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Scottish player transfers


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1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

The best coaching setups tend to happen when the most money can be spent on them. Thats not about having the same number of coaches but paying them more. Its about having a coaching budget that is multiple times what it is in Scotland. Allowing for more coaches, different types of coaches, analysts, people to look after strength and conditioning, nutrition etc etc.

If the same coaches in Scotland had the same budget and could employ all the same number and variety of staff then im sure they would do just as good a job but the money isnt there.

Just as a very basic example, theres a reason why all Englands youth teams have every player looking like a toned athlete. Its because they get every advantage at their club, their blood is analised to determine what nutrients they require to make them bigger, stronger, faster etc. This isnt the same for every player so takes alot of money. Scottish teams just dont have the resources for that.

Then why do pretty much none of our youth players make it at epl or top European clubs? 

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1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

The best coaching setups tend to happen when the most money can be spent on them. Thats not about having the same number of coaches but paying them more. Its about having a coaching budget that is multiple times what it is in Scotland. Allowing for more coaches, different types of coaches, analysts, people to look after strength and conditioning, nutrition etc etc.

If the same coaches in Scotland had the same budget and could employ all the same number and variety of staff then im sure they would do just as good a job but the money isnt there.

Just as a very basic example, theres a reason why all Englands youth teams have every player looking like a toned athlete. Its because they get every advantage at their club, their blood is analised to determine what nutrients they require to make them bigger, stronger, faster etc. This isnt the same for every player so takes alot of money. Scottish teams just dont have the resources for that.

Then why does pretty much none of our youth players make it at epl or top European clubs? 

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11 hours ago, GHfaeGTA said:

So are you saying they don’t get decent coaching in Scotland? The coaches he’s had must have been half decent due to fact he made his debut a few days after his 16th birthday after being at United since he was 7!

Dundee Utd are actually miles ahead of the curve in terms of youth development. They implemented a type of performance school program years and years ago. Only Celtic has something similar. I believe Rangers have now done the same (going by what other posters have said recently). So it makes sense that higher quality players are coming out of the Dundee Utd youth setup than most other teams.

Good luck to Kerr Smith, I hope he makes it. Same goes for Souttar (another Dundee Utd youth). I hope GVB plays him every week. He's too good to be a bench warmer.

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5 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Then why does pretty much none of our youth players make it at epl or top European clubs? 

A number of reasons. Sheer numbers for a start. Previously we have had very few players in these top academies and a small percentage of players make the grade at the top level. What we have seen over the past 5 years or so though is numbers increasing by loads which is why we are starting to see Scottish players on the fringes of 1st team breakthrough.

In no way am I critising Dundee Utd or indeed any Scottish teams coaching or setup. Its just a reality of life and football that investing more money tends to lead to better results.

Guys like Kerr going south or abroad can only be a good thing as we have seen with Gilmour and Hickey. Its not the only route to the top but it follows that getting the best coaching at the earliest age gives the player the best chance of realising his potential.

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3 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

A number of reasons. Sheer numbers for a start. Previously we have had very few players in these top academies and a small percentage of players make the grade at the top level. What we have seen over the past 5 years or so though is numbers increasing by loads which is why we are starting to see Scottish players on the fringes of 1st team breakthrough.

In no way am I critising Dundee Utd or indeed any Scottish teams coaching or setup. Its just a reality of life and football that investing more money tends to lead to better results.

Guys like Kerr going south or abroad can only be a good thing as we have seen with Gilmour and Hickey. Its not the only route to the top but it follows that getting the best coaching at the earliest age gives the player the best chance of realising his potential.

The stats don't back that up. In the last 20 years we have had 2 guys come through at an epl club or a top European club. That was Fletcher and McTominay. Gilmour will probably make it but its still not a guarantee. I can name 15-20 scottish lads off the top of my head who have been in epl or top european clubs youth set ups and have failed to become a first team regular. I am willing to bet theres another 15-20 guys I don't know about. So we are looking at a 1 in 15/20 chance of this guy making it at Aston villa or the EPL. If we also consider that these english clubs are cherry picking our best youth talent then thats not a great statistic. Basically these are our most promising young players that are failing to make the grade at these top academys. 

Currently our best players are guys who played spl/English championship football at the ages of 17-22, guys like mcginn, tierney, Robertson, fraser, Adams all played first team football at a young age. 

In fact our whole squad barring mctominay is made up of guys who didn't come through top clubs youth set ups. As i said Gilmour is still to make it at Chelsea so he doesn't count quite yet. 

Kerr Smith might make it at Aston villa but its unlikely. I would of preferred he stayed at Dundee united and played games for a couple more seasons before moving south. Infact i would actually prefer if he moved to a championship/league 1 side that intend on playing him than an epl side where he won't even make the bench. 

If hickey had went to bayern instead of bologna he wouldn't be making the progress he has imo. 

First team football is the most important development tool when a player is 18 to 22 and kerr Smith wont get that unless Aston villa can get a good loan move for him which tbf they might. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

The stats don't back that up. In the last 20 years we have had 2 guys come through at an epl club or a top European club. That was Fletcher and McTominay. Gilmour will probably make it but its still not a guarantee. I can name 15-20 scottish lads off the top of my head who have been in epl or top european clubs youth set ups and have failed to become a first team regular. I am willing to bet theres another 15-20 guys I don't know about. So we are looking at a 1 in 15/20 chance of this guy making it at Aston villa or the EPL. If we also consider that these english clubs are cherry picking our best youth talent then thats not a great statistic. Basically these are our most promising young players that are failing to make the grade at these top academys. 

Currently our best players are guys who played spl/English championship football at the ages of 17-22, guys like mcginn, tierney, Robertson, fraser, Adams all played first team football at a young age. 

In fact our whole squad barring mctominay is made up of guys who didn't come through top clubs youth set ups. As i said Gilmour is still to make it at Chelsea so he doesn't count quite yet. 

Kerr Smith might make it at Aston villa but its unlikely. I would of preferred he stayed at Dundee united and played games for a couple more seasons before moving south. Infact i would actually prefer if he moved to a championship/league 1 side that intend on playing him than an epl side where he won't even make the bench. 

If hickey had went to bayern instead of bologna he wouldn't be making the progress he has imo. 

First team football is the most important development tool when a player is 18 to 22 and kerr Smith wont get that unless Aston villa can get a good loan move for him which tbf they might. 

 

 

You're pretty much spot on with everything you've said. However, there is a big difference now than there was before - Performance Schools. Gilmour, Patterson and Ramsay are perfect examples of the difference. In the past, those same players might have broken through and we'd be talking about raw potential. Instead, these guys are ready for senior football whilst still in their teens.

That's what is highly encouraging about Kerr Smith and the others going down south. Yes, they might not get the first team football they otherwise would have in Scotland, but the Performance Schools have put them ahead of other young Scots going the same route in the past. They'll be ready far sooner and less likely to be shipped out or sent back to Scotland with their confidence in tatters.

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38 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

The stats don't back that up. In the last 20 years we have had 2 guys come through at an epl club or a top European club. That was Fletcher and McTominay. Gilmour will probably make it but its still not a guarantee. I can name 15-20 scottish lads off the top of my head who have been in epl or top european clubs youth set ups and have failed to become a first team regular. I am willing to bet theres another 15-20 guys I don't know about. So we are looking at a 1 in 15/20 chance of this guy making it at Aston villa or the EPL. If we also consider that these english clubs are cherry picking our best youth talent then thats not a great statistic. Basically these are our most promising young players that are failing to make the grade at these top academys. 

Currently our best players are guys who played spl/English championship football at the ages of 17-22, guys like mcginn, tierney, Robertson, fraser, Adams all played first team football at a young age. 

In fact our whole squad barring mctominay is made up of guys who didn't come through top clubs youth set ups. As i said Gilmour is still to make it at Chelsea so he doesn't count quite yet. 

Kerr Smith might make it at Aston villa but its unlikely. I would of preferred he stayed at Dundee united and played games for a couple more seasons before moving south. Infact i would actually prefer if he moved to a championship/league 1 side that intend on playing him than an epl side where he won't even make the bench. 

If hickey had went to bayern instead of bologna he wouldn't be making the progress he has imo. 

First team football is the most important development tool when a player is 18 to 22 and kerr Smith wont get that unless Aston villa can get a good loan move for him which tbf they might. 

 

 

The fact that we havent had many players coming through at top clubs over the past 20 years makes my point given how poor we have been during that time. All our best players during that time with the exception of Fletcher came through the home route and although being good players werent elite players.

Being able to name 20 players and saying there is likely another 20 who you dont know about over 20 years is really low numbers. English and foreign clubs historically havent been overly interested in our young players which supports that stat when comparred to things in the last 3 or 4 years. 

Im not sure Hickey is a good example for your point. Im not saying young players need to go into academy systems rather than getting 1st team football. Im saying that they have the best chance of releasing their potential when they get the best coaching. The standard of coaching at both Bayern and Bologna will be miles ahead of Hearts.

Its the same as education. Its possible for a smart kid to get amazing grades at a state school with 30 kids to a class, old textbooks and teachers spending half their time dealing with wee pricks etc however they are much more likely to excel in a private school with 10 to a class, private tutors, being pushed by their classmates etc.

How many world class footballers have Dundee Utd (or any Scottish club produced in last 30 years) zero. How many have Chelsea, or Man Utd or Southampton?

Its about money and resources.

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1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

The fact that we havent had many players coming through at top clubs over the past 20 years makes my point given how poor we have been during that time. All our best players during that time with the exception of Fletcher came through the home route and although being good players werent elite players.

Being able to name 20 players and saying there is likely another 20 who you dont know about over 20 years is really low numbers. English and foreign clubs historically havent been overly interested in our young players which supports that stat when comparred to things in the last 3 or 4 years. 

Im not sure Hickey is a good example for your point. Im not saying young players need to go into academy systems rather than getting 1st team football. Im saying that they have the best chance of releasing their potential when they get the best coaching. The standard of coaching at both Bayern and Bologna will be miles ahead of Hearts.

Its the same as education. Its possible for a smart kid to get amazing grades at a state school with 30 kids to a class, old textbooks and teachers spending half their time dealing with wee pricks etc however they are much more likely to excel in a private school with 10 to a class, private tutors, being pushed by their classmates etc.

How many world class footballers have Dundee Utd (or any Scottish club produced in last 30 years) zero. How many have Chelsea, or Man Utd or Southampton?

Its about money and resources.

The numbers don't lie, there must of been about 20/30 of our young players in the last 15 years at epl or top clubs. Only 1 has made it and even that was a lad who is arguably English but has chosen to represent us due to his father. These were the best young talents in Scotland and none have made it at these top youth academys. 20/30 might not be a large number but only 1 making it is still very poor odds. 

Hickey is good example of going to a lesser club where he will get chances as opposed to going to an elite club like bayern where he wouldn't get near the first team. Hickeys development is mostly down to playing first team football at hearts and then bologna, the best coaching in the world can't compare to playing first team football even if it's at a lower level. Kerr Smith would be best at a club where he is going to get gametime. I can almost guarantee he won't get that at Aston villa for at least 2 years and even then there's a good chance he won't make at all there. 

Historically in the last 20 years theres been loads of our young players at top English clubs. One of the main reasons it's increased slightly in the last few years is epl clubs now have an obscene amount of money they can throw at youth prospects in Scotland. A club like Aston villa can throw 1/2 million on a Scottish youth prospect that they have no intention on playing. At most points in the last 20 years we have had 6/7 young players at top clubs in England. There hasn't been that big an increase in that, only difference is bayern took an interest in a couple of our youth players but apart from that it's about the same as its always been. 

Your saying we haven't produced elite players in this time period?

Robertson, tierney and probably mcginn are elite players and they came through at Dundee united, celtic and St mirren/hibs. 

Even our good epl players have come through at lesser clubs and lower level leagues. 

It's not about money and resources, that's only a small part of it. It comes down to young players getting a chance to play professional football at a young age and learning from it. 

It wouldn't surprise me if 60/70 percent of the elite players from the past 20 years started out at small clubs or lesser leagues where they got first team football while they were in the 17-22 age bracket. A quick Google of guys like ibrahimovic, robben, van nistlerooy, modric, salah, van dijk will show this to be true. 

 

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2 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

The numbers don't lie, there must of been about 20/30 of our young players in the last 15 years at epl or top clubs. Only 1 has made it and even that was a lad who is arguably English but has chosen to represent us due to his father. These were the best young talents in Scotland and none have made it at these top youth academys. 20/30 might not be a large number but only 1 making it is still very poor odds. 

Hickey is good example of going to a lesser club where he will get chances as opposed to going to an elite club like bayern where he wouldn't get near the first team. Hickeys development is mostly down to playing first team football at hearts and then bologna, the best coaching in the world can't compare to playing first team football even if it's at a lower level. Kerr Smith would be best at a club where he is going to get gametime. I can almost guarantee he won't get that at Aston villa for at least 2 years and even then there's a good chance he won't make at all there. 

Historically in the last 20 years theres been loads of our young players at top English clubs. One of the main reasons it's increased slightly in the last few years is epl clubs now have an obscene amount of money they can throw at youth prospects in Scotland. A club like Aston villa can throw 1/2 million on a Scottish youth prospect that they have no intention on playing. At most points in the last 20 years we have had 6/7 young players at top clubs in England. There hasn't been that big an increase in that, only difference is bayern took an interest in a couple of our youth players but apart from that it's about the same as its always been. 

Your saying we haven't produced elite players in this time period?

Robertson, tierney and probably mcginn are elite players and they came through at Dundee united, celtic and St mirren/hibs. 

Even our good epl players have come through at lesser clubs and lower level leagues. 

It's not about money and resources, that's only a small part of it. It comes down to young players getting a chance to play professional football at a young age and learning from it. 

It wouldn't surprise me if 60/70 percent of the elite players from the past 20 years started out at small clubs or lesser leagues where they got first team football while they were in the 17-22 age bracket. A quick Google of guys like ibrahimovic, robben, Rooney, modric, salah will show this to be true. 

 

20/30 is a tiny number when looking at youth players. Now we have about that number in England currently and are starting to see some promising talents. Gilmour being the obvious one. To compare 2 players. McGinn is a very good player, amazing for Scotland and currently mid level EPL. Being honest maybe a top 6 side is his ceiling. Gilmour has the potential to play and be key for the worlds top clubs. Thats the difference.

Your definition of elite must be very different to mine if you are saying that McGinn is elite. By elite im talking about somebody who is a key player for the top 2 or 3 clubs in a top 5 league. 

By switching around your argument, how many Scottish players have played regular 1st team football from a young age and not become elite. 1st team football is great but coaching is key to a players development.

I dont even understand why thats a point of debate. Surely its common sence that having the best, most dedicated and funded coaching increases the chances of a player reaching their potential. Otherwise why do all the top clubs invest heavily in academies. Why not just sign players and loan them out to league 2 sides or up to Scotland?

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44 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

20/30 is a tiny number when looking at youth players. Now we have about that number in England currently and are starting to see some promising talents. Gilmour being the obvious one. To compare 2 players. McGinn is a very good player, amazing for Scotland and currently mid level EPL. Being honest maybe a top 6 side is his ceiling. Gilmour has the potential to play and be key for the worlds top clubs. Thats the difference.

Your definition of elite must be very different to mine if you are saying that McGinn is elite. By elite im talking about somebody who is a key player for the top 2 or 3 clubs in a top 5 league. 

By switching around your argument, how many Scottish players have played regular 1st team football from a young age and not become elite. 1st team football is great but coaching is key to a players development.

I dont even understand why thats a point of debate. Surely its common sence that having the best, most dedicated and funded coaching increases the chances of a player reaching their potential. Otherwise why do all the top clubs invest heavily in academies. Why not just sign players and loan them out to league 2 sides or up to Scotland?

We don't have 20/30 players in epl academies. Where are you getting that info from? We have about 11/12 youth players in epl academys, thats not massively more than say 5 or 10 years ago. We have always had about 8/9 players in epl academys. 5 years ago we had sammut, st clair, connelly, love, Charlie Gilmour, gallacher and thats just off the top of my head without googling. 

Maybe mcginn isn't elite but our 2 players who are came through at celtic and Dundee united/Queens park. If you then look at our good epl players like mcginn, Adams, fraser, Armstrong, they came through at lesser leagues and smaller clubs. 

Theres been lots of young Scottish players who have played first team football and not made it to elite or even epl level but the young Scottish players getting hoovered up by epl clubs are considered the best talents in Scotland therefore should stand a better chance of making it with  better coaching in these top academys. 

Having a top youth academy facilities and coaches is important and thats why big clubs invest huge amounts in it But its still no substitute for first team football, kerr Smith will not get first team football at Aston villa. 

"Why not just sign players and loan them out to league 2 sides or up to Scotland?" 

Most epl clubs do loan their players out to lower leagues as they understand that first team football is important. 

Edited by mccaughey85
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1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

20/30 is a tiny number when looking at youth players. Now we have about that number in England currently and are starting to see some promising talents. Gilmour being the obvious one. To compare 2 players. McGinn is a very good player, amazing for Scotland and currently mid level EPL. Being honest maybe a top 6 side is his ceiling. Gilmour has the potential to play and be key for the worlds top clubs. Thats the difference.

Your definition of elite must be very different to mine if you are saying that McGinn is elite. By elite im talking about somebody who is a key player for the top 2 or 3 clubs in a top 5 league. 

By switching around your argument, how many Scottish players have played regular 1st team football from a young age and not become elite. 1st team football is great but coaching is key to a players development.

I dont even understand why thats a point of debate. Surely its common sence that having the best, most dedicated and funded coaching increases the chances of a player reaching their potential. Otherwise why do all the top clubs invest heavily in academies. Why not just sign players and loan them out to league 2 sides or up to Scotland?

Looking through the EPL u23 and u18 squads we probably have about 15/16 players in those clubs academys but I would hazard a guess that we would probably have had near that amount at any point in the last 20 years going by the fact I can name 7/8 guys from 5 years ago off the top of my head without googling.

The number of players we have had at epl clubs in the past 15 years could potentially be 40/50. That means we are talking a 1 in 40/50 chance of making it. 

Edited by mccaughey85
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55 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Most epl clubs do loan their players out to lower leagues as they understand that first team football is important. 

Yes they loan them out after getting the best coaching. Even then the standard of input they get from their parent club is unreal. Each player has a dedicated loan officer who considers their performances, discussed how they can improve etc.

Im not arguing that 1st team football isnt important. Of course it is. Im purely saying that having as many of our young talents getting the highest standard of coaching is a good thing.

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59 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Looking through the EPL u23 and u18 squads we probably have about 15/16 players in those clubs academys but I would hazard a guess that we would probably have had near that amount at any point in the last 20 years going by the fact I can name 7/8 guys from 5 years ago off the top of my head without googling.

The number of players we have had at epl clubs in the past 15 years could potentially be 40/50. That means we are talking a 1 in 40/50 chance of making it. 

You aren't factoring in what has changed:

1. Brexit, meaning the young Scots will have less competition from European starlets.

2. Performance Schools before going to England. Making them better prepared to handle it.

Plus, the numbers you quoted are just the beginning. Those numbers are going to increase over the next few transfer windows.

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44 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Yes they loan them out after getting the best coaching. Even then the standard of input they get from their parent club is unreal. Each player has a dedicated loan officer who considers their performances, discussed how they can improve etc.

Im not arguing that 1st team football isnt important. Of course it is. Im purely saying that having as many of our young talents getting the highest standard of coaching is a good thing.

Then why have only 1 out of 30/40 made it to a good level bearing in mind these are considered our most promising prospects?

Why does nearly all our best players who play epl football come from smaller clubs playing lower level football at 17-22? 

Would hickey be better off in bayerns youth set up with the best coaching in the world but playing no first team football or would you prefer he played for bologna in serie a? 

Edited by mccaughey85
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4 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Then why have only 1 out of 30/40 made it to a good level bearing in mind these are considered our most promising prospects?

Why does nearly all our best players who play epl football come from smaller clubs playing lower level football at 17-22? 

Would hickey be better off in bayerns youth set up with the best coaching in the world but playing no first team football or would you prefer he played for bologna in serie a? 

Again, Hickey is at a club with excellent coaches. He even says himself that his learning curve was steep. You seem to be confusing my point as academies are better than 1st team football when thats not what im saying. Im saying that you increase the chances of developing a player to his full potential if you give him the best coaching. 

Its also not about our best players. Thats a false argument. Our best players have been not good enough. Even the ones who have done well werent elite. Take somebody like Barry Ferguson or Scott Brown. Both ex Scotland captains. Do you think they reached their full potential by playing 1st team football. Ferguson in particular had amazing raw talent but developed in a beer and chips culture where he only had to be good enough to get in the Rangers team to be considered as good.

Look at other sports such as golf. You can play as much golf as you want, even getting coaching but theres a reason why the vast majority of elite golfers are coming through the american college system. 

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On 1/15/2022 at 5:31 PM, Diamond Scot said:

Again, Hickey is at a club with excellent coaches. He even says himself that his learning curve was steep. You seem to be confusing my point as academies are better than 1st team football when thats not what im saying. Im saying that you increase the chances of developing a player to his full potential if you give him the best coaching. 

Its also not about our best players. Thats a false argument. Our best players have been not good enough. Even the ones who have done well werent elite. Take somebody like Barry Ferguson or Scott Brown. Both ex Scotland captains. Do you think they reached their full potential by playing 1st team football. Ferguson in particular had amazing raw talent but developed in a beer and chips culture where he only had to be good enough to get in the Rangers team to be considered as good.

Look at other sports such as golf. You can play as much golf as you want, even getting coaching but theres a reason why the vast majority of elite golfers are coming through the american college system. 

I am happy for guys like hickey or Oliver burke to go to big clubs or leagues like serie a or the EPL as long as they will play games. The coaching and the facilities are better in these leagues but it doesn't substitute for playing first team football. Ideally a player will get both but the first team football is more important imo. If a players not playing first team football during 17-22 then he probably won't make it at a good level. 

The coaching and training facilities will be better at bayern than bologna. Would you rather he had went to bayern or bologna? He would certainly get the best coaching in the world at bayern. 

I am talking about our best players we have right now who have shown in the last 2/3 years that they are good enough. Our recent success is built on guys who are good enough to play epl football. We have 2 players who are elite and then we have another 8/9 who are good epl players. Every one of these players barring mctominay played first team football at 17-22. 

Even if we were to look at ferguson or browns careers then it only proves my point. Ferguson at the age of 18/19 broke into an excellent rangers side who could easily of finished in the top 6/7 in the EPL. He got good experience playing with excellent players under a good manager. Are you trying to say he should of spent 18-22 not playing first team football but getting top coaching and playing reserve football at somewhere like arsenal or man utd? The problem with fergusons career is that he should of moved to England around 23/24 but football was different back then, rangers and celtic could match alot of EPL clubs wages and ferguson was a guy who liked being at home and being a rangers player. 20 years ago celtic and rangers were able to keep top players in Scotland. Its near impossible to do that now. 

Scott brown played first team football at hibs from 17 to 22. I doubt he would progressed alot better had he spent those years in the likes of Aston villa or Evertons youth setup playing no first team football. Do you think he would of been a better player had he spent his youth years doing that? Again brown should of left around the 23/24 age and went south to test himself but he was happy being at celtic, he also probably wouldn't of played for the top clubs in England anyway. He was never good enough for that level anyway. 

Dunno about golf, I don't know anything about that sport lol. 

 

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On 1/15/2022 at 5:07 PM, Tartan blood said:

You aren't factoring in what has changed:

1. Brexit, meaning the young Scots will have less competition from European starlets.

2. Performance Schools before going to England. Making them better prepared to handle it.

Plus, the numbers you quoted are just the beginning. Those numbers are going to increase over the next few transfer windows.

1.Do you think brexit has had or will have an effect on epl clubs being able to attract foreign youth prospects? Genuine question as I don't really know, I would of thought they could still get european player work permits especially if it's a really talented player they want. 

2.Yeh maybe these guys might prove to do better than the previous generation did. I certainly would love to see them do well at epl clubs. 

 

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2 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

I am happy for guys like hickey or Oliver burke to go to big clubs or leagues like serie a or the EPL as long as they will play games. The coaching and the facilities are better in these leagues but it doesn't substitute for playing first team football. Ideally a player will get both but the first team football is more important imo. If a players not playing first team football during 17-22 then he probably won't make it at a good level. 

The coaching and training facilities will be better at bayern than bologna. Would you rather he had went to bayern or bologna? He would certainly get the best coaching in the world at bayern. 

I am talking about our best players we have right now who have shown in the last 2/3 years that they are good enough. Our recent success is built on guys who are good enough to play epl football. We have 2 players who are elite and then we have another 8/9 who are good epl players. Every one of these players barring mctominay played first team football at 17-22. 

Even if we were to look at ferguson or browns careers then it only proves my point. Ferguson at the age of 18/19 broke into an excellent rangers side who could easily of finished in the top 6/7 in the EPL. He got good experience playing with excellent players under a good manager. Are you trying to say he should of spent 18-22 not playing first team football but getting top coaching and playing reserve football at somewhere like arsenal or man utd? The problem with fergusons career is that he should of moved to England around 23/24 but football was different back then, rangers and celtic could match alot of EPL clubs wages and ferguson was a guy who liked being at home and being a rangers player. 20 years ago celtic and rangers were able to keep top players in Scotland. Its near impossible to do that now. 

Scott brown played first team football at hibs from 17 to 22. I doubt he would progressed alot better had he spent those years in the likes of Aston villa or Evertons youth setup playing no first team football. Do you think he would of been a better player had he spent his youth years doing that? Again brown should of left around the 23/24 age and went south to test himself but he was happy being at celtic, he also probably wouldn't of played for the top clubs in England anyway. He was never good enough for that level anyway. 

Dunno about golf, I don't know anything about that sport lol. 

 

Sorry to make this point, it's just something that does my tits in...its 'should have' or 'should've' not 'should of'...

...anyway, Hickey has clearly made the right move, he's playing every week for a decent side in Serie A

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14 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Sorry to make this point, it's just something that does my tits in...its 'should have' or 'should've' not 'should of'...

...anyway, Hickey has clearly made the right move, he's playing every week for a decent side in Serie A

Jeez, who cares lol. 

Hickey has done great over there, lets hope it encourages more Italian clubs to buy young Scottish players. 

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12 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

1.Do you think brexit has had or will have an effect on epl clubs being able to attract foreign youth prospects? Genuine question as I don't really know, I would of thought they could still get european player work permits especially if it's a really talented player they want. 

2.Yeh maybe these guys might prove to do better than the previous generation did. I certainly would love to see them do well at epl clubs. 

 

1. I'm certainly not an authority on the subject, and others will know more than I do. But, from what I gather, due to the ending of 'freedom of movement' within the EU, getting a work permit for under 18 year olds is nigh on impossible. They would have to be the super elite like Mbappe. Scottish players can freely go south at any point.

2. Time will tell, but the signs are very positive. If I'm not mistaken, Gilmour was literally in the very first Performance School class. 

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