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So, about 2/3 of the way through my initial probation period, I've had my employment terminated.

My workload has been very light, and I've had a recent relapse with depression, and my GP and the psychologist I've been seeing for CBT appointments believe that has been down to having very little to occupy my mind. 

When I've asked for other stuff to do, there's not really been anything forthcoming.

After my most recent CBT appointment, I made a proposal, based on the discussions with my GP and the psychologist that, in the interim, I work part-time, which would still allow me to get through my workload and build the hours up over the next two or three weeks to full-time again.

My employer has rejected this out of hand, not offered any alternative options, and came back with this...

"a part time role is not acceptable to us under any circumstances. We have decided to terminate your employment as you cannot meet the requirements of the position"

I realise that due to being in probation period, I'm unlikely to have any rights, but surely it's wrong that an employer can behave like this?

Edited by Cove_Sheep
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Guest BlueGaz
15 minutes ago, Cove_Sheep said:

So, about 2/3 of the way through my initial probation period, I've had my employment terminated.

My workload has been very light, and I've had a recent relapse with depression, and my GP and the psychologist I've been seeing for CBT appointments believe that has been down to having very little to occupy my mind. 

When I've asked for other stuff to do, there's not really been anything forthcoming.

After my most recent CBT appointment, I made a proposal, based on the discussions with my GP and the psychologist that, in the interim, I work part-time, which would still allow me to get through my workload and build the hours up over the next two or three weeks to full-time again.

My employer has rejected this out of hand, not offered any alternative options, and came back with this...

"a part time role is not acceptable to us under any circumstances. We have decided to terminate your employment as you cannot meet the requirements of the position"

I realise that due to being in probation period, I'm unlikely to have any rights, but surely it's wrong that an employer can behave like this?

From what you have said, you can surely fight "as you cannot meet the requirements of the position".  Just because you made a suggestion that could potentially help both parties due to light workload, you shouldn't be punished.  Can you not speak to CAB initially for some advice on that statement?  Good luck.

Probationary periods have no special legal status and employees who are on probation enjoy the same statutory employment rights as other staff.

Edited by BlueGaz
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Just now, BlueGaz said:

From what you have said, you can surely fight "as you cannot meet the requirements of the position".  Just because you made a suggestion that could potentially help both parties due to light workload, you shouldn't be punished.  Can you not speak to CAB initially for some advice on that statement?  Good luck.

Phoned the CAB, apparently no appointments are available until 25th May, so think I'll go to their drop-in tomorrow morning.

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Guest BlueGaz
Just now, Cove_Sheep said:

Phoned the CAB, apparently no appointments are available until 25th May, so think I'll go to their drop-in tomorrow morning.

Just added a bit to the bottom mate, look into that if I was you.

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Just a quick note as rushing off, but in England (& I suspect Scotland but don’t know for sure) the Equalities Act duties start with recruitment & apply to the individual person throughout, so the probation period is irrelevant in that context. Doesn’t mean they can’t get rid but 100% means they have to do it properly & that statement isn’t properly from anything I was ever taught  

Ive done a lot of this stuff in my time but obviously in England. 

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I would say that if you have been there for less than two years, your options are very limited. They can pretty much do anything they want as long as they follow their own procedures, if they have any. You should have a look at their dismissal procedures and get professional advice on your individual situation. Ever situation is slightly different.

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1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

I would say that if you have been there for less than two years, your options are very limited. They can pretty much do anything they want as long as they follow their own procedures, if they have any. You should have a look at their dismissal procedures and get professional advice on your individual situation. Ever situation is slightly different.

I phoned Citizens Advice earlier to see about making an appointment. Next appointment wasn't until 25th May, so heading in tomorrow morning to see if I can get any help from the drop-in centre.

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As has been flagged above, until you’ve got 2 years’ continuous service with the same employer you don’t have the right not to be unfairly dismissed. If your depression meets the definition of disability under the Equality Act 2010, you’d be in a stronger position, as the employer has to make reasonable adjustments.The definition requires the condition to have a substantial long term adverse effect on your ability to carry out normal day to day activities and the test involves looking at what the adverse effect would be if no medication was taken.

There’s some decent guidance on the ACAS site - if you google ACAS disability you’ll find it. Other decent sites are mind.org.uk , equalityhumanrights.com and worksmart.org.uk .

Good luck...

 

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5 hours ago, Huddersfield said:

Just a quick note as rushing off, but in England (& I suspect Scotland but don’t know for sure) the Equalities Act duties start with recruitment & apply to the individual person throughout, so the probation period is irrelevant in that context. Doesn’t mean they can’t get rid but 100% means they have to do it properly & that statement isn’t properly from anything I was ever taught  

Ive done a lot of this stuff in my time but obviously in England. 

Employment law is reserved so the situation in Scotland will be the same.

Good luck CS

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So, still waiting on getting a response from the enquiries I've made, I guess with some places having today as a holiday, that's to be expected.

Anyway, I've ended up with an interview elsewhere.

Not sure how best to answer if last employment is brought up though. Any advice?

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16 minutes ago, Cove_Sheep said:

So, still waiting on getting a response from the enquiries I've made, I guess with some places having today as a holiday, that's to be expected.

Anyway, I've ended up with an interview elsewhere.

Not sure how best to answer if last employment is brought up though. Any advice?

I'd personally just keep it bland - it's at your discretion how much you choose to disclose (or not) about your health generally. Only you know how you feel/are likely to feel longer-term, & if you might need extra support.

First of all, I'd check out the new folk's website; see if they have any Charter Marks around mindful workplaces, positive about disability, etc. That would prompt you perhaps to be more open. Otherwise, I'd say something like "following a period of ill health, from which I am recovered/feeling much better, I felt that a change would benefit me..."; anything like that which avoids lying but acknowledges you've had some difficulty. You then have time to prepare yourself to talk it through with them in a more controlled environment, & whilst you are trying to show your general competence at the same time.

I looked back over your original post though. The quote from them about part-time working is truly outrageous. Even if they can't accommodate it, never in a month of Sunday's would I have worded a letter that way. They are legally obliged to consider it at least, & really should be outlining to you why they can't, which honest is easier said than done. A slightly watered down "f**k off" is not really what the Equalities Act is looking for. I'd start to look into unlawful dismissal on the grounds of discrimination if I were you (assuming your employment has ended); maybe constructive dismissal if not. A solicitor's letter will bring them to talk to you about references, etc. I'd imagine & maybe more, especially if you find you're struggling to get work at any point.

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12 hours ago, Huddersfield said:

I'd personally just keep it bland - it's at your discretion how much you choose to disclose (or not) about your health generally. Only you know how you feel/are likely to feel longer-term, & if you might need extra support.

First of all, I'd check out the new folk's website; see if they have any Charter Marks around mindful workplaces, positive about disability, etc. That would prompt you perhaps to be more open. Otherwise, I'd say something like "following a period of ill health, from which I am recovered/feeling much better, I felt that a change would benefit me..."; anything like that which avoids lying but acknowledges you've had some difficulty. You then have time to prepare yourself to talk it through with them in a more controlled environment, & whilst you are trying to show your general competence at the same time.

I looked back over your original post though. The quote from them about part-time working is truly outrageous. Even if they can't accommodate it, never in a month of Sunday's would I have worded a letter that way. They are legally obliged to consider it at least, & really should be outlining to you why they can't, which honest is easier said than done. A slightly watered down "f**k off" is not really what the Equalities Act is looking for. I'd start to look into unlawful dismissal on the grounds of discrimination if I were you (assuming your employment has ended); maybe constructive dismissal if not. A solicitor's letter will bring them to talk to you about references, etc. I'd imagine & maybe more, especially if you find you're struggling to get work at any point.

I would concur with this up until the last paragraph, in particular "I'd start to look into unlawful dismissal on the grounds of discrimination if I were you (assuming your employment has ended); maybe constructive dismissal if not. A solicitor's letter will bring them to talk to you about references, etc. I'd imagine & maybe more, especially if you find you're struggling to get work at any point."

Each case is different and without knowing the nature of the job, I would suggest avoiding this kind of advice without knowing the full position - the reason for saying this, is it can raise and set unrealistic expectations, cause a lot of unnecessary stress/anxiety, and a negative result can be actually more damaging in the long run. People go through a range of emotions when this kind of thing happens - it is more common than we think - and nothing to be ashamed of/embarrassed about.

Even if you had been in the the job for 23 months, Probation periods usually do not extend beyond 6 months, and if 2/3rd of the way through, suggests 4 months to me, and with the info provided, Constructive Dismissal does not apply here and for Unfair Dismissal on or after 6 April 2012 - the qualifying period is normally 2 years.

That would mean your only avenue is discrimination. The firm has used "We have decided to terminate your employment as you cannot meet the requirements of the position" - if you cannot meet the inherent requirements of the position then this cannot fall under DDA Act. 

Reasonable adjustments under DDA would not apply as using this "inherent requirements of the position" even if challenged would fall flat provided they could demonstrate this. Offering to work part-time etc would not necessarily be unreasonable to refuse depending on the circumstances or nature of the job.

The OP obviously has to get your own professional advice, however a few points to consider from my own experience.

1. You claim the work was drying up initially in your post. Why was this ? Was the company experiencing a bit of a lull or is it possible you were being sidelined ? Be honest with yourself.

2.What was their initial reason for letting you know you were not up to their expectation (do you really feel this is related to your medical situation), or on balance, have they been fair and reasonable, ie. you feel they have followed a process of listening/reviewing/and discussing - even if it's not the result you wanted ?

3. It appears you played a card after they have given you the bad news, and that put's them in a position to ensure they have done their due diligence to avoid a potential claim for discrimination - they don't actually have to give you a reason or go into much detail in dismissal during a probation period even although this would be seen as good practice (and beneficial to them if this went legal/tribunal.) 

Before making a decision, you are under no obligation to divulge to them your medical situation, but given what you have said above, this can cause a great deal of stress and anxiety with little likelihood of success. eg. Reinstatement (Would you want to get back anyway ?) or if it's for money, be prepared for a lengthy process, and you will be expected to demonstrate you have tried applying for jobs to mitigate all losses.

It is fairly obvious (and I say this sympathetically) that they really feel you do not fit what they are looking for,  you may look back in time and realise this has been a blessing is disguise. 

No employer/person wants to bury anyone for not making their grade/expectation/cultural fit - so with a bit of discussion you can walk out with a statement of service from this employer and explain to a a future employer you have this as they don't offer references. 

You can then work on positive strategies for the next interview/prospective employer.

Hope this helps, keep the chin up, and good luck which ever way you go.

Reasons for you last job so quickly ? Google is your friend.

 

 

Edited by HUNTINGMcGREGOR
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