theabsentee Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 12 hours ago, syecosse said: Dire Mebude signs his first professional contract at Man city, hopefully a few good signs at City for our youth, Fiorini, Slicker, Adam, Smith and possibly Robertson(if he plays for My gut feeling tells me Dire will turn out to be the better of the brothers as older bro Dapo has been released by Rangers even though he did ok on loan at QOS. The issue is as think has been mentioned here before Dire appears to have been born in London, now he is in the English system at such a impressionable age if he does really well at City there's no doubt England will come calling then we have another battle on our hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 1 hour ago, ProudScot said: It means they now will look to British players to fill their academies yes. It’s good news for Scottish football to be honest. It's good news for the national team, but I wouldn't say it's necessarily better for the Scottish league. If all our best players are pilfered by England, the quality breaking through might drop. Though, saying that, a lot of the "failed" Scottish youths in England will eventually come back to Scotland, but at a better standard than they would have been if they'd stayed in Scotland. In theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theabsentee Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 19 hours ago, Blantyre_Braveheart said: I was just adding him to the list of players of also having to go out who play that position. I wouldn't sell Middleton. There's a player there but he just hasn't pieced it together yet. Another 12 months at St. Johnstone would do him the world of good. Davidson seems to improve players and get the best out of them. Middleton said he enjoyed it there and appeared to be getting it together. I don't know why he has been so written off. For me he is a better player than Barker and Jones (they playedyovwr him 19/20 season). They got chances at times while he didn't. Ojo (when he was on loan 19/20) always playing over him was baffling aswell. I hope he makes it at Rangers, there is nothing I love more than a young player coming through your youth team into the first team. I'm also really hoping Stephen Kelly gets a chance this season or next. There is a very good Deep lying playmaker in there. Very reminiscent of the player Steven Davis has become. I think this coming season is crunch time for Middleton, been promising a lot for a few seasons now but hasn't consistently delivered . Remember this lad was outstanding for Scotland at Youth levels, since moving up to the under 21's & club senior football he hasn't really progressed. Now he really needs a successful loan season, starting 20+ games at spl or English league 1 minimum level if Rangers can't find a club willing to give him that then i fear there's no chance he can develop to full international level. I really hope your right about Stephen Kelly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csinclair Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Dapo Mebude to Watford confirmed now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 6 hours ago, theabsentee said: My gut feeling tells me Dire will turn out to be the better of the brothers as older bro Dapo has been released by Rangers even though he did ok on loan at QOS. The issue is as think has been mentioned here before Dire appears to have been born in London, now he is in the English system at such a impressionable age if he does really well at City there's no doubt England will come calling then we have another battle on our hands. Yeh England youth teams will come calling for him I reckon. He would be best sticking with us as he's unlikely to make it at city. If he switches over to England and then turns into an average epl/championship player which is probably the most likely outcome then he will come running back to us like Sam Gallagher. Better sticking with us then if he turns into a city first team player then go for England if he chooses or wait a while like McTominay did before choosing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 8 hours ago, ProudScot said: It means they now will look to British players to fill their academies yes. It’s good news for Scottish football to be honest. Great, more Ruben sammuts and Robbie foys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 6 hours ago, Tartan blood said: It's good news for the national team, but I wouldn't say it's necessarily better for the Scottish league. If all our best players are pilfered by England, the quality breaking through might drop. Though, saying that, a lot of the "failed" Scottish youths in England will eventually come back to Scotland, but at a better standard than they would have been if they'd stayed in Scotland. In theory. Why would they come back at a better standard? If they stayed in Scotland they would get first team experience rather than playing youth football at somewhere like Chelsea or man City. I can only name 1 young Scottish footballer who went to a big club and broke through in the last 15 years. That's Billy Gilmour. There's about 20 off the top of my head who failed and have barely made a decent career in football. Robbie foy, rubben sammut, Steven watt etc. Currently our best players are guys who played spl/English championship football before they went onto a epl football. Its a discussion I have had many times on here, if the evidence shows that pretty much none of our young players make it at a decent level after being in a top clubs youth set up then why would we want our players there. If there was 4 or 5 guys in the last 15 years fair enough I could understand but there's 1 and I am guessing Gilmour would of made it anywhere due to his ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said: Great, more Ruben sammuts and Robbie foys. And Darren Fletchers and Billy Gilmours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 59 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said: Why would they come back at a better standard? If they stayed in Scotland they would get first team experience rather than playing youth football at somewhere like Chelsea or man City. I can only name 1 young Scottish footballer who went to a big club and broke through in the last 15 years. That's Billy Gilmour. There's about 20 off the top of my head who failed and have barely made a decent career in football. Robbie foy, rubben sammut, Steven watt etc. Currently our best players are guys who played spl/English championship football before they went onto a epl football. Its a discussion I have had many times on here, if the evidence shows that pretty much none of our young players make it at a decent level after being in a top clubs youth set up then why would we want our players there. If there was 4 or 5 guys in the last 15 years fair enough I could understand but there's 1 and I am guessing Gilmour would of made it anywhere due to his ability. That's why I said "in theory". Not necessarily true in practise. We all know the value of game time, but I'm talking about when you are 16/17/18 years old, arguably one of the most critical times in a young player's development. No disrespect to the likes of Falkirk or Hamilton, but training in world class facilties alongside top class pros is far more valuable than playing 30 games at the age of 17 in the lower leagues. Then, at around 19/20 they can be sent out on loan to get game time. Maybe even to their original clubs. I know it hasn't worked out that well up until now, but the volume of players going south is going to be far greater. And getting away from the toxic Scottish environment in their teens might be crucial in keeping them on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, ProudScot said: And Darren Fletchers and Billy Gilmours Fletcher came through about 18 years ago. Thats a long time ago. So we are talking 1 player in 15 years. Great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theabsentee Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/partick-thistle-say-hearts-harry-stone-is-a-real-asset-after-signing-future-tynecastle-no1-on-loan-3302021 We should keep a eye out for how this keepers loan goes, highly thought of at Hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 18 minutes ago, Tartan blood said: That's why I said "in theory". Not necessarily true in practise. We all know the value of game time, but I'm talking about when you are 16/17/18 years old, arguably one of the most critical times in a young player's development. No disrespect to the likes of Falkirk or Hamilton, but training in world class facilties alongside top class pros is far more valuable than playing 30 games at the age of 17 in the lower leagues. Then, at around 19/20 they can be sent out on loan to get game time. Maybe even to their original clubs. I know it hasn't worked out that well up until now, but the volume of players going south is going to be far greater. And getting away from the toxic Scottish environment in their teens might be crucial in keeping them on track. The evidence doesn't back up this theory. A better theory that has proven results is these players stay in Scotland and play meaningful football until they are 21/22 then move on to a higher level like Tierney, McGinn, Fraser, Adams, Robertson,christie. These guys all played spl or English championship/league 1 football before moving to the EPL/celtic. In fact who's to say Gilmour might be even better had he spent the last three years playing for rangers every week. Certainly did van dijk, wanyama, Tierney, dembele, edouard plenty for their careers playing for celtic every week before moving onto bigger things. Also how will these young players be training against top class players, they are not training with the first team squad. The coaches and facilities might be alot better but nothing can beat playing first team football for a young players development. Epl youth football is rubbish, if you watch some of the highlights it's terrible standard and is so far away from epl first team football. It's nice to see some young Scottish players going to big clubs but it's not something I would get overly excited about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 25 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said: Fletcher came through about 18 years ago. Thats a long time ago. So we are talking 1 player in 15 years. Great. Steven Watt and Robbie Foy were the same time, those were the players you used as your example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Steven Watt and Robbie Foy were the same time, those were the players you used as your example Well ok then so 2 in about 25 plus years. Thats a very poor return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Just now, mccaughey85 said: Well ok then so 2 in about 25 plus years. Thats a very poor return. Well let’s just see what happens over the next 3-5 years as we have more than we ever have at this present moment and seems to be on the increase all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Dapo Mebude signs for Watford. 2 year contract with a further 2 years as an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Dapo Mebude signs for Watford. 2 year contract with a further 2 years as an option. Sounds like a decent move considering he's been released by rangers I think. Hopefully Watford can put him out on loan straight away to a league 1 or spl team. Still only 19 so time is on his side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 11 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said: Sounds like a decent move considering he's been released by rangers I think. Hopefully Watford can put him out on loan straight away to a league 1 or spl team. Still only 19 so time is on his side. Yeah it’s a good move & I think a loan out straight away is the plan. Two other young players released by Rangers are about to sign for EPL clubs also; Brian Kinnear (under 21 GK) for West Ham & Ciaran Dickson (Under 19 midfielder) for Burnley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Yeah it’s a good move & I think a loan out straight away is the plan. Two other young players released by Rangers are about to sign for EPL clubs also; Brian Kinnear (under 21 GK) for West Ham & Ciaran Dickson (Under 19 midfielder) for Burnley. Strange that rangers are releasing these young guys who are then getting snapped up right away by epl clubs. Surely they must be worth keeping around for another season or 2. Mebude is only 19 and could still make it at a decent level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said: The evidence doesn't back up this theory. A better theory that has proven results is these players stay in Scotland and play meaningful football until they are 21/22 then move on to a higher level like Tierney, McGinn, Fraser, Adams, Robertson,christie. These guys all played spl or English championship/league 1 football before moving to the EPL/celtic. In fact who's to say Gilmour might be even better had he spent the last three years playing for rangers every week. Certainly did van dijk, wanyama, Tierney, dembele, edouard plenty for their careers playing for celtic every week before moving onto bigger things. Also how will these young players be training against top class players, they are not training with the first team squad. The coaches and facilities might be alot better but nothing can beat playing first team football for a young players development. Epl youth football is rubbish, if you watch some of the highlights it's terrible standard and is so far away from epl first team football. It's nice to see some young Scottish players going to big clubs but it's not something I would get overly excited about. Yup, hence why I said "in theory, but not necessarily in practise". I'm not saying sending all our youths down to England is the best thing to do, in fact, I initially said it'll be bad for the Scottish leagues. However, I'm firmly against sticking to the status quo. We have been getting moderate success the past few years by changing nothing. The performance schools are a very positive change, and Gilmour is a product of that. Since we will inevitably be losing our best to England, we should at least try and see the positives. If we can prepare them here in Scotland first, then send them to top academies, then I don't think there are too many negatives. And, fyi, Celtic (and Dundee Utd) have been using a similar model to the performance schools for the past 5-10 years as well. Tierney is a product of that. The biggest negative is that maybe we'll have to wait a bit longer for them to break through. Edited July 9, 2021 by Tartan blood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COLT NY Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 It's certainly debatable whether better facilities make a better player. It's probably likely that a player's mentality will allow them to succeed or fail whichever situation they are in. Ronaldo and Messi were at top clubs from their early teens, De Bruyne left Genk at 21, Lewandovski was playing in the Polish 3rd division until he was almost 20. The only real take away I'd make from this discussion is that Murray Park has been a colossal failure. It hasn't produced Rangers first team players, and hasn't really produced anyone that's gone on to greater things other than a kid who left at the first chance he got when he was 14. I'm not a Rangers fan, but I would like to see that situation turn around so that we can see more Scottish talent being developed in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 3 hours ago, COLT NY said: It's certainly debatable whether better facilities make a better player. It's probably likely that a player's mentality will allow them to succeed or fail whichever situation they are in. Ronaldo and Messi were at top clubs from their early teens, De Bruyne left Genk at 21, Lewandovski was playing in the Polish 3rd division until he was almost 20. The only real take away I'd make from this discussion is that Murray Park has been a colossal failure. It hasn't produced Rangers first team players, and hasn't really produced anyone that's gone on to greater things other than a kid who left at the first chance he got when he was 14. I'm not a Rangers fan, but I would like to see that situation turn around so that we can see more Scottish talent being developed in Scotland. Absolutely. For a club the size of Rangers, and their resources, they should be producing far more internationals. Hopefully Patterson and Gilmour are a sign that that is changing, but who was the last Scottish International to come out of their academy? I honestly can't think of any lately. Is Fleck the only one? And he didn't exactly come out their academy fully prepared for senior football. It took him a long time to get up to speed. Rangers really squandered a fantastic opportunity to focus on youth development when they were in the lower leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Christie wanted by Sampdoria for a pre contract to sign in January Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 13 hours ago, mccaughey85 said: Strange that rangers are releasing these young guys who are then getting snapped up right away by epl clubs. Surely they must be worth keeping around for another season or 2. Mebude is only 19 and could still make it at a decent level. Think it was more they never signed new deals than were released, i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blantyre_Braveheart Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said: Think it was more they never signed new deals than were released, i think Dickson was definitely released. He signed a new deal in January and got released 6 months later due to apparent attitude problems. Dapo Mebude just hasn't developed and was allowed to run his contract down. It was fairly telling that he was never in European training squads when literally every other youth player of note was involved. I know Dire Mebude turned Rangers down last season and went to Man City. Hogarth seems a strange one. He seemed quite rated by both Rangers and Scotland. Perhaps he rejected a deal, I've not heard anything though. Edited July 10, 2021 by Blantyre_Braveheart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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