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Scottish player transfers


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3 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

Very disappointed in fraser. Expected better.  Would stick him as a squad player now.

For having signing talks with Newcastle?

Or for asking not to be selected because he’s trying to sort out his future and is not match fit? 

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11 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

For having signing talks with Newcastle?

Or for asking not to be selected because he’s trying to sort out his future and is not match fit? 

The latter... he should have made himself available. Up to Clarke to decide if he was good or fit enough.  Maybe I’m old school but I’d consider it an honour to play for my country and would take every chance I could.  Much better players than fraser would.

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15 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

The latter... he should have made himself available. Up to Clarke to decide if he was good or fit enough.  Maybe I’m old school but I’d consider it an honour to play for my country and would take every chance I could.  Much better players than fraser would.

He’s being vilified on here but I can understand him wanting to sort out a club. It would be quite difficult to do that from the Scotland training camp and even more difficult to do from the Czech Republic.

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4 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

He’s being vilified on here but I can understand him wanting to sort out a club. It would be quite difficult to do that from the Scotland training camp and even more difficult to do from the Czech Republic.

He’s got previous so doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt. 

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26 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

He’s got previous so doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt. 

Exactly,

I don't think I've ever seen a player with more dubious call offs than Fraser. Add to that the way he treated Bournemouth (and even Aberdeen) through his transfer shenanigans and you just get the sense that he isn't about anyone other than himself. He'll need a number of stellar performances in the blue jersey to make up for the last 2 or 3 years.

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5 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

He’s being vilified on here but I can understand him wanting to sort out a club. It would be quite difficult to do that from the Scotland training camp and even more difficult to do from the Czech Republic.

Rightly so, I am a huge fan of his ability but he doesn't turn up for squads. If he pulls out two stellar performances to get us to the euros then he might begin to get some respect on here. 

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1 hour ago, COLT NY said:

Exactly,

I don't think I've ever seen a player with more dubious call offs than Fraser. Add to that the way he treated Bournemouth (and even Aberdeen) through his transfer shenanigans and you just get the sense that he isn't about anyone other than himself. He'll need a number of stellar performances in the blue jersey to make up for the last 2 or 3 years.

I’ve never been overly impressed with his performances for the National Team but then he’s hardly unique in that.  

However in this case his omission from the squad isn’t unexpected and I wouldn’t view it as him “making himself unavailable” in the way some have done.

Not only has he not played any football for six months but he won’t have done any training either. Obviously you’d like to think he’s been keeping his fitness level up but wouldn’t be doing any group training.  

When teams in England were allowed to restart training in May or whenever with a view to the season resuming, since he wouldn’t sign a short-term extension, he was effectively without a club from that point on. 

Also given the circumstances around COVID restrictions, I doubt he’d be able to use the usual route players between clubs do and train with another club - or use their facilities- whose manager they are friendly with. 

You’d like to think that either he’s had that conversation with Clarke in advance of the squad announcement or he’s well aware of his position. 

He needs to get a new club and get a decent amount of pre-season training in before he can even think of playing at any sort of level. 

 

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6 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

He’s being vilified on here but I can understand him wanting to sort out a club. It would be quite difficult to do that from the Scotland training camp and even more difficult to do from the Czech Republic.

It really woupdnt be difficult at all.

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2 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

It really woupdnt be difficult at all.

You have to look at his situation as being the same as a player returning from a long term injury - in fact in some ways a player returning from an injury would have had rehab with his club. 

Say, for argument’s sake, it was a normal season and he’d had a knee injury in March which had ruled him out for the season. He’d only just returned to full training.  There’s no way in a million years he’d be near the squad and there’s no way he’d have been brought along for the ride. 

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8 hours ago, aaid said:

I’m not disputing that. However what I am disputing is two things.  Firstly that Newcastle is a “massive club”, they’re not. 

Secondly, when Fraser turned down a contract extension at Bournemouth last summer, Newcastle has finished the previous season one place higher than Bournemouth on goal difference. 

Had he signed for Newcastle then it wouldn’t have been considered a great move.  

He’s having to sign for Newcastle purely because he has no better options and the hoped for big move probably disappeared- if it were ever on the cards - because of his poor form last season, which is pretty much all down to him and his attitude. 

In footballing terms alone, it’s no better a step up from the level he was at at Bournemouth.  Maybe has he been a bit more professional - even if Bournemouth has still been relegated - he’d have gotten a better move. 

You suggested it's a side ways move, it clearly isn't...

 

...Bournemouth arent even a championship size club

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7 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

You suggested it's a side ways move, it clearly isn't...

 

...Bournemouth arent even a championship size club

When he turned down the contract at Bournemouth they’d finished 14th on 45 points. Newcastle had finished 13th also on 45 points. 

Thats when he decided he was going to move and that’s the comparison.  Perhaps with Bournemouth being relegated it looks like a good move for him but at the time when he decided his future was elsewhere Newcastle was no better an option.  

If he signs for Newcastle it will be because he hasn’t had any better options and it will certainly fall well short of what he thought he could’ve achieved. 

That’s the risk you take when you play the game of running down your contract rather than taking a transfer when you’re hot property.  

Since you’ll be a free agent, you’ll be able to negotiate a better financial package but if in the interim your form goes off a cliff then your options become more limited.  

Anyone trying to talk Newcastle up as some form of good move is deluding themselves.  

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52 minutes ago, aaid said:

When he turned down the contract at Bournemouth they’d finished 14th on 45 points. Newcastle had finished 13th also on 45 points. 

Thats when he decided he was going to move and that’s the comparison.  Perhaps with Bournemouth being relegated it looks like a good move for him but at the time when he decided his future was elsewhere Newcastle was no better an option.  

If he signs for Newcastle it will be because he hasn’t had any better options and it will certainly fall well short of what he thought he could’ve achieved. 

That’s the risk you take when you play the game of running down your contract rather than taking a transfer when you’re hot property.  

Since you’ll be a free agent, you’ll be able to negotiate a better financial package but if in the interim your form goes off a cliff then your options become more limited.  

Anyone trying to talk Newcastle up as some form of good move is deluding themselves.  

It's not as if he's signed for Real Madrid but come on, Newcastle United is an upgrade on Bournemouth, there's no two ways about it. 

I've spent a bit of time in Newcastle over the years - people live and breathe their football team there. Nae harm to Bournemouth, but they're a third tier club punching above their weight.  If Fraser signs for Newcastle he will immediately be under a lot more scrutiny and pressure to perform and if he does it'll raise his profile significantly.

 

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35 minutes ago, scotlad said:

It's not as if he's signed for Real Madrid but come on, Newcastle United is an upgrade on Bournemouth, there's no two ways about it. 

I've spent a bit of time in Newcastle over the years - people live and breathe their football team there. Nae harm to Bournemouth, but they're a third tier club punching above their weight.  If Fraser signs for Newcastle he will immediately be under a lot more scrutiny and pressure to perform and if he does it'll raise his profile significantly.

 

Remind me again of what Newcastle have actually achieved over the last half a century?   

They absolute best you can say about them is that they are a lower-mid table EPL team. Bang average with owners with no ambition to be anything other than that. 

As for being under increased scrutiny at Newcastle, don’t make me laugh.  A big part of why they’ve been so consistently shite over the decades is that the fans indulge the players and accept mediocrity.  

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I’d prefer that these  guys just came out and said I don’t fancy it and we can all move on.  Waaaaaay better players than them have dicked us about then been dropped....   Hansen, mo Johnston, Charlie Nicholas....   at least gough had the bottle to say I don’t fancy it

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1 hour ago, aaid said:

Remind me again of what Newcastle have actually achieved over the last half a century?   

They absolute best you can say about them is that they are a lower-mid table EPL team. Bang average with owners with no ambition to be anything other than that. 

As for being under increased scrutiny at Newcastle, don’t make me laugh.  A big part of why they’ve been so consistently shite over the decades is that the fans indulge the players and accept mediocrity.  

Well compared to Bournemouth they have spent far longer in the top flight. They were narrowly pipped for the title in the 1990s. They have had a number of European campaigns and even played in the Champions League and won a minor European club title.

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1 hour ago, aaid said:

Remind me again of what Newcastle have actually achieved over the last half a century?   

They absolute best you can say about them is that they are a lower-mid table EPL team. Bang average with owners with no ambition to be anything other than that. 

As for being under increased scrutiny at Newcastle, don’t make me laugh.  A big part of why they’ve been so consistently shite over the decades is that the fans indulge the players and accept mediocrity.  

Not as much as they probably should have, but still a lot more than Bournemouth!  Despite their relative dearth of success they are still one of the best supported teams in the EPL. Their potential is huge compared to Bournemouth's, who will probably end up back in the English third tier before much longer.

Newcastle is a football-mad city. It's also a one club city, where, unlike Leeds for instance, football is very much the sport of choice.  If he succeeds there they'll love him forever (unless he signs for Sunderland in the future).  

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44 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Well compared to Bournemouth they have spent far longer in the top flight. They were narrowly pipped for the title in the 1990s. They have had a number of European campaigns and even played in the Champions League and won a minor European club title.

In 1969.  The last major trophy they won unless you want to count the Championship - which of course is a double edged sword - or the Texaco Cup in the 1970s.

Wigan have had more success than Newcastle in recent years.

 

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17 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Not as much as they probably should have, but still a lot more than Bournemouth!  Despite their relative dearth of success they are still one of the best supported teams in the EPL. Their potential is huge compared to Bournemouth's, who will probably end up back in the English third tier before much longer.

Newcastle is a football-mad city. It's also a one club city, where, unlike Leeds for instance, football is very much the sport of choice.  If he succeeds there they'll love him forever (unless he signs for Sunderland in the future).  

As much as I dislike them, at least Leeds can lay claim to being one of the larger clubs in English football, they're bigger than Newcastle in every respect.

Interesting that you mention Sunderland, while they're an even bigger basket case than Newcastle these days, they could traditionally be considered to be a much bigger club that Newcastle.

Anyway, a player when signing for a club should be considering the length of his contract and what he can achieve in that period, not looking at whether they won the Fairs cup 50 years ago or that they'll never have to buy a pint in the Bigg Market because they finished 10th one year and not 13th.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that Fraser should've stayed at Bournemouth, he'd run his course there and probably had done as much there as he could've done.

i just don't see going to Newcastle as being any sort of step up for him.   Much the same as going to Palace, Brighton, West Ham or anyone of those lower-mid table teams.

 

Edited by aaid
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5 minutes ago, aaid said:

In 1969.  The last major trophy they won unless you want to count the Championship - which of course is a double edged sword - or the Texaco Cup in the 1970s.

Wigan have had more success than Newcastle in recent years.

 

It cannot be denied Newcastle are NOT a side ward move compared to Bournemouth especially since Bournemouth has just been relegated. That is your remark I must pick you up on. Potentially and stature-wise Newcastle are a far bigger club than Bournemouth. You just have to look at the club history and support for evidence of that. Sure its not a move to a title challenging team but for me as a Scotland fan that does not interest me. I just want to see our players at clubs getting regular first team football.

Edited by Caledonian Craig
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4 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

It cannot be denied Newcastle are NOT a side ward move compared to Bournemouth especially since Bournemouth has just been relegated. That is your remark I must pick you up on. Potentially and stature-wise Newcastle are a far bigger club than Bournemouth. You just have to look at the club history and support for evidence of that. Sure its not a move to a title challenging team but for me as a Scotland fan that does not interest me. I just want to see our players at clubs getting regular first team football.

Look at what I've actually been saying.

Fraser made his decision to leave Bournemouth a year ago - when he did that Newcastle would've been considered as about a sideways move as its possible to get.   The fact that Bournemouth subsequently were relegated and Fraser's form was abysmal doesn't alter that.  When he rejected the contract at Bournemouth, he was being linked with the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool, not Newcastle, Palace and Fulham as he is now and which tells you everything you need to know.   If he signs for Newcastle then he'll be playing at a similar level of football for a team of a similar quality as he was with Bournemouth, that's not improvement.

Going on about Newcastle's "potential" is like those people still thinking that Islam Feruz will screw the nut or calling for Jordan Rhodes to be included in the squad.

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