in Scotland were easily better than League One level. League One and the Championship in England are mainly league where strength and height are of value, hence the likes of Mallin, Cummings and McKay struggling to make an impact. By contrast, I've watched a number of loanees from the English system come up here and absolutely fail. From watching Aberdeen, Alan Tate, Chidi Nawalkali, Dom Ball, Jeffrey Monakana and more have failed here.

 

The fact of the matter is it is generally subjective, and different players thrive in different styles of league. So let's just use what we have as a national team and aim for them to play at the top few clubs in Scotland, the EPL, top flights abroad or the upper end of the English Championship.

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26 minutes ago, BucksburnDandy said:

 

You write off Aberdeen who have finished above Rangers twice in two seasons as League One, yet somehow they've deservedly finished above them both seasons Rangers have been in the Premiership?

 

The top 4 teams of last season in the Premiership in Scotland were easily better than League One level. League One and the Championship in England are mainly league where strength and height are of value, hence the likes of Mallin, Cummings and McKay struggling to make an impact. By contrast, I've watched a number of loanees from the English system come up here and absolutely fail. From watching Aberdeen, Alan Tate, Chidi Nawalkali, Dom Ball, Jeffrey Monakana and more have failed here.

 

The fact of the matter is it is generally subjective, and different players thrive in different styles of league. So let's just use what we have as a national team and aim for them to play at the top few clubs in Scotland, the EPL, top flights abroad or the upper end of the English Championship.

I would agree with that.

There have been players playing in Scotland who moved to England and performed better there and on the other side of the coin there have been players who have done well in England but moved to a Scottish club and they did not perform so well.

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2 hours ago, borojock said:

And the SPL is full of such high class players, awesome training facilities and good managers which such an impressive recent European record

Taking away Celtic and Rangers which leaves the vast majority of the SPL clubs

Players -

If the players in the SPL move south the majority move to league 1 or 2 level and often they can struggle at that level eg Stephen O'Donnell and Jack Hendry who struggled at that level and then return north and look good enough in our league to get a national call up. What about the Scottish lads that moved to Championship level last season Mallan, Cummings, McKay - they all failed

And what level of players come up to the SPL have a look through this summers english transfers up north and you will see players joining the SPL from such stellar clubs such as Peterborough, Kidderminister Harriers, Woking. Gateshead, Truro, Grimsby, Luton, Cambridge etc all of league 1 standard or below if they were any good they would go to english championship teams not SPL teams. I dont believe any first team championship player has moved north this season. The significant majority of english premiership and championship players that go up north are young lads starting out on their career that need first team experience and probably roughing up a bit.  

Training Facilities -

How many of our teams have purpose built modern state of the art training facilities & how many of them train at local college or park. I bet if you compared the League One training facilities vs our clubs you'd find they are a lot better for player development 

I'd love to hear your rational argument how the SPL is any better than league One. I would agree Celtic are English Premiership standard, Rangers English Championship mid table standard. But the rest of the teams are operating at League One status

What a pile of ill informed pish.

Training facilities - Killie are bulding a purpose built training facility and are currently at a training camp in La Manga - how many league 1 sides are at training camps in Spain? Hibs,  Rangers, Celtc, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Falkirk etc all have purpose built training facilities.

You've used SOD as an example - I could give countless others of players coming from League 1 and being utter shite up here. Same way there's players being utter shite up here and being stand outs at League 1 level after leaving. Kieran Agard being a class example - he was utter shite at Killie.  Matt Kennedy was a flop at Hibs but was a success at Plymouth/Pompey.  Could give you an endless list.

League 1 probably has more money due to TV but the standard is utter pish. The stadiums are pish compared to the SPL too.

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40 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

What a pile of ill informed pish.

Training facilities - Killie are bulding a purpose built training facility and are currently at a training camp in La Manga - how many league 1 sides are at training camps in Spain? Hibs,  Rangers, Celtc, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Falkirk etc all have purpose built training facilities.

You've used SOD as an example - I could give countless others of players coming from League 1 and being utter shite up here. Same way there's players being utter shite up here and being stand outs at League 1 level after leaving. Kieran Agard being a class example - he was utter shite at Killie.  Matt Kennedy was a flop at Hibs but was a success at Plymouth/Pompey.  Could give you an endless list.

League 1 probably has more money due to TV but the standard is utter pish. The stadiums are pish compared to the SPL too.

AFC Wimbledon head out to Spain every summer for starters, and we are considered the leagues poorest side (as we have the smallest budget).

League One teams get very little from tv, as Sky rarely show League One games (IIRC sky do it on a game by game basis with £30k for the home team and £10k for the away team) so it’s not a rich league.

stadiums... Fleetwood spent £15m on just a stand when they were in the conference, AFC Wimbledon have started work on a new 20k stadium (initial capacity of 11k) and most the stadiums are not all that “pish”... Sunderland, Oxford, Doncaster, Blackpool, Barnsley, Charlton, Bradford, Coventry and Plymouth are just as good, if not better than anything in Scotland, plus Burton, Shrewsbury, Walsall have tidy little grounds, with really only Wimbledon, Accrington and Luton with poor stadium.

Training facities - AFC Wimbledon train all over the place, with a local school their main training base, and a lot of other clubs are same (can not think of many with their own private facilities).

Edited by wanderer
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1 hour ago, BucksburnDandy said:

 

You write off Aberdeen who have finished above Rangers twice in two seasons as League One, yet somehow they've deservedly finished above them both seasons Rangers have been in the Premiership?

 

The top 4 teams of last season in the Premiership in Scotland were easily better than League One level. League One and the Championship in England are mainly league where strength and height are of value, hence the likes of Mallin, Cummings and McKay struggling to make an impact. By contrast, I've watched a number of loanees from the English system come up here and absolutely fail. From watching Aberdeen, Alan Tate, Chidi Nawalkali, Dom Ball, Jeffrey Monakana and more have failed here.

 

The fact of the matter is it is generally subjective, and different players thrive in different styles of league. So let's just use what we have as a national team and aim for them to play at the top few clubs in Scotland, the EPL, top flights abroad or the upper end of the English Championship.

Valid point on the Aberdeen one give you that one and could see why you could strongly argue that point.

However my own personal point of view is the reason i didnt include Aberdeen is there Manager failed at a lower championship team they significantly declined under him, and as well as a league 1 manager they have lots of league 1 standard players in their squad 

Joe Lewis - Played most of his career games in league 2 and 1, when been in the championship didnt real play apart from 2 seasons when he got relegated. In the SPL looks great 

Shay Logan - Most of his games came in league 1

Chris Forrester - New player read a lot about how hes going to be the answer to Christie going, league 1 and league of Ireland experience

Adam Rooney - Scores a few goals in the SPL looks good and is quite well respected, didnt do so well in the championship with Birmingham is in all essence a league 1 player 

Nial McGinn - Brentford who he played for in League 1 for one season didnt even fancy him

Greg Tansey - Come on this is making my argument too easy now 

Sam Cosgrove - See Above

Stevie May - Failed in the chamionship

Which Aberdeen players do you honestly think Championship teams are looking to buy this season 

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You say the top 4 in the SPL last season were easily better then league 1 i agree with Rangers and Celtic but disagree with Aberdeen and Hibs. Look at where Hibs central midfielder who was getting all that praise last season has moved to. League 1 and a basket case of a club as well. If a championship team were seriously interested in him he would have gone there, but they werent 

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The players that you say you have watched fail in the SPL all are young players none of them were established players 

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53 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

What a pile of ill informed pish.

Training facilities - Killie are bulding a purpose built training facility and are currently at a training camp in La Manga - how many league 1 sides are at training camps in Spain? Hibs,  Rangers, Celtc, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Falkirk etc all have purpose built training facilities.

You've used SOD as an example - I could give countless others of players coming from League 1 and being utter shite up here. Same way there's players being utter shite up here and being stand outs at League 1 level after leaving. Kieran Agard being a class example - he was utter shite at Killie.  Matt Kennedy was a flop at Hibs but was a success at Plymouth/Pompey.  Could give you an endless list.

League 1 probably has more money due to TV but the standard is utter pish. The stadiums are pish compared to the SPL too.

I dont have any evidence and this is a gut feeling but i would say league 1 does have a lot more then the SPL clubs other than Rangers and Celtic.

I bet the league 1 clubs pay higher wages, bigger transfer fees, have better stadiums and better training facilities, more extensive coaching team and better players. And thats why i think all SPL clubs apart from Rangers and Celtic are League 1 standard

Maybe i should have reworded my argument and said the SPL is not championship standard - as that is extremely easy to argue 

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Does anyone else think McGinn will just waste away on the celtic bench.

Look at the midfield - Brown, Ntcham Mcgregor, rogic, Bitton they are also looking at another guy harry wilson. He will be lucky to start 10 games for them.

Celtic seem to be a graveyard for young scottish player at other clubs. I see Morgan and Christie going the same way. Scott Allen is exhibit A on this.

Northern Ireland have a lot of players in league 1 in England but at least they are playing!!

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36 minutes ago, borojock said:

I dont have any evidence and this is a gut feeling but i would say league 1 does have a lot more then the SPL clubs other than Rangers and Celtic.

I bet the league 1 clubs pay higher wages, bigger transfer fees, have better stadiums and better training facilities, more extensive coaching team and better players. And thats why i think all SPL clubs apart from Rangers and Celtic are League 1 standard

Maybe i should have reworded my argument and said the SPL is not championship standard - as that is extremely easy to argue 

Given League One is a 24 team league, its a real mixed bag......

Its not as bad as Squirrelhumper makes out, but also its not as good as you are making out.

As said, its a pretty big league, and you do have some pretty well run clubs in there (AFC Wimbledon made £1m from the sale of 17 year old goalkeeper last summer to Hull City.... and Peterborough have made something like £30m in last 5 or 6 years on transfers of some of their bargain basement signings that they sell on).... but you also do get a lot of clubs like MK Dongs who spunk money against a wall on stupid wages on big wages to players (plus show off their fancy 25k stadium that they get crowds of 5k for home games.....).

Most the clubs who come down from the Championship are teams who still have their EPL parachute payments, so its no wonder most of them go straight back up.

Its a two way argument though, as take what Squirrlhumper is saying and replace "League One" with "Scottish Football", and you have exact same argument on League One forums (AFCW fans were going nuts when Ade Azeez signed for Thistles, as they could not comprehend that Scottish football has money.... and a number of fans actually think we have a chance of getting Harry Forrester on a full time deal, when Rangers were paying most his wages while on loan last season).

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15 minutes ago, jamboman said:

Does anyone else think McGinn will just waste away on the celtic bench.

Look at the midfield - Brown, Ntcham Mcgregor, rogic, Bitton they are also looking at another guy harry wilson. He will be lucky to start 10 games for them.

Celtic seem to be a graveyard for young scottish player at other clubs. I see Morgan and Christie going the same way. Scott Allen is exhibit A on this.

Northern Ireland have a lot of players in league 1 in England but at least they are playing!!

I get where you are coming from, and maybe a number of years ago I would have agreed, but Rodgers attitude of giving youth (and especially Scottish) a chance is encouraging.

Christie I suspect will be loaned or moved on, but think Morgan will be around for the season starting, with situation reviewed in January (where he might be loaned out)

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4 hours ago, jamboman said:

Does anyone else think McGinn will just waste away on the celtic bench.

Look at the midfield - Brown, Ntcham Mcgregor, rogic, Bitton they are also looking at another guy harry wilson. He will be lucky to start 10 games for them.

Celtic seem to be a graveyard for young scottish player at other clubs. I see Morgan and Christie going the same way. Scott Allen is exhibit A on this.

Northern Ireland have a lot of players in league 1 in England but at least they are playing!!

 

I don’t think McGinn has signed for Celtic, has he?  He is definitely not good enough for a regular start for Celtic.  He would be better signing for Rangers or a championship club if he wants a game.

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1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Craig Bryson to Cardiff for £1.75m.

Nice 250k for Killie.

Good deal for all concerned. He gets a shot at the Premier league and Derby probobly got his best years. 

By all accounts he's not that keen on the move,  but he's one of the high earners and the Derby have to sell before buying.   

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8 hours ago, wanderer said:

Given League One is a 24 team league, its a real mixed bag......

Its not as bad as Squirrelhumper makes out, but also its not as good as you are making out.

As said, its a pretty big league, and you do have some pretty well run clubs in there (AFC Wimbledon made £1m from the sale of 17 year old goalkeeper last summer to Hull City.... and Peterborough have made something like £30m in last 5 or 6 years on transfers of some of their bargain basement signings that they sell on).... but you also do get a lot of clubs like MK Dongs who spunk money against a wall on stupid wages on big wages to players (plus show off their fancy 25k stadium that they get crowds of 5k for home games.....).

Most the clubs who come down from the Championship are teams who still have their EPL parachute payments, so its no wonder most of them go straight back up.

Its a two way argument though, as take what Squirrlhumper is saying and replace "League One" with "Scottish Football", and you have exact same argument on League One forums (AFCW fans were going nuts when Ade Azeez signed for Thistles, as they could not comprehend that Scottish football has money.... and a number of fans actually think we have a chance of getting Harry Forrester on a full time deal, when Rangers were paying most his wages while on loan last season).

And pretty useless for Thistle he was too.  Ditto Mathias Pogba, who also scored fairly regularly in the lower tiers of he English league.

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16 hours ago, borojock said:

Valid point on the Aberdeen one give you that one and could see why you could strongly argue that point.

However my own personal point of view is the reason i didnt include Aberdeen is there Manager failed at a lower championship team they significantly declined under him, and as well as a league 1 manager they have lots of league 1 standard players in their squad 

Joe Lewis - Played most of his career games in league 2 and 1, when been in the championship didnt real play apart from 2 seasons when he got relegated. In the SPL looks great 

Shay Logan - Most of his games came in league 1

Chris Forrester - New player read a lot about how hes going to be the answer to Christie going, league 1 and league of Ireland experience

Adam Rooney - Scores a few goals in the SPL looks good and is quite well respected, didnt do so well in the championship with Birmingham is in all essence a league 1 player 

Nial McGinn - Brentford who he played for in League 1 for one season didnt even fancy him

Greg Tansey - Come on this is making my argument too easy now 

Sam Cosgrove - See Above

Stevie May - Failed in the chamionship

Which Aberdeen players do you honestly think Championship teams are looking to buy this season 

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You say the top 4 in the SPL last season were easily better then league 1 i agree with Rangers and Celtic but disagree with Aberdeen and Hibs. Look at where Hibs central midfielder who was getting all that praise last season has moved to. League 1 and a basket case of a club as well. If a championship team were seriously interested in him he would have gone there, but they werent 

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The players that you say you have watched fail in the SPL all are young players none of them were established players 

 

Alan Tate had played for Swansea for years and was previously captain there.

 

Sorry to say it but your view of the strength of Rangers is quite outdated given that they have been inferior to Aberdeen and quite a long way off Celtic. At the moment Rangers are a similar quality level to Hibs and Aberdeen.

 

Given the money that the bigger teams in League One can pay, it's no surprise that lads like McGeouch choose to go down there. On McInnes, he is limited but all the Bristol City fans I have spoken to have said he literally had no chance given the budget was cut by 75% months after he kept them up then by 75% again the following season.

 

Ultimately different players suit different leagues.

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