Scottish player transfers

[er yir macaroon]

Six months ago very few people on this forum had even heard of Lowry. It’s a bit much to be now slating the Rangers management for not playing him every week (as frustrating as it is). He’ll get plenty minutes next season, especially if he fills out a bit more. That said, he should have come on in extra time in the Europa league final. 

[Malcolm]

3 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I agree with the first sentence but that is about it. As others have pointed out when played Lowry has impressed with MOTM performances, goals and assists. Can the same be said of ancient Steven Davis who they are happy to give out another contract to even though he is closer to 40 than 30 or Scott Arfield - also to be given a new contract? And Rangers have spent recently and bought dross such as Itten so it is no guarantee it is no way forward.

Manchester United made an unbeatable team out of home grown players in the 1990s so it can work.

yeah, it’s slightly different now though.  30 years ago, sky money hadn’t quite revolutionised the game, and players like scholes, beckham, Neville came through but they were still playing alongside seasoned pros.  

Nothing wrong with giving older players contracts.  Sandy Jardine won POTY in Scotland with Hearts at 37.  Dino Zoff won the World Cup at 40.

Im sure Lowry will get his chance and if he consistently turns in man of the match performances will stay in the side.

[Diamond Scot]

49 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

yeah, it’s slightly different now though.  30 years ago, sky money hadn’t quite revolutionised the game, and players like scholes, beckham, Neville came through but they were still playing alongside seasoned pros.  

Nothing wrong with giving older players contracts.  Sandy Jardine won POTY in Scotland with Hearts at 37.  Dino Zoff won the World Cup at 40.

Im sure Lowry will get his chance and if he consistently turns in man of the match performances will stay in the side.

Surely 2 motm in a row should merit another league appearence within 3 months?

The trouble is Rangers have too many experiened players to provide game time too. This wont change next season and thats the reason why youth wont get a proper chance, regardless of how well they perform. Its always easier to appease a young player than it is a seasoned pro who you are paying good money in wages.

The youth will bide their time under the promise that their time will come. Yet it never will until theres a huge shift in mentality. I really hope that will be under GVB for Rangers but ive seen nothing to suggest that it will.

Ange gives me much more hope at Celtic in terms of taking a different approach. Theres no doubt that he will defo spend but he seems like the type of person who dances to the beat of his own drum. Im not sure what prospects Celtic have atm though with Doak leaving.

[Blantyre_Braveheart]

You all do realise if Davis re-signs it won't affect Lowry's playtime. Davis is a CDM and Lowry is a CAM who can play out wide. Aribo staying would be the thing that affects Lowry's playtime. 

People also do realise King and Lowry are only 18. It's not like they are 20/21 and just breaking in. 

Lowry still has massive work needed on the physical side. He will get game time but People need to be patient with his development. Same with King. They are teenagers, very few teenagers are regular starters at even comparable levels to our league.

 

If Lowry and King are regular starters by the time they are 20/21, I'll be very happy.

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Blantyre_Braveheart

[Caledonian Craig]

5 hours ago, Blantyre_Braveheart said:

You all do realise if Davis re-signs it won't affect Lowry's playtime. Davis is a CDM and Lowry is a CAM who can play out wide. Aribo staying would be the thing that affects Lowry's playtime. 

People also do realise King and Lowry are only 18. It's not like they are 20/21 and just breaking in. 

Lowry still has massive work needed on the physical side. He will get game time but People need to be patient with his development. Same with King. They are teenagers, very few teenagers are regular starters at even comparable levels to our league.

 

If Lowry and King are regular starters by the time they are 20/21, I'll be very happy.

 

No sorry I disagree. Professional footballers who make it big do not just break into league sides at 20 or 21. Look at the very best such as Michael Owen, Gareth Bale, Phil Foden, Paul Gascoigne, George Best and stacks more broke through around 17 not 20 or 21. Not developing youth players and integrating them into your side is a kop out and fails on several levels. It signifies a waste of money spent on their youth system. It will mean, no doubt, the club shelling out money to bring players in who can and often do turn out to be flops losing the club money and it does not fill the youth coming through with any confidence that will get a fair crack of the whip.

[Blantyre_Braveheart]

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

No sorry I disagree. Professional footballers who make it big do not just break into league sides at 20 or 21. Look at the very best such as Michael Owen, Gareth Bale, Phil Foden, Paul Gascoigne, George Best and stacks more broke through around 17 not 20 or 21. Not developing youth players and integrating them into your side is a kop out and fails on several levels. It signifies a waste of money spent on their youth system. It will mean, no doubt, the club shelling out money to bring players in who can and often do turn out to be flops losing the club money and it does not fill the youth coming through with any confidence that will get a fair crack of the whip.

Your first example is one of the main reasons to avoid overplaying young players. While we in Scotland have our own examples over at Celtic. Tierney is lucky to play 60% of his club games a season now.

You have to be careful with player development. 

BTW I'm not talking about not playing them, I just think people are being unrealistic and wanting them playing most games. I'm talking about 15-20 starts 15-20+ sub appearances next season. This is what Foden, Bale were doing at 18/19.

[Scots_Wha_Hae]

9 hours ago, Blantyre_Braveheart said:

You all do realise if Davis re-signs it won't affect Lowry's playtime. Davis is a CDM and Lowry is a CAM who can play out wide. Aribo staying would be the thing that affects Lowry's playtime. 

People also do realise King and Lowry are only 18. It's not like they are 20/21 and just breaking in. 

Lowry still has massive work needed on the physical side. He will get game time but People need to be patient with his development. Same with King. They are teenagers, very few teenagers are regular starters at even comparable levels to our league.

 

If Lowry and King are regular starters by the time they are 20/21, I'll be very happy.

 

This is about pathways. If you are Lowry and are offered more money at a club in a bigger league with better coaches and a clearer pathway why would you turn it down? The conversation started because Wilson has apparently left at 16 to pursue opportunities elsewhere which is a consequence of all the examples above. It doesn't matter if the examples given play in the specific position Lowry or Wilson does, it's about the general feeling amongst younger players that there are opportunities where they are. We are talking about Rangers specifically here as they appear to have the best prospects at the moment, but the same is true of Celtic (Doak, Morrison, Hepburn) and many of the other clubs in the pyramid too. We are finally producing good young players again but there appears to be a lack of strategy to actually bring them into the professional environment and, as such, they are leaving. 

[Hertsscot]

I'm not too bothered with Rangers offering short term new contracts to older players like Davis and Arfield and I don't think they're necessarily detrimental to teenage prospects. Few very teenagers are going to play every game and players of a similar quality to the likes of Arfield and Davis would be more expensive and being younger would block a teenagers progression. Furthermore players who have a level of professionalism like Arfield and Davis must be a fantastic influence on teenage players in terms of the way they look after themselves and the standards they set. 

[Diamond Scot]

10 hours ago, Blantyre_Braveheart said:

You all do realise if Davis re-signs it won't affect Lowry's playtime. Davis is a CDM and Lowry is a CAM who can play out wide. Aribo staying would be the thing that affects Lowry's playtime. 

People also do realise King and Lowry are only 18. It's not like they are 20/21 and just breaking in. 

Lowry still has massive work needed on the physical side. He will get game time but People need to be patient with his development. Same with King. They are teenagers, very few teenagers are regular starters at even comparable levels to our league.

 

If Lowry and King are regular starters by the time they are 20/21, I'll be very happy.

 

See the list I put above with current players at 4 big EPL sides that were regulars by the time they were 19. 

Also, Davis and Arfield resigning does have a direct impact on Lowry as jts more players he has to compete with. For example Davis is a defensive mid like you say but when he has played Kamara, who is also a defensive mid has been pushed forward into Lowrys role. Same could be said for Aribo who has played in the 8 role. Davis plays and Aribo plays the 10 so it all has a knock on effect.

I dont think anybody is expecting young players to start every game but they should be rewarded for performances.

Let me put it this way. If a player got 2 motm performances in a row. Do you think its acctable that they should wait another 3 and a half months to appear in a league match again? 

I accept the argument about Lowry having to develop and fill out etc but its weaker when he has performed everytime he has played. Literally everytime he has played for Rangers he has stood out. So he can clearly perform as he is currently.

I dont understand why clubs like Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd are happy to play youth but somehow the rules are different for the old firm.

[vanderark14]

14 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

Six months ago very few people on this forum had even heard of Lowry. It’s a bit much to be now slating the Rangers management for not playing him every week (as frustrating as it is). He’ll get plenty minutes next season, especially if he fills out a bit more. That said, he should have come on in extra time in the Europa league final. 

Nobody is expecting the lad to start every week, as others have said he got MOTM for two weeks and didn't play in the league again for three months. What more could he do to get a few more starts last season?

13 hours ago, Malcolm said:

yeah, it’s slightly different now though.  30 years ago, sky money hadn’t quite revolutionised the game, and players like scholes, beckham, Neville came through but they were still playing alongside seasoned pros.  

Nothing wrong with giving older players contracts.  Sandy Jardine won POTY in Scotland with Hearts at 37.  Dino Zoff won the World Cup at 40.

Im sure Lowry will get his chance and if he consistently turns in man of the match performances will stay in the side.

Lowry isn;t being kept out by experienced players in the same category as Jardine or Zoff. He is being kept ut by the likes of Ramsay, a player whos main experience is on a treatment table but because he is a "name" he plays before Lowry

Not sure about the last sentence, there is no evidence to back this up. 

[Scots_Wha_Hae]

It's up to each club to decide how they want to deal with this issue but the basic point is they cannot be surprised when young players leave if they offer no discerable route to first team football. No route to first team football for many of these lads means not being a professional at all. It's the developing club's loss if they do not see the issue and resolve it.

[Blantyre_Braveheart]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

See the list I put above with current players at 4 big EPL sides that were regulars by the time they were 19. 

Also, Davis and Arfield resigning does have a direct impact on Lowry as jts more players he has to compete with. For example Davis is a defensive mid like you say but when he has played Kamara, who is also a defensive mid has been pushed forward into Lowrys role. Same could be said for Aribo who has played in the 8 role. Davis plays and Aribo plays the 10 so it all has a knock on effect.

I dont think anybody is expecting young players to start every game but they should be rewarded for performances.

Let me put it this way. If a player got 2 motm performances in a row. Do you think its acctable that they should wait another 3 and a half months to appear in a league match again? 

I accept the argument about Lowry having to develop and fill out etc but its weaker when he has performed everytime he has played. Literally everytime he has played for Rangers he has stood out. So he can clearly perform as he is currently.

I dont understand why clubs like Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd are happy to play youth but somehow the rules are different for the old firm.

From what I've heard both Kamara and Aribo will most be away this summer.

There is probably going to be a massive amount of Change in the Rangers dressing room. From what I've heard Arfield was kept due to being a (low wage) big presence in the dressing room. I personally wouldn't have kept him but I can understand why, he was re-signed. I'd also be very surprised if McGregor or Davis get new deals. They are at a natural stopping point with Rangers.

Lowry and King are the same age as when Bale (at spurs) and Foden were subs making very occasional starts. Remember all the debates about Foden should be a starter and Pep is killing his development. 

 

I think Lowry and King should be getting atleast 15/20 starts and atleast that in sub appearances. 

 

I do agree he should have been given more appearances this season. Especially when it was obvious the title race was over.

[Blantyre_Braveheart]

3 hours ago, Scots_Wha_Hae said:

This is about pathways. If you are Lowry and are offered more money at a club in a bigger league with better coaches and a clearer pathway why would you turn it down? The conversation started because Wilson has apparently left at 16 to pursue opportunities elsewhere which is a consequence of all the examples above. It doesn't matter if the examples given play in the specific position Lowry or Wilson does, it's about the general feeling amongst younger players that there are opportunities where they are. We are talking about Rangers specifically here as they appear to have the best prospects at the moment, but the same is true of Celtic (Doak, Morrison, Hepburn) and many of the other clubs in the pyramid too. We are finally producing good young players again but there appears to be a lack of strategy to actually bring them into the professional environment and, as such, they are leaving. 

I mean 3 teenagers through Rangers academy in the last 2/3 years have become regular squad players. While they aren't always playing, that is a massive difference compared to what Rangers were. It's still early but it is showing a pathway into the squad. Now its about the next step of showing a pathway to first team football.

 

With Wilson from everything I've heard he was never signing a deal (same with Doak at Celtic) regardless of what he was promised, even before turning 15 there was talk he was away to England at 16. He was offered by far our largest ever youth deal, which was originally King to stop him being poached. Sometimes players just want to go elsewhere. 

[Caledonian Craig]

1 hour ago, Blantyre_Braveheart said:

I mean 3 teenagers through Rangers academy in the last 2/3 years have become regular squad players. While they aren't always playing, that is a massive difference compared to what Rangers were. It's still early but it is showing a pathway into the squad. Now its about the next step of showing a pathway to first team football.

 

With Wilson from everything I've heard he was never signing a deal (same with Doak at Celtic) regardless of what he was promised, even before turning 15 there was talk he was away to England at 16. He was offered by far our largest ever youth deal, which was originally King to stop him being poached. Sometimes players just want to go elsewhere. 

Granted there will always be youth players who crave the big time of the EPL as soon as possible like Doak, Wilson and before that Gilmour etc. But surely someone at Rangers (and other SPL clubs) need to look at how that is potential big money pissed up against the wall. By that I mean they would have drawn in a big transfer fee if they'd been first team regulars if they were given more first team football rather than leaving whilst unestablished.

Lowry is certainly a frustrating case. He excelled when given the chance every time and was rewarded with the axe. Whilst he's been kicking his heels the likes of star boy Ramsey has played several uninspiring games yet was turned to again and again. Same goes for Steven Davis and Scott Arfield who have hardly set the heather alight yet may very well be rewarded with new contracts. The thing that makes me doubt Lowry will become a first team regular next season is how this season ended. The title race was over and yet he was not used copiously. Now when you are looking to integrate a player into the first team you play them at every chance in games that are dead rubbers and that has not happened.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Caledonian Craig

[Scots_Wha_Hae]

1 hour ago, Blantyre_Braveheart said:

I mean 3 teenagers through Rangers academy in the last 2/3 years have become regular squad players. While they aren't always playing, that is a massive difference compared to what Rangers were. It's still early but it is showing a pathway into the squad. Now its about the next step of showing a pathway to first team football.

 

With Wilson from everything I've heard he was never signing a deal (same with Doak at Celtic) regardless of what he was promised, even before turning 15 there was talk he was away to England at 16. He was offered by far our largest ever youth deal, which was originally King to stop him being poached. Sometimes players just want to go elsewhere. 

Who are the 3? Patterson, King and Lowry? Patterson left first chance he could as he wasn't getting sufficient gametime (at least in his case he was behind one of the top players in the league and club captain, not a journeyman pro) and Lowry and King despite excelling in the paltry gametime they've had have 9 starts between them. Sitting on the bench doesn't change the narrative of no pathway if they rarely get off it. I do hope you are right and things are changing but I can't say I am as optimistic as you.

[mccaughey85]

11 hours ago, Scots_Wha_Hae said:

This is about pathways. If you are Lowry and are offered more money at a club in a bigger league with better coaches and a clearer pathway why would you turn it down? The conversation started because Wilson has apparently left at 16 to pursue opportunities elsewhere which is a consequence of all the examples above. It doesn't matter if the examples given play in the specific position Lowry or Wilson does, it's about the general feeling amongst younger players that there are opportunities where they are. We are talking about Rangers specifically here as they appear to have the best prospects at the moment, but the same is true of Celtic (Doak, Morrison, Hepburn) and many of the other clubs in the pyramid too. We are finally producing good young players again but there appears to be a lack of strategy to actually bring them into the professional environment and, as such, they are leaving. 

Money is a big factor in the young players leaving scotland for the epl. Imo Celtic and rangers need to up the wages they offer young talents they consider really special.

[Blantyre_Braveheart]

3 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Money is a big factor in the young players leaving scotland for the epl. Imo Celtic and rangers need to up the wages they offer young talents they consider really special.

McPake broke Rangers youth wage scale, then King broke it again to stop them going to bettermoney in England. We offered Wilson the best terms we ever have to a young player,  I'm sure Celtic done the same with Doak.

Due to brexit Scottish youngsters will be getting targeted for the academies in England. Any decent player coming through will be getting offers down south in the next few years. These last couple of seasons have just been the beginning. 

[er yir macaroon]

22 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Granted there will always be youth players who crave the big time of the EPL as soon as possible like Doak, Wilson and before that Gilmour etc. But surely someone at Rangers (and other SPL clubs) need to look at how that is potential big money pissed up against the wall. By that I mean they would have drawn in a big transfer fee if they'd been first team regulars if they were given more first team football rather than leaving whilst unestablished.

Lowry is certainly a frustrating case. He excelled when given the chance every time and was rewarded with the axe. Whilst he's been kicking his heels the likes of star boy Ramsey has played several uninspiring games yet was turned to again and again. Same goes for Steven Davis and Scott Arfield who have hardly set the heather alight yet may very well be rewarded with new contracts. The thing that makes me doubt Lowry will become a first team regular next season is how this season ended. The title race was over and yet he was not used copiously. Now when you are looking to integrate a player into the first team you play them at every chance in games that are dead rubbers and that has not happened.

This is nonsense. Lowry scored and made an assist in the only read rubber. 

[Caledonian Craig]

2 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

This is nonsense. Lowry scored and made an assist in the only read rubber. 

Read the whole post I do say Lowry should defo have got more game time for the last few months of this season.

[er yir macaroon]

3 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Read the whole post I do say Lowry should defo have got more game time for the last few months of this season.

Yes, but Hearts was the first real dead rubber. Don’t get me wrong, I’d have played him more, but Rangers had a title to defend with £60M at stake so it’s the manager’s call. 

[Caledonian Craig]

On 5/27/2022 at 7:22 PM, er yir macaroon said:

Yes, but Hearts was the first real dead rubber. Don’t get me wrong, I’d have played him more, but Rangers had a title to defend with £60M at stake so it’s the manager’s call. 

Yes, of course. But Lowry had/has not let the club down. The same could not be said of the likes of Ramsey who continued getting chances or others in midfield who put in less impressive performances than Lowry. If you have faith in the youngster you play him as Fergie done with his youngsters, as Berti Vogts did with Darren Fletcher, as Clarke did with Billy Gilmour and Lampard before him. By freezing him out is hardly filling him with confidence that he will be utilised more next season does it?

[Diamond Scot]

Davis signs a 1 year contract extention at Rangers. Thats both Davis and Arfield signed which isnt good news for Lowry. Both will want game time off the bench and in cups. The kind of opportunities that you might otherwise expect to go to Lowry.

[ErsatzThistle]

John McGinn linked with Spurs and West Ham.

[Toepoke]

Hickey to Brentford apparently. 

 

[EddardStark]

Balogun leaving Rangers. Should offer Leon King a clearer pathway to first team football as Goldson’s understudy.  Certainly more opportunities in domestic cup games.