Scottish Cup Final

[Dalgety Bay TA]

9 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Agree to a certain extent but whilst he played with 5 in midfield, he could have made that more compact and harder to break down (Ie don't play passengers like Sinclair).

If that was the case with players not being good enough, then Scotland should have been humped off France, Spain, Germany etc in the past.

You have to take a pragmatic approach and play a system to at least give you a chance of a result. Celtic were beaten before a ball was kicked in those games.

PSG have to scrap results domestically against the likes of Toulouse, Monpellier, Strasbourg. Caen etc. Saying they don't have good enough players isn't an excuse for losing 12 goals (could have been far worse) in 2 games.

Might not be pretty on the eye but neither is losing 6 or 7 and praying they take the foot off the gas!

I think he did take a pragmatic approach and try to play a more solid system. Unfortunately PSG with Celtic, are like Celtic in Scotland. If they turn up and play their game they are going to win, usually comfortably. When the bigger games come along the players turn up and usually play their best. You reference the PSG results where they scraped results v likes of Caen. That, IMO, is the same as Celtic scraping results in Scotland as they have done this season. But come the big games, v Rangers, Aberdeen, cup semi's and finals, Celtic players usually put in a performance. As do PSG players domestically and in Europe. Their "performance" will always be too strong for Celtic even at their best and trying to remain tight in a game where they need everything to go their way. It happens on the odd occurrence (Celtic beating Barca) but those are the odd odd occasions and the norm will usually always see the "big" team win when they put their mind to.

 

Anyway, all the above nit picking IMO. The only point I was interested in getting across was countering RB's claim that Celtic/Rodgers only know one way to play and struggle to change that. My original answer stands, he has varied his tactical set up more this season than last. He's went 4231, 451, 442, 343, 433, 352 at times this season depending on opponents and player availability. He changed his formation at least twice in cup final alone. To suggest he only has one way to play is just wrong.

[RenfrewBlue]

1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Agree to a certain extent but whilst he played with 5 in midfield, he could have made that more compact and harder to break down (Ie don't play passengers like Sinclair).

If that was the case with players not being good enough, then Scotland should have been humped off France, Spain, Germany etc in the past.

You have to take a pragmatic approach and play a system to at least give you a chance of a result. Celtic were beaten before a ball was kicked in those games.

PSG have to scrap results domestically against the likes of Toulouse, Monpellier, Strasbourg. Caen etc. Saying they don't have good enough players isn't an excuse for losing 12 goals (could have been far worse) in 2 games.

Might not be pretty on the eye but neither is losing 6 or 7 and praying they take the foot off the gas!

Exactly the point. You have to change when the opposition are of that calibre. The fact that Rogers can't put out a solid team against PSG etc shows his lack of flexibility. 

If you could blend Walter Smiths defensive solidity with Rodgers attacking flair then you'd have a rounded coach. 

[RenfrewBlue]

1 hour ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

I think he did take a pragmatic approach and try to play a more solid system. Unfortunately PSG with Celtic, are like Celtic in Scotland. If they turn up and play their game they are going to win, usually comfortably. When the bigger games come along the players turn up and usually play their best. You reference the PSG results where they scraped results v likes of Caen. That, IMO, is the same as Celtic scraping results in Scotland as they have done this season. But come the big games, v Rangers, Aberdeen, cup semi's and finals, Celtic players usually put in a performance. As do PSG players domestically and in Europe. Their "performance" will always be too strong for Celtic even at their best and trying to remain tight in a game where they need everything to go their way. It happens on the odd occurrence (Celtic beating Barca) but those are the odd odd occasions and the norm will usually always see the "big" team win when they put their mind to.

 

Anyway, all the above nit picking IMO. The only point I was interested in getting across was countering RB's claim that Celtic/Rodgers only know one way to play and struggle to change that. My original answer stands, he has varied his tactical set up more this season than last. He's went 4231, 451, 442, 343, 433, 352 at times this season depending on opponents and player availability. He changed his formation at least twice in cup final alone. To suggest he only has one way to play is just wrong.

I'll bow to your superior knowledge on this as I don't watch Celtic that regularly and occasionally from behind the couch. 😉

From what I've seen (ignoring old firm games) there's very little changes in the way Celtic play. In Scotland they quite frequently don't have to. 

[sbcmfc]

3 hours ago, Scotland Ever More said:

Not at all. You said it was divisive, it wasn't, and the reaction it got from the Celtic support backs that up. 

As for the Motherwell bois, they were too busy singing songs about peidos and shouting abuse at families of Celtic fans walking down from Mount Florida to pick a side of this "political debate" as you put it. I know who I'd rather share a terrace with.

So every Celtic fan is on the side of the Palestinians and none look at the conflict their from the other side?

(I don’t know a great deal about it, like I suspect a fair number of the Celtic support, so don’t have a side, but I wouldn’t want to stand under the banner of either at a football match)

1 hour ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

The abuse I witnessed was very much coming from the Celtic fans towards the Motherwell ones...there are halfwits in every support

I didn’t see any trouble started by ‘well fans, or hear any paedo chants (which admittedly was a pleasant change), but have no doubt there were some roasters in the Motherwell support, we had nearly 4 times our usual support or half the population of Motherwell at the game.

The only bother I saw was a fat cunt Celtic fan in his 50s fighting with Motherwell fans in front of distraught kids outside the Florida park along to Cathcart road.

[slasher]

30 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

So every Celtic fan is on the side of the Palestinians and none look at the conflict their from the other side?

(I don’t know a great deal about it, like I suspect a fair number of the Celtic support, so don’t have a side, but I wouldn’t want to stand under the banner of either at a football match)

I didn’t see any trouble started by ‘well fans, or hear any paedo chants (which admittedly was a pleasant change), but have no doubt there were some roasters in the Motherwell support, we had nearly 4 times our usual support or half the population of Motherwell at the game.

The only bother I saw was a fat cunt Celtic fan in his 50s fighting with Motherwell fans in front of distraught kids outside the Florida park along to Cathcart road.

It's not about picking a side. It's about condemning state sponsored murder or ethnic cleansing whichever you prefer. The fact that you are not interested and can't be arsed to inform yourself on the facts says more about you than anything else. Whether or not it has a place at the football is another debate. 

As far as bother on Saturday goes, other than a few verbals I didn't see anything worthy of note. 

[Och Aye]

On facebook there is a Motherwell past and present page. There was a picture on it with banners wishing Motherwell all the best in the cup final. It turned into a right bitter bitch fest. This would not have happened if any other club was involved other than Celtic/Rangers. Instant mayhem when these f#ckers are involved. I don't know why the two of them don't go and look at struggling clubs in the north of England buy them over, relocate there, rename them and bingo they're on the way to the place they want to be, the English Premiership. It would also give them a much bigger platform for their political stances.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Och Aye

[ParisInAKilt]

14 minutes ago, slasher said:

It's not about picking a side. It's about condemning state sponsored murder or ethnic cleansing whichever you prefer. The fact that you are not interested and can't be arsed to inform yourself on the facts says more about you than anything else. Whether or not it has a place at the football is another debate. 

As far as bother on Saturday goes, other than a few verbals I didn't see anything worthy of note. 

But harsh that. 

There’s probably a lot of awful state sponsorred crimes we aren’t aware of. 

Wheres Celtics banner for Syria or Libya? 

[slasher]

4 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

But harsh that. 

There’s probably a lot of awful state sponsorred crimes we aren’t aware of. 

Wheres Celtics banner for Syria or Libya? 

Sorry, but I tend to think murdering children in cold blood is harsh. As for Syria, well sbcmfc wants a side to pick. There are more interests at play there than a 50p coin so you'd be hard pushed the place is a basket case. But if it's more banners you want we'll see what we can do 👍

[ParisInAKilt]

2 minutes ago, slasher said:

Sorry, but I tend to think murdering children in cold blood is harsh. As for Syria, well sbcmfc wants a side to pick. There are more interests at play there than a 50p coin so you'd be hard pushed the place is a basket case. But if it's more banners you want we'll see what we can do 👍

Doubt you’d have anyone disagree with that. 

I do find it ironic you’re having a go at sbmfc for “can’t be arsed to inform yourself on the facts says more about you than anything else” aren’t you doing the same with Syria based on the 50p comment?

[slasher]

12 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Doubt you’d have anyone disagree with that. 

I do find it ironic you’re having a go at sbmfc for “can’t be arsed to inform yourself on the facts says more about you than anything else” aren’t you doing the same with Syria based on the 50p comment?

Not really, the situation in Syria is seriously complicated by the number factions involved. I don't see what's ill informed about saying that. 

Edited May 22, 2018 by slasher

[ParisInAKilt]

3 minutes ago, slasher said:

Not really, the situation in Syria is seriously complicated by the number factions involved. I don't see what's I'll informed about saying that. 

It's not about picking a side. It's about condemning state sponsored murder or ethnic cleansing whichever you prefer. The fact that you are not interested and can't be arsed to inform yourself on the facts says more about you than anything else. Whether or not it has a place at the football is another debate. 

 

[Guest faircity]

You know as well as I do that more than half the fannies standing in the vicinity of that display couldnt point out Palestine on a map. Utter cretins. 

[Squirrelhumper]

3 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

I think he did take a pragmatic approach and try to play a more solid system. Unfortunately PSG with Celtic, are like Celtic in Scotland. If they turn up and play their game they are going to win, usually comfortably. When the bigger games come along the players turn up and usually play their best. You reference the PSG results where they scraped results v likes of Caen. That, IMO, is the same as Celtic scraping results in Scotland as they have done this season. But come the big games, v Rangers, Aberdeen, cup semi's and finals, Celtic players usually put in a performance. As do PSG players domestically and in Europe. Their "performance" will always be too strong for Celtic even at their best and trying to remain tight in a game where they need everything to go their way. It happens on the odd occurrence (Celtic beating Barca) but those are the odd odd occasions and the norm will usually always see the "big" team win when they put their mind to.

 

Anyway, all the above nit picking IMO. The only point I was interested in getting across was countering RB's claim that Celtic/Rodgers only know one way to play and struggle to change that. My original answer stands, he has varied his tactical set up more this season than last. He's went 4231, 451, 442, 343, 433, 352 at times this season depending on opponents and player availability. He changed his formation at least twice in cup final alone. To suggest he only has one way to play is just wrong.

How often do Celtic take 5, 6 or 7 goals off teams in Scotland?

PSG's biggest games aren't games against Celtic, they had already comfortably qualified by the time they tore Celtic a new one in Paris.

They then got pumped off Bayern. Whatever way it's dressed up, Celtic shouldn't be conceding that number of goals.

[Squirrelhumper]

3 minutes ago, faircity said:

You know as well as I do that more than half the fannies standing in the vicinity of that display couldnt point out Palestine on a map. Utter cretins. 

To be fair, there's not much of left to point at.

[slasher]

6 minutes ago, faircity said:

You know as well as I do that more than half the fannies standing in the vicinity of that display couldnt point out Palestine on a map. Utter cretins. 

Granted, but there's a fair few that are better informed 👍

[slasher]

11 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

It's not about picking a side. It's about condemning state sponsored murder or ethnic cleansing whichever you prefer. The fact that you are not interested and can't be arsed to inform yourself on the facts says more about you than anything else. Whether or not it has a place at the football is another debate. 

 

It would be helpful to know what you are focusing on re Syria. Assad? Russian state involvement? There are many hands at play there and all have blood on their hands. 

[Dalgety Bay TA]

15 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

How often do Celtic take 5, 6 or 7 goals off teams in Scotland?

PSG's biggest games aren't games against Celtic, they had already comfortably qualified by the time they tore Celtic a new one in Paris.

They then got pumped off Bayern. Whatever way it's dressed up, Celtic shouldn't be conceding that number of goals.

If we extend that to 4, which is still a bit of a scudding, 12 times this season.

The CL is a "big" competition with a big audience so it suggests that the "big" players are gonna turn up in these games irrespective of the opposition. PSG rattled in 24 goals in their first 5 group games this season. They wanted to show up and put in a performance.

I agree on your last point. But its not a case of not trying to stop it, its just Celtic aren't good enough to do so unless a lot goes our way and the opposition don't perform. We aren't the first or last "wee" team to get scudded by a few in the CL group stages. Liverpool took 7 of two teams this season plus there were a few more gubbings. It happens. I doubt any team doesn't try to prevent it happening, sometimes its just not possible to stop it.

[ParisInAKilt]

26 minutes ago, slasher said:

It would be helpful to know what you are focusing on re Syria. Assad? Russian state involvement? There are many hands at play there and all have blood on their hands. 

In the context of this thread I don’t think it’s important, I’ve talked about it a fair bit on other threads.

[phart]

1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said:

But harsh that. 

There’s probably a lot of awful state sponsorred crimes we aren’t aware of. 

Wheres Celtics banner for Syria or Libya? 

Palestine is a much longer well known and documented human rights plight than both Syria and Libya. To understand Libya you need to read all the leaked cables between Clinton and Bluementhal which are never going to appear on MSM.

 

 

[ParisInAKilt]

11 minutes ago, phart said:

Palestine is a much longer well known and documented human rights plight than both Syria and Libya. To understand Libya you need to read all the leaked cables between Clinton and Bluementhal which are never going to appear on MSM.

 

 

I know that, just thought slashers post to sbmfc was a bit unnecessary, even if he’s completely ignorant of Palestine (I don’t think he is)

[Squirrelhumper]

45 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

If we extend that to 4, which is still a bit of a scudding, 12 times this season.

The CL is a "big" competition with a big audience so it suggests that the "big" players are gonna turn up in these games irrespective of the opposition. PSG rattled in 24 goals in their first 5 group games this season. They wanted to show up and put in a performance.

I agree on your last point. But its not a case of not trying to stop it, its just Celtic aren't good enough to do so unless a lot goes our way and the opposition don't perform. We aren't the first or last "wee" team to get scudded by a few in the CL group stages. Liverpool took 7 of two teams this season plus there were a few more gubbings. It happens. I doubt any team doesn't try to prevent it happening, sometimes its just not possible to stop it.

Fair enough, you watch a lot more of Celtic than I do but I watched all the CL games and I thought BR could have done more to at least avoid total drubbings as you could literally see within minutes of the PSG games it wasn't working.

[Squirrelhumper]

That said, with Lustig at right back there's only so much you can do!

[Dalgety Bay TA]

5 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Fair enough, you watch a lot more of Celtic than I do but I watched all the CL games and I thought BR could have done more to at least avoid total drubbings as you could literally see within minutes of the PSG games it wasn't working.

 

5 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

That said, with Lustig at right back there's only so much you can do!

He possibly did but it just didn’t work out as he intended. Your second post also hits a bit of a nail on the head. Celtic’s strongest area is midfield. Weakest is defence. IMO, and possibly his, it isn’t worth sacrificing one of your strongest/best players to replace him with a 3rd centre back. 3 CBs of Boyata, Simunovic and Bitton isn’t going to really make a difference to the outcome and you would have to drop one of Brown, Ntcham or Rogic.

PS we were actually 1-1 in Paris when Lustig had to go off. And he was centre back, beside Simunovic with Ralston RB in the 0-5 home loss.

 If we are to improve anywhere in the summer I would hope it’s defence. I would be delighted with a new RB and 2 CBs with Ajer and Hendry as back up. We don’t even have proper back up for KT. It’s either Calvin Miller, a winger/forward or McGregor because he is left footed. Daniel Church, the grandson of my mates brother, is the next most senior natural LB but has had a injury wrecked season. He’s also only 18 in July. We can get away with makeweights out of position domestically but not really at any level past qualification stages in Europe. 

As said, with that defensive line up, a lot has to go our way and the big boys have to have a real off night for us to get results or even keep it close. There isn’t much tactically Rodgers can do at present IMO but he can improve it via transfer market and then hopefully tactically.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Dalgety Bay TA