Scottish player transfers

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Your last 16hours of posts

And you’ve the cheek to call other people fannies.  

[Texas Pete]

31 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Im quite sure there have been instances of players departing international training to complete their transfers in the past. 

 

I’m sure it has. It’s not exactly ideal though, especially if there is an away game involved.

I am not completely defending Fraser’s actions here but I am saying I can understand why he’s asked not to be selected. 

For me, what he has done this time isn’t as bad as pulling out and playing for Bournemouth the next Saturday as fit as a fiddle.

[0Neils40yarder]

8 minutes ago, aaid said:

And you’ve the cheek to call other people fannies.  

Did a Geordie pump yer Mrs?

[Diamond Scot]

Clarke had a conversation with Fraser and they decided that he wasnt at the required level of fitness or match sharpeness to feature in these games.

Is much as it doesnt suit some peoples agenda, that is not Fraser making himself unavailable.

In the same way McBurnie was willing )and from the looks of his social media and previous record of turning up to squads) keen to play for Scotland this weekend. However Clarke and Wilder had a conversation about McBurnies fitness. Concentrating specifically on an injury and it was again agreed that the player would return to the club. Clarke in the full knowledge that he may appear in club friendlies.

Again this is not the same as saying McBurnje pulled out of the squad.

People need to stop attacking players based on untruths that they have just made up to suit their agenda.

[0Neils40yarder]

1 minute ago, Diamond Scot said:

Clarke had a conversation with Fraser and they decided that he wasnt at the required level of fitness or match sharpeness to feature in these games.

Is much as it doesnt suit some peoples agenda, that is not Fraser making himself unavailable.

In the same way McBurnie was willing )and from the looks of his social media and previous record of turning up to squads) keen to play for Scotland this weekend. However Clarke and Wilder had a conversation about McBurnies fitness. Concentrating specifically on an injury and it was again agreed that the player would return to the club. Clarke in the full knowledge that he may appear in club friendlies.

Again this is not the same as saying McBurnje pulled out of the squad.

People need to stop attacking players based on untruths that they have just made up to suit their agenda.

Correct...I'm actually a bit surprised he didnt just got with a squad made up solely of players playing in Scotland 

[aaid]

5 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Did a Geordie pump yer Mrs?

I used to work for a company whose head office is in Newcastle and so I worked with a load of Geordies.  Lovely down to earth friendly  people but completely deluded about their football team and it’s relative importance in the grand scheme of things.  I never bought the whole “we’d rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0”. Always took that as a get out to cover up theirs general level of shiteness, particularly as aside from that short period under Keegan they’ve never really been an overly attractive side to watch. 

[Orraloon]

8 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Clarke had a conversation with Fraser and they decided that he wasnt at the required level of fitness or match sharpeness to feature in these games.

Is much as it doesnt suit some peoples agenda, that is not Fraser making himself unavailable.

In the same way McBurnie was willing )and from the looks of his social media and previous record of turning up to squads) keen to play for Scotland this weekend. However Clarke and Wilder had a conversation about McBurnies fitness. Concentrating specifically on an injury and it was again agreed that the player would return to the club. Clarke in the full knowledge that he may appear in club friendlies.

Again this is not the same as saying McBurnje pulled out of the squad.

People need to stop attacking players based on untruths that they have just made up to suit their agenda.

Are you sure Fraser and Clarke had a conversation?

Are you saying this quote is wrong?

"Asked about the Aberdonian’s omission from his squad, former West Brom and Reading boss Clarke said: “I haven’t actually spoken to Ryan Fraser yet.

“I was waiting on him getting himself a club but he hasn’t managed that yet.

“He actually contacted one of the medical staff and said his fitness wouldn’t be acceptable for a match of this level.”"

[Diamond Scot]

4 minutes ago, aaid said:

I used to work for a company whose head office is in Newcastle and so I worked with a load of Geordies.  Lovely down to earth friendly  people but completely deluded about their football team and it’s relative importance in the grand scheme of things.  I never bought the whole “we’d rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0”. Always took that as a get out to cover up theirs general level of shiteness, particularly as aside from that short period under Keegan they’ve never really been an overly attractive side to watch. 

Could be that they see football as a form of entertainment.

There comes a point when even winning football isnt enough if you arent being entertained. 

Clubs tend to go in cycles. No success for ages and fans accept boring football if it has results. Then when the results become the norm they want the entertaining football again. This is normally when the results go away. Stoke is a classic example. Punched way above their weight for years playing boring football. Tried to change and got relegated.

I must say id rather support a team who yo-yoed up and down the leagues but always attacked than support a team like Aberdeen (no offence) who finish 3rd but arent exciting to watch.

[Diamond Scot]

4 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Are you sure Fraser and Clarke had a conversation?

Are you saying this quote is wrong?

"Asked about the Aberdonian’s omission from his squad, former West Brom and Reading boss Clarke said: “I haven’t actually spoken to Ryan Fraser yet.

“I was waiting on him getting himself a club but he hasn’t managed that yet.

“He actually contacted one of the medical staff and said his fitness wouldn’t be acceptable for a match of this level.”"

My understanding is that they have spoken and Clarke has no issues. Im led to believe it wasnt even Fraser who contacted the scotland medical staff though. It was his agent. That was only the initial contact though.

This has come from another Scotland player though so could be wrong but I cant see why he would lie.

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Could be that they see football as a form of entertainment.

There comes a point when even winning football isnt enough if you arent being entertained. 

Clubs tend to go in cycles. No success for ages and fans accept boring football if it has results. Then when the results become the norm they want the entertaining football again. This is normally when the results go away. Stoke is a classic example. Punched way above their weight for years playing boring football. Tried to change and got relegated.

I must say id rather support a team who yo-yoed up and down the leagues but always attacked than support a team like Aberdeen (no offence) who finish 3rd but arent exciting to watch.

Obviously everyone would want their team to play exciting and attacking football and win but I just don’t accept that any football fan would accept losing over playing well, odd game perhaps, where you’re up against superior opposition  but not as a general philosophy unless I’m missing something about how football fans think and behave. 

All my memorable football memories have all been about winning something, either a trophy or even just a match. 

For example, one of my favourite Scotland moments is Neil McCann getting a late winner in Riga. 

Winning isn’t necessarily the be all and end all but it is fundamentally what a sporting contest is all about.  If you just want entertainment, go to the cinema. 

[scotlad]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

As much as I dislike them, at least Leeds can lay claim to being one of the larger clubs in English football, they're bigger than Newcastle in every respect.

Interesting that you mention Sunderland, while they're an even bigger basket case than Newcastle these days, they could traditionally be considered to be a much bigger club that Newcastle.

Anyway, a player when signing for a club should be considering the length of his contract and what he can achieve in that period, not looking at whether they won the Fairs cup 50 years ago or that they'll never have to buy a pint in the Bigg Market because they finished 10th one year and not 13th.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that Fraser should've stayed at Bournemouth, he'd run his course there and probably had done as much there as he could've done.

i just don't see going to Newcastle as being any sort of step up for him.   Much the same as going to Palace, Brighton, West Ham or anyone of those lower-mid table teams.

 

Leeds were a so-so football club very much playing second fiddle to the city's rugby league team until Don Revie arrived.  These days, I don't think there's much between them and Newcastle in terms of stature.

With better owners Newcastle could be a more successful club than they are. They have a history and a fanbase far in excess of Bournemouth's

Even now, Newcastle are still better placed to attract better players than the Bournemouths and Brightons (since you mentioned them) of this world. Think about it: if you were a footballer and had the choice between playing at St James Park in front of 40k people every other week in a city where virtually every native football fan is willing you on, and playing for Bournemouth in their rum-ti-tum wee stadium, which team would you pick?  For me, it's a no-brainer.

[aaid]

7 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

My understanding is that they have spoken and Clarke has no issues. Im led to believe it wasnt even Fraser who contacted the scotland medical staff though. It was his agent. That was only the initial contact though.

This has come from another Scotland player though so could be wrong but I cant see why he would lie.

Not sure it’s really relevant whether he spoke to Clarke himself or to a member of his staff but the key thing is they had that conversation before the squad was announced. 

Amazes me that anyone legitimately thinks that a player that hasn’t played in six months nor done any training should be anywhere near an international squad for a competing match. 

[Diamond Scot]

7 minutes ago, aaid said:

Obviously everyone would want their team to play exciting and attacking football and win but I just don’t accept that any football fan would accept losing over playing well, odd game perhaps, where you’re up against superior opposition  but not as a general philosophy unless I’m missing something about how football fans think and behave. 

All my memorable football memories have all been about winning something, either a trophy or even just a match. 

For example, one of my favourite Scotland moments is Neil McCann getting a late winner in Riga. 

Winning isn’t necessarily the be all and end all but it is fundamentally what a sporting contest is all about.  If you just want entertainment, go to the cinema. 

Im not actually disagreeing but like anything its about different level. Exciting football isnt good if you get beat every week. But boring football also isnt good if you win every week. 

One of my favourite football memories is losing to Italy. Maybe im just strange but I have fonder memories of that game than grinding out a win against some other sides.

 

 

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Leeds were a so-so football club very much playing second fiddle to the city's rugby league team until Don Revie arrived.  These days, I don't think there's much between them and Newcastle in terms of stature.

With better owners Newcastle could be a more successful club than they are. They have a history and a fanbase far in excess of Bournemouth's

Even now, Newcastle are still better placed to attract better players than the Bournemouths and Brightons (since you mentioned them) of this world. Think about it: if you were a footballer and had the choice between playing at St James Park in front of 40k people every other week in a city where virtually every native football fan is willing you on, and playing for Bournemouth in their rum-ti-tum wee stadium, which team would you pick?  For me, it's a no-brainer.

Why don’t Newcastle attract players of quality then. Who are all these superstars I’m overlooking? 

FWIW, is suspect a lot of players - all other things being equal, length of contract, financial deal, etc., would choose Brighton over Newcastle for the singular reason that Brighton is a much more appealing place to live than Newcastle. 

Part of the reason why London clubs find it a lot easier to attract overseas players than clubs from the north, players want to live in London. 

[scotlad]

11 minutes ago, aaid said:

Why don’t Newcastle attract players of quality then. Who are all these superstars I’m overlooking? 

FWIW, is suspect a lot of players - all other things being equal, length of contract, financial deal, etc., would choose Brighton over Newcastle for the singular reason that Brighton is a much more appealing place to live than Newcastle. 

Part of the reason why London clubs find it a lot easier to attract overseas players than clubs from the north, players want to live in London. 

That's all subjective. London I'll give you, but some parts of Newcastle and some of the outlying areas are lovely. Brighton's climate is more pleasant, I think it's fair to say though.

Newcastle certainly had no issues attracting top players in the '90s and '00s. The fact they're thinner on the ground now I'd put down to the way the club's run, rather than where it's located.

By the way, I'm with you about the Geordies in general - brand new people, but completely deluded when it comes to their football team, almost to Celtic-like proportions. I'm still not having it that their club is only on a par with Bournemouth though!

[Kirk]

14 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

He’s being vilified on here but I can understand him wanting to sort out a club. It would be quite difficult to do that from the Scotland training camp and even more difficult to do from the Czech Republic.

It's almost as if he could have played out his contract, stayed fit and probably had a club sorted before the international window even came about, but we all know his "big move" was delayed by him being a billy big baws twat.

 

7 hours ago, aaid said:

You have to look at his situation as being the same as a player returning from a long term injury - in fact in some ways a player returning from an injury would have had rehab with his club. 

Say, for argument’s sake, it was a normal season and he’d had a knee injury in March which had ruled him out for the season. He’d only just returned to full training.  There’s no way in a million years he’d be near the squad and there’s no way he’d have been brought along for the ride. 

As above, if he played out his contract he would still be fit, or close to anyway.

 

And anyone saying Newcastle is a big club can gtf, they are bigger than Bournemouth but realistically they are bang average with a big fan base and that's probably all they ever will be. 

[0Neils40yarder]

12 minutes ago, Kirk said:

It's almost as if he could have played out his contract, stayed fit and probably had a club sorted before the international window even came about, but we all know his "big move" was delayed by him being a billy big baws twat.

 

As above, if he played out his contract he would still be fit, or close to anyway.

 

And anyone saying Newcastle is a big club can gtf, they are bigger than Bournemouth but realistically they are bang average with a big fan base and that's probably all they ever will be. 

Not a big club, but have a big fan base? 

 

The amount of fans is the very definition of how big a club is

[romanticscot]

Hmm, what makes a big club is going to be something many will disagree on - recent success, historical success, annual revenue, fan base - domestic, continental and global, financial backing.  Newcastle are a larger club than Bournemouth, with a huge local fan base, with no cup honors for decades - they are not a big club but they are a popular one - 20-25 years ago they used to say they were everyone's 2nd favorite team in England.  I think its a good move for Fraser if it pans out, one summer does not a summer make, the next couple of years will see if 18/19 form was a purple patch of can he get close to it - if he does, he is still relatively young and 26-28 he may get a big move to a team pushing for the EUROPA League spots or somewhere in else Europe. 

[Taylor1996]

Apparently, Bayern Munich have pulled out of a move for Aaron Hickey, leading Bologna to snap him up. (Hope it isn't true)

Daniel Church is training with Dundee, with a view of a free transfer from Celtic. (That really surprises me. I've seen Churck for the u19s and he looks superb! What is it with releasing good Scottish left backs? First Robertson, then Hickey and now possibly Church)

[Texas Pete]

30 minutes ago, Kirk said:

It's almost as if he could have played out his contract, stayed fit and probably had a club sorted before the international window even came about, but we all know his "big move" was delayed by him being a billy big baws twat.

He did see out his contract. It expired on 30th June. 

He refused to sign a new, short-term contract, which was entirely his right (even if it was a bit selfish). 

[aaid]

22 minutes ago, scotlad said:

That's all subjective. London I'll give you, but some parts of Newcastle and some of the outlying areas are lovely. Brighton's climate is more pleasant, I think it's fair to say though.

Newcastle certainly had no issues attracting top players in the '90s and '00s. The fact they're thinner on the ground now I'd put down to the way the club's run, rather than where it's located.

By the way, I'm with you about the Geordies in general - brand new people, but completely deluded when it comes to their football team, almost to Celtic-like proportions. I'm still not having it that their club is only on a par with Bournemouth though!

I’m not claiming for one second that Newcastle United is the same scale as Bournemouth. 

My point is that - purely on the football side - that there’s not a massive difference between the level of football that someone playing at Bournemouth last season would have been playing at and what he’d be playing at this season if they joined Newcastle. That’s why I view it as pretty much a sideways move  

Thats all I’m interested in seeing for Scotland players and frankly it’s all the player should be concerned with as well. 

I’m not saying it’s a bad move if it comes off but it’s a long way from being the great move that some are trying to make out it is. 

When Newcastle were signing top rate players like Ginola and the likes it’s because they were paying over the odds to get people to go there.  Shearer was obviously a local guy but he certainly didn’t go there for buttons.  I wouldn’t be surprised if he wasn’t one of the best paid players in the country when he was there  

FWIW, from what I know about players, the quality and location of the training ground is much more important than the stadium for the simple reason that they spend a lot more time there.  

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

He did see out his contract. It expired on 30th June. 

He refused to sign a new, short-term contract, which was entirely his right (even if it was a bit selfish). 

And because he wouldn’t sign that extension Howe binned him when the season restarted even though he was still under contract and eligible to play. 

I thought it was a gamble for him at the time, obviously he didn’t want to risk signing an extension for the rest of the season and get injured but he also missed out on putting himself on the shop window.

[Kirk]

3 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Not a big club, but have a big fan base? 

 

The amount of fans is the very definition of how big a club is

They have a big local fanbase, not worldwide anybody pretending they are a big club is mad. Absolute bang average yoyo side. They are big in Newcastle only!!! 

3 hours ago, romanticscot said:

Hmm, what makes a big club is going to be something many will disagree on - recent success, historical success, annual revenue, fan base - domestic, continental and global, financial backing.  Newcastle are a larger club than Bournemouth, with a huge local fan base, with no cup honors for decades - they are not a big club but they are a popular one - 20-25 years ago they used to say they were everyone's 2nd favorite team in England.  I think its a good move for Fraser if it pans out, one summer does not a summer make, the next couple of years will see if 18/19 form was a purple patch of can he get close to it - if he does, he is still relatively young and 26-28 he may get a big move to a team pushing for the EUROPA League spots or somewhere in else Europe. 

This. I think it'll be a shite move tbh, Newcastle struggle for any sort of consistency most seasons, plus he will probably be injured two weeks in.

3 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

He did see out his contract. It expired on 30th June. 

He refused to sign a new, short-term contract, which was entirely his right (even if it was a bit selfish). 

Sorry that's correct, I meant see out the season and help his team, and as someone said put himself in the window. Absolute dick move.

3 hours ago, aaid said:

And because he wouldn’t sign that extension Howe binned him when the season restarted even though he was still under contract and eligible to play. 

I thought it was a gamble for him at the time, obviously he didn’t want to risk signing an extension for the rest of the season and get injured but he also missed out on putting himself on the shop window.

The not getting injured stuff is nonsense.

[0Neils40yarder]

4 minutes ago, Kirk said:

They have a big local fanbase, not worldwide anybody pretending they are a big club is mad. Absolute bang average yoyo side. They are big in Newcastle only!!! 

This. I think it'll be a shite move tbh, Newcastle struggle for any sort of consistency most seasons, plus he will probably be injured two weeks in.

Sorry that's correct, I meant see out the season and help his team, and as someone said put himself in the window. Absolute dick move.

The not getting injured stuff is nonsense.

A big fan base, but not a big club...read that back ffs

[ParisInAKilt]

8 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

Maybe. 

He really should be nowhere near the squad at the moment anyway in my opinion. He shouldn’t have had to request not to be selected as Clarke shouldn’t have been picking him in the first place.  

I understand that viewpoint, however I still doubt Frasers commitment to the team, but again he’s hardly alone in that