Peru - Match Thread

[Parklife]

13 minutes ago, wanderer said:

To be pedantic, they beat a Brazil second string side in the Copa America after half the squad pulled out/withdrew before the tournament started (Barca refused to release Neymar IIRC)

They beat Brazil in a competitive Copa America game before losing to Colombia (who finished 3rd) on penalties. 

You can try and use semantics to back-up your point if your initial comment if you like though. 

If we had done what Peru have over the last couple of years, half of the TAMB would be exclaiming we were going to win the WC. 

[Squirrelhumper]

2 hours ago, daviebee said:

I set my alarm and got up to watch that load of utter honking guff. Would've been better staying asleep and letting a nightmare continue.

Goalie - total dross. Somebody in a fkin straitjacket would've made a better attempt at the 2nd goal. As for the first... fck me. We were actually playing a not too bad containing game at that point but it worries me that that'll be the extent of our tactics under McLeish. No shots? Not acceptable.

McGinn - anonymous, ditto Murphy. McLean - don't see what that guy offers out wide, in the middle or anywhere else. I thought McGeouch looked quite tidy in possession though.

Phillips - missing the Mexico game and is away home. Just as well they told us that cos nobody would've noticed.

McBurnie - looks what he is, a Championship-level player, not nearly good enough but there's nobody else.

Not sure why the full-backs are getting a trashing on here. O'Donnell was left with 2 men on him at the 2nd goal and McTominay should surely have done better with the clearance than set it back up for the same guy. Stevenson will likely never get another cap but is a good solid club pro who did well enough.

Agree with all of that, especially the last bit.

I purposely never mentioned the full backs event though I felt the bashing was harsh. I watched SOD closely as I've a vested interest and I thought apart from getting dragged out for the 2nd, he had a solid game. As did Stevenson.

I don't know what folk are expecting. Guys with more caps like Philips, McGinn, McLean, McTominay etc all had far worse games.

Neither full back was helped by the dross in front of them.

[ONeils4oyarder]

I think right full-back is by far our weakest position, we have no one of any real quality to play there and apparently no youngsters pushing their way up either. The likes of O'Donnell, and Cadden, will never do at that level in a month of Sundays. Granted, I only watched the highlights, because I'm not some mental-case, Vampire-like Scotland fan, but in a 4minute reel, O'Donnell was dragged out of position for the 2nd goal, and set up one of the Peruvians for a free-shot on our goal.

 

Also, to highlight, McGinn, McTominay and McLean as being more experienced than our two full-backs, is stretching the truth just a wee bit...the only players last night that could be considered experienced International fitba players, are Mulgrew and possibly Phillips

Edited May 30, 2018 by ONeils4oyarder

[Squirrelhumper]

32 minutes ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

 

 

Also, to highlight, McGinn, McTominay and McLean as being more experienced than our two full-backs, is stretching the truth just a wee bit...the only players last night that could be considered experienced International fitba players, are Mulgrew and possibly Phillips

None of them were making their debut last night, nor were they playing behind 3 players who couldn't hold onto the ball for more than 2 passes in a row!

Felt sorry for the defence last night as they got no protection from the central mid.

[Marky]

38 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

None of them were making their debut last night, nor were they playing behind 3 players who couldn't hold onto the ball for more than 2 passes in a row!

Felt sorry for the defence last night as they got no protection from the central mid.

And still did reasonably well in my opinion. Particularly the centre backs, but agree the full backs weren't as bad as being made out.

[Hertsscot]

I'm going to stick up for Jordan Archer a bit.  Did he make two bad errors last night/this morning?  Absolutely.  Should we be saying that's his last game for Scotland?  No.  He's 25, how many other decent keepers have we got aged between 20 and 30? Apart from Bain, everyone else, Gordon, Marshall, McGregor, McLaughlin are several years older.  I know that keepers often get better with age but, unless Angus Gunn changes his mind, there's thin pickings in the 20-30 age group and that's where our next keeper will come from.  He didn't have a good debut and he shouldn't be our number one just now but let's not write him off too soon.

[Toepoke]

2 hours ago, wanderer said:

Was something in media the other day that Danny Wilson will join up with the squad in Mexico

Are they singing the anthem?

 

[ceudmilefailte]

9 hours ago, BremnerLorimerGray said:

McBurnie is dung, 

Was he? Thought he was a definite positive, more involved in the game in his half hour than half the team.

17 hours ago, Clyde1998 said:

. O'Donnell has Paterson, Whittaker and Anya ahead of him. With these three areas, there are better players to come in for the competitive fixtures.

Seriously? a midfielder or two guys I would hope will never make a squad let alone the team. think we have to play a back four with the right back options Tierney or Fraser, hopefully Bournemouth will continue to experiment with the latter in that position

[mccaughey85]

3 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

I'm going to stick up for Jordan Archer a bit.  Did he make two bad errors last night/this morning?  Absolutely.  Should we be saying that's his last game for Scotland?  No.  He's 25, how many other decent keepers have we got aged between 20 and 30? Apart from Bain, everyone else, Gordon, Marshall, McGregor, McLaughlin are several years older.  I know that keepers often get better with age but, unless Angus Gunn changes his mind, there's thin pickings in the 20-30 age group and that's where our next keeper will come from.  He didn't have a good debut and he shouldn't be our number one just now but let's not write him off too soon.

I agree with this. The guy had a bad debut but he has been doing reasonably well for Millwall the last couple of years and is only 25 which is pretty young for a goalkeeper. He shouldn't be number 1 right now but he does deserve another chance further down the line if he's playing well at club level.

[DoonTheSlope]

51 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Was he? Thought he was a definite positive, more involved in the game in his half hour than half the team.

Seriously? a midfielder or two guys I would hope will never make a squad let alone the team. think we have to play a back four with the right back options Tierney or Fraser, hopefully Bournemouth will continue to experiment with the latter in that position

Whittaker? 🤨

Quoted the wrang man

Edited May 30, 2018 by DoonTheSlope

[DoonTheSlope]

3 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Are they singing the anthem?

 

Taking a knee mibbie 

[ceudmilefailte]

18 hours ago, DoonTheSlope said:

He’s overrated, I’ve been saying it for two seasons now

Got to admit I don't get the hype about him either. Reminds me a bit of the Riordan and O'Conner debate  a few years back when it seemed every one outside Easter Rd rated Riordan as the prospect and every one inside thought O'Conner

Think the Hibs fans were right even if only marginally.

[macy37]

7 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

I'm going to stick up for Jordan Archer a bit.  Did he make two bad errors last night/this morning?  Absolutely.  Should we be saying that's his last game for Scotland?  No.  He's 25, how many other decent keepers have we got aged between 20 and 30? Apart from Bain, everyone else, Gordon, Marshall, McGregor, McLaughlin are several years older.  I know that keepers often get better with age but, unless Angus Gunn changes his mind, there's thin pickings in the 20-30 age group and that's where our next keeper will come from.  He didn't have a good debut and he shouldn't be our number one just now but let's not write him off too soon.

McCrorie of Berwick Rangers....sorry Sevco again now, will I believe play for Scotland. Young kid who is really solid and will play for the Huns soon.

[Squirrelhumper]

15 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

I'm going to stick up for Jordan Archer a bit.  Did he make two bad errors last night/this morning?  Absolutely.  Should we be saying that's his last game for Scotland?  No.  He's 25, how many other decent keepers have we got aged between 20 and 30? Apart from Bain, everyone else, Gordon, Marshall, McGregor, McLaughlin are several years older.  I know that keepers often get better with age but, unless Angus Gunn changes his mind, there's thin pickings in the 20-30 age group and that's where our next keeper will come from.  He didn't have a good debut and he shouldn't be our number one just now but let's not write him off too soon.

Robbie Mcrorie will be Scotland number  by time Gordon quits. .

Edit just seen Macy's post. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Squirrelhumper

[ONeils4oyarder]

16 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

None of them were making their debut last night, nor were they playing behind 3 players who couldn't hold onto the ball for more than 2 passes in a row!

Felt sorry for the defence last night as they got no protection from the central mid.

None of them were making their debut, but none of them are experienced at that level. McTominay has played about 50mins of International fitba before the Peru game.

 

For what its worth, I've no problem with trying these guys out in these most pointless of games, but to defend O'Donnell by saying that he is inexperienced and in the same sentence have a bash at McTominay and McLean is a wee bit mental...although I understand you have a rager for SOD😉

[Hertsscot]

30 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Robbie Mcrorie will be Scotland number  by time Gordon quits. .

Edit just seen Macy's post. 

As a Rangers fan I'd be delighted!  Seems he played well yesterday in the victory over France.

[Squirrelhumper]

29 minutes ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

None of them were making their debut, but none of them are experienced at that level. McTominay has played about 50mins of International fitba before the Peru game.

 

For what its worth, I've no problem with trying these guys out in these most pointless of games, but to defend O'Donnell by saying that he is inexperienced and in the same sentence have a bash at McTominay and McLean is a wee bit mental...although I understand you have a rager for SOD😉

I'm not defending SOD, he was at fault for the 2nd but so were quite a few players.

McTominay has played in big games for Man Utd, McLean less so for Aberdeen but he's at least played in several cup finals/Europe etc.

SOD has none of that experience.  It'll have been the biggest game of his life by some distance, so I'd cut him and other debutants some slack.

Likes of Phillips have been shite for years and would be no miss.

[aaid]

12 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

I agree with this. The guy had a bad debut but he has been doing reasonably well for Millwall the last couple of years and is only 25 which is pretty young for a goalkeeper. He shouldn't be number 1 right now but he does deserve another chance further down the line if he's playing well at club level.

25 is young for a goalkeeper, nonsense.  Thibault Cortois only turned 26 two weeks ago.

I'm not writing Archer off on the back of a bad debut but we need to get rid of this idea of "oh he's only young"

[PASTA Mick]

1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Robbie Mcrorie will be Scotland number  by time Gordon quits. .

Edit just seen Macy's post. 

3rd choice this season?

He'll need to get out on loan again. 

[ONeils4oyarder]

33 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I'm not defending SOD, he was at fault for the 2nd but so were quite a few players.

McTominay has played in big games for Man Utd, McLean less so for Aberdeen but he's at least played in several cup finals/Europe etc.

SOD has none of that experience.  It'll have been the biggest game of his life by some distance, so I'd cut him and other debutants some slack.

Likes of Phillips have been shite for years and would be no miss.

So Cadden is more experienced than O'Donnell based on playing in a few Cup Finals? 

 

You're splitting hairs big man...hardly any of the players on show the other night could be deemed 'experienced'

[wanderer]

52 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

3rd choice this season?

He'll need to get out on loan again. 

I doubt he will even be 3rd this season, as the slightly older Liam Kelly is apparently rated higher at Rangers than McCorrie  

[Hertsscot]

Out of interest what is the least experienced team we've ever put out in terms of caps?  The team against Peru must be near to it.

[andyD]

My thoughts having stayed up at watched the whole thing:

Archer: Dealt with the simple stuff well and gave some confidence in that. But then the first goal he went full Karius, it was absolutely crazy. For the 2nd, he could maybe have done better, but I'm never going to crucify a keeper for not stopping a shot from 7 yards out. The shot shouldn't have happened, end of, for me. He'll learn from the penalty and other than that didn't have a terrible game. He does tend to push stuff rather than hold it, but that's just a style that's worked for him. Defense needs to be aware of it. I don't think he's a write-off despite the mistake(s).

O'Donnell: Looked confident and dealt with a few pressure situations well, where McLean knocked it back to him in tight positions. Also a key part of some of our better attacking forays, putting thru Phillips, and putting in a decent cross. Had a miscommunication with Mulgrew at one point, but that stuff happens when you've never played together before (same happened with McKenna and McTominay). No blame on him for the 2nd. He's left 2 on one and can't cover both. Overall a fairly decent display tbh. Should be in squads going forward until a better right back appears.

Stevenson: Pretty non-existent defensively. His man breezed past him or shrugged him off for most of the game. Seemed to misjudge the flight of the ball a lot, which is worrying. His distribution was poor, and the set pieces he took were pretty average. Probably best that he's like 5th in line at left back. Shouldn't see him again in future squads.

Mulgrew: Had a decent game for most of it. Will call him up for failing to step up on Farfan for the 2nd goal. It was his man, and it was too easy to find the space for the shot.

McKenna: Had a decent game all round. Not much else to say about him. The miscommunication with McTominay is what you'd expect from two young players, who've barely played together. So McKenna looks promising for the future.

McGeough: Oh dear. Slow, too deep, put pressure on our defense a few times by running back and along the path of passes with his marker.. just bizarre. Poor on set pieces. Gave the ball away at least 3 times in our own half. He did move the ball from one centerback to the other pretty well, looks ok on the ball.. but i really didnt see the point of him. He's too deep to be effective with the ball.. and he's too small and weak to contribute anything defensively. It was his runner, that he let go, that doubled up on O'Donnell for the 2nd goal.. if he'd gone with then probably nothing happens. Really no desire to see him in a Scotland shirt based on this performance, he didn't look anywhere near good enough.

McGinn: Had to remind myself he was playing. He was utterly anonymous in the 1st half. Caught in possession at least 3 times. Actually helped the build up to their 2nd, by poking the ball to the guy who puts them in behind. Worried about him based on this display. Seems like a big part of his game is carrying the ball, running past people, which he can do in the Scottish Prem.. but at international level he's not quick or strong enough to do that. He kept trying it, kept failing and disappeared the rest of the time. By far his worst Scotland performance so far.

McTominay: As the best of the midfield 3. Looked lively , athletic. Closed people down, hassled, won the ball numerous times, including in their half. Weirdly he was playing as the furthest forward of our midfield 3, which i didn't expect, but hey. Did get caught in possession once, but still by far the best of our central midfielders on show.

McLean: Pretty much terrible. Gave the ball away a lot in the first hour. Looked stroppy when something didn't go his way (shrugging in frustration when someone passed him instead of working back. reminded me a bit of snoddy, but without the skill). Utterly absent defensively and was even destructive. He'd sometimes come back, pick p a player, then vocally hand them off as soon as that player moved away from where he was standing. This happened a few times, and it just confused the players behind as McLean should have gone with that runner, not handed him off without checking what was happening behind him. Our defensive shape had to adapt because McLean didn't want to defend. It was rubbish. When he went to attacking mid, he had a few good touches, but not in any effective way. Really don't see him having made a case to even be in a squad in future, he was that bad.

Murphy: Was ok.. i guess. offered little going forward, but we had set up so defensive that we didn't offer our wide players much option to go forward. He did the defensive stuff diligently, but he doesn't have any spark at all. Don't see a eason for him to be in future squads.

Phillips: Led the line well initially, making trouble while playing very isolated. 2nd half he dropped off and didn't really look like he was bothered, which was a shame. Basically a thankless task playing up front in that first hour or so.

Paterson: Came on at right wing, which was a bit off. Used to be a right back, now a center mid. so we play him right wing. Ok. Offered, put in the best cross of the game from our point of view. So was decent in the time he had. Would have preferred to see him in the middle tho.

McBurnie: Got involved. Had the one chance that came thru to him, but it was at a bit of an awkward height (up by his knee). Hassled a bit and, along with Paterson and Morgan, was part of our attack looking a bit more productive. Want to see more of him. Should get the full game against Mexico for me, we need to bed him in, playing Phillips is fine, but we need to think of the future too.

Morgan: What a lovely first contribution that was. Effortlessly skipping past a few players, opening up space and putting thru Paterson for our best attack of the game. Maybe the Peruvians were asleep due to the unimaginative Murphy having played the first hour, but Morgan looked interested, did defensive work and was maybe our most threatening looking player offensively, most likely to make something happen. Solid debut. Should get more time against Mexico.

Shinnie: Was actually reasonably impressed with him, tho maybe it was judged against the dross of McGeough and McGinn. He was more involved defensively than both of them put together in the little time he had. He was vocal and organising the midfield. Certainly made a case for future inclusion.

Cadden: Not sure he touched the ball. But had very little time, so would be harsh to judge him.

 

Overall: We Looked organised, which is good. But we looked utterly negative, which is a massive minus. At 2-0 down we stayed negative. It looked like damage control from minute 1 to me. The line up was very defensive, we offered nothing going forward, but that's because we didn't put anyone on the pitch to do that. Blame lies with McLeish for that. We did start to look better after the changes, but it was too little too late and not enough time together for those players to gel at all for future games. For me it's taught us some things about some of the fringe players, unfortunately, in most cases what it showed us was that they're not up to the level.

Pluses: O'Donnell, McKenna, McTominay, Morgan, Shinnie.
Minuses: Archer, Stevenson, McGeough, McGinn, McLean, Murphy. McLeish.

 

[Squirrelhumper]

1 hour ago, PASTA Mick said:

3rd choice this season?

He'll need to get out on loan again. 

Rangers will see Fotheringham if anyone is daft enough to buy him.

But aye, he'll go on loan.

[mccaughey85]

4 hours ago, aaid said:

25 is young for a goalkeeper, nonsense.  Thibault Cortois only turned 26 two weeks ago.

I'm not writing Archer off on the back of a bad debut but we need to get rid of this idea of "oh he's only young"

25 is relatively young for a keeper and it was his international debut I think. There are exceptions that break through at a young age like courtois but alot of keepers don't start playing regularly til 23/24 and usually hit their peak around mid 30s. He didn't exactly play well but he shouldn't be discarded over a mistake on his debut in a meaningless match. We should Keep him in around the squad as most of our keepers are hitting hitting their late 30s.