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Offensive Behaviour at Football Act Repealed


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10 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-43405134

Entirely based on the argument that it doesn't do anything to prevent sectarianism. Our laws preventing murder do nothing to prevent murder, so maybe they should be repealed too... :rolleyes:

This isn't an anti sectarianism law, that already existed.

Fantastic news and well done to those who fought so hard for it.

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17 minutes ago, Scotland Ever More said:

This isn't an anti sectarianism law, that already existed.

There's a clear anti-sectarianism section within the act:

Quote

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2012/1/crossheading/offensive-behaviour-at-regulated-football-matches

  • Offensive behaviour at regulated football matches
    • (1) A person commits an offence if, in relation to a regulated football match—
      • (a) the person engages in behaviour of a kind described in subsection (2), and
      • (b) the behaviour—
        • (i) is likely to incite public disorder, or
        • (ii) would be likely to incite public disorder.
    • (2) The behaviour is—
      • (a) expressing hatred of, or stirring up hatred against, a group of persons based on their membership (or presumed membership) of—
        • (i) a religious group,
        • (ii) a social or cultural group with a perceived religious affiliation,
        • (iii) a group defined by reference to a thing mentioned in subsection (4),
      • (b) expressing hatred of, or stirring up hatred against, an individual based on the individual's membership (or presumed membership) of a group mentioned in any of sub-paragraphs (i) to (iii) of paragraph (a),
      • (c) behaviour that is motivated (wholly or partly) by hatred of a group mentioned in any of those sub-paragraphs,
      • (d) behaviour that is threatening, or
      • (e) other behaviour that a reasonable person would be likely to consider offensive.
    • (3) For the purposes of subsection (2)(a) and (b), it is irrelevant whether the hatred is also based (to any extent) on any other factor.
    • (4) The things referred to in subsection (2)(a)(iii) are—
      • (a) colour,
      • (b) race,
      • (c) nationality (including citizenship),
      • (d) ethnic or national origins,
      • (e) sexual orientation,
      • (f) transgender identity,
      • (g) disability.
    • (5) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b)(ii), behaviour would be likely to incite public disorder if public disorder would be likely to occur but for the fact that—
      • (a) measures are in place to prevent public disorder, or
      • (b) persons likely to be incited to public disorder are not present or are not present in sufficient numbers.
    • (6) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) is liable—
      • (a) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years, or to a fine, or to both, or
      • (b) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or to both.

I can understand that it's been poorly implemented and the police have been heavy handed in a number of situations, but that's not down to the legislation. I can't see anything changing as a result of the repeal of the act, other than people are going to be able to get away with their actions more easily. 

Edited by Clyde1998
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I’ve noticed that Celtic fans and fans group have been far more vociferous on this than Rangers, which does tie in with the theory that it was “Celtic minded” folk that pushed for it, but didn’t like it when they realised it was going to apply to them too....

Although I feel it was completely unfair that as a football fan I could be more severely punished than a non football fan for misbehaving.... 

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2 hours ago, sbcmfc said:

I’ve noticed that Celtic fans and fans group have been far more vociferous on this than Rangers, which does tie in with the theory that it was “Celtic minded” folk that pushed for it, but didn’t like it when they realised it was going to apply to them too....

Although I feel it was completely unfair that as a football fan I could be more severely punished than a non football fan for misbehaving.... 

It never bothered me, in fact I barely knew this law existed, probably because I’ve no intention of misbehaving at a football match.

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3 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

It never bothered me, in fact I barely knew this law existed, probably because I’ve no intention of misbehaving at a football match.

 

41 minutes ago, Pool Q said:

On the news last night I heard one of the campaigners against the Act saying its repeal would make it safer for everyone to go to football. How so?

Do you guys go to Away games?

I’m guessing it makes it safer to go to games without the fear of being treated far more harshly than a member of the public just because you’re attending a football match.

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Great news. A discriminatory piece of legislation, that should never have got near being law. 

How anyone can think it acceptable to have a different law applying only to football fans is beyond me. 

There's already laws in place that can tackle offensive behaviour, not just at football but anywhere. The police should be using these. Did this legislation stop the Rangers song book at St Johnstone a few weeks back? Or offensive behaviour before the Old Firm game last week? Nope. It did fuck all. So how about the SNP and their fanboys stop attacking folk who disagree with discriminatory legislation and get their party to make the police do their job and enforce the law? 

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8 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Great news. A discriminatory piece of legislation, that should never have got near being law. 

How anyone can think it acceptable to have a different law applying only to football fans is beyond me. 

There's already laws in place that can tackle offensive behaviour, not just at football but anywhere. The police should be using these. Did this legislation stop the Rangers song book at St Johnstone a few weeks back? Or offensive behaviour before the Old Firm game last week? Nope. It did fuck all. So how about the SNP and their fanboys stop attacking folk who disagree with discriminatory legislation and get their party to make the police do their job and enforce the law? 

Spot on. 

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7 hours ago, sbcmfc said:

I’ve noticed that Celtic fans and fans group have been far more vociferous on this than Rangers, which does tie in with the theory that it was “Celtic minded” folk that pushed for it, but didn’t like it when they realised it was going to apply to them too....

Although I feel it was completely unfair that as a football fan I could be more severely punished than a non football fan for misbehaving.... 

Exactly. Celtic wanted this law but then ran greetin to the press when they realised their fans were in the firing line. Stupid decision to repeal this law, would have been much better fixing the faults in it. Now we just have the bigots on both sides having carte Blanche to do what they want, although I agree that the police/SFA spfl did sod all with the law anyway

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13 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Now we just have the bigots on both sides having carte Blanche to do what they want, 

Complete rubbish. There's already laws in place that can tackle sectarian/offensive behaviour at football. The polis just don't want to use them. 

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1 hour ago, sbcmfc said:

 

Do you guys go to Away games?

I’m guessing it makes it safer to go to games without the fear of being treated far more harshly than a member of the public just because you’re attending a football match.

Yes. I’m no defender of the Act, it was a badly drafted and unnecessary piece of legislation. But the suggestion it’s repeal makes it safer to go to matches is irrelevant and foolish. I travelled through to the recent cup game in Motherwell, long day, train there and back, beers before and after the game in the town. Can’t think of a single thing in that whole day the Act, or it’s repeal, would impact in any way, 

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8 hours ago, sbcmfc said:

I’ve noticed that Celtic fans and fans group have been far more vociferous on this than Rangers, which does tie in with the theory that it was “Celtic minded” folk that pushed for it, but didn’t like it when they realised it was going to apply to them too....

Although I feel it was completely unfair that as a football fan I could be more severely punished than a non football fan for misbehaving.... 

Probably because the Celtic fans have organised enough legal and political will to challenge the Act properly. The huns can't even organise a tifo ffs!

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2 hours ago, Parklife said:

Great news. A discriminatory piece of legislation, that should never have got near being law. 

How anyone can think it acceptable to have a different law applying only to football fans is beyond me. 

There's already laws in place that can tackle offensive behaviour, not just at football but anywhere. The police should be using these. Did this legislation stop the Rangers song book at St Johnstone a few weeks back? Or offensive behaviour before the Old Firm game last week? Nope. It did fuck all. So how about the SNP and their fanboys stop attacking folk who disagree with discriminatory legislation and get their party to make the police do their job and enforce the law? 

There are laws applying purely to football fans in England and Wales. The issue is that football an the event where people think they can get away with things such as racist or sectarian chanting more than in general, mainly down to mob mentality. Tougher sentences to discourage people from engaging in this behaviour isn't unwarranted. Although the way the act was worded doesn't ensure stricter penalties, just allows them. Repealing the act will only make those who are willing to engage in certain behaviour more willing to do so, as the penalties will be less severe.

Surely if the legislation when in force isn't preventing the type of problems that it was designed to prevent, then surely that's nothing to do with the act and everything to do with policing and their tactics. Repealing the act, if the police aren't doing anything, will do nothing to change the situation - meaning that the act wasn't actually doing anything to most people in the first place, making some of the criticism against it unwarranted.

Sure, there are faults in the legislation and its implementation, particularly that the legislation was vague in several areas - allowing certain actions come under scrutiny when the shouldn't - but the overall premise of the act was fine, IMO.

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34 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

There are laws applying purely to football fans in England and Wales. The issue is that football an the event where people think they can get away with things such as racist or sectarian chanting more than in general, mainly down to mob mentality.

There are already laws with which to arrest and prosecute people behaving in these manners. Why is calling someone a "fenian bastard" for example, worse at football than it is down tesco on a tuesday, or at a rugby match? It's not, however yet again a group of people want to discriminate against and stigmatise football fans, for their own political gain. 

34 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

Surely if the legislation when in force isn't preventing the type of problems that it was designed to prevent, then surely that's nothing to do with the act and everything to do with policing and their tactics. Repealing the act, if the police aren't doing anything, will do nothing to change the situation - meaning that the act wasn't actually doing anything to most people in the first place, making some of the criticism against it unwarranted.

So your argument here is "the act might be a lot of useless shite but lets just leave it anyway"? Nah, i'm all for removing discriminatory and unfair legislation. 

34 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

Sure, there are faults in the legislation and its implementation, particularly that the legislation was vague in several areas - allowing certain actions come under scrutiny when the shouldn't - but the overall premise of the act was fine, IMO.

An unworkable and well-intentioned premise it may have been. It's a horrible piece of legislation though and i'm glad it's being repealed. 

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Guest BlueGaz
40 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

There are laws applying purely to football fans in England and Wales. The issue is that football an the event where people think they can get away with things such as racist or sectarian chanting more than in general, mainly down to mob mentality. Tougher sentences to discourage people from engaging in this behaviour isn't unwarranted. Although the way the act was worded doesn't ensure stricter penalties, just allows them. Repealing the act will only make those who are willing to engage in certain behaviour more willing to do so, as the penalties will be less severe.

Surely if the legislation when in force isn't preventing the type of problems that it was designed to prevent, then surely that's nothing to do with the act and everything to do with policing and their tactics. Repealing the act, if the police aren't doing anything, will do nothing to change the situation - meaning that the act wasn't actually doing anything to most people in the first place, making some of the criticism against it unwarranted.

Sure, there are faults in the legislation and its implementation, particularly that the legislation was vague in several areas - allowing certain actions come under scrutiny when the shouldn't - but the overall premise of the act was fine, IMO.

We need one, well written law (or set of) for society in general, not one ok and one shite written just for the punters at football.  But regardless of that, the main issue is the laws being enforced.  Lift those that break the rules, or ban as necessary if too many at a game to lift.  

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Hope they do with the alcohol ban on supporters buses next. The time and money tbat the police waste on this is ridiculous.

Makes no sense that you can drink on a public train yet can't on a private bus with your mates. Football supporters are an easy target, it's a shame that some of you just accept it.

Edited by Scotland Ever More
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7 minutes ago, Parklife said:

There are already laws with which to arrest and prosecute people behaving in these manners. Why is calling someone a "fenian bastard" for example, worse at football than it is down tesco on a tuesday, or at a rugby match? It's not, however yet again a group of people want to discriminate against and stigmatise football fans, for their own political gain.

I'm not saying it is worse, although there's more of a chance that you're going to get other people joining in or incite people as a result of doing it at a football game than down the shops. In practice, who's going down the shops to start singing songs about murdering Catholics or whatever? Yet, for some reason, people still think it's okay at a football match - football is still viewed by some as a place that should allow and accept this sort of behaviour; people don't think that about going to the shops or a rugby game. That, to me, is why it's right that the act includes the potential for stricter penalties to make it clear that a football match isn't the place for that behaviour.

15 minutes ago, Parklife said:

So your argument here is "the act might be a lot of useless shite but lets just leave it anyway"? Nah, i'm all for removing discriminatory and unfair legislation. 

I don't think the act is useless. I think there should've been amendments made to it, rather than it being repealed. People have been blaming the act for the heavy handed actions of the police in some situations. I think those people may get a shock when they realise it was nothing to do with the act.

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19 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

I'm not saying it is worse, although there's more of a chance that you're going to get other people joining in or incite people as a result of doing it at a football game than down the shops.

Irrelevant. You seem to be advocating discrimination.

19 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

In practice, who's going down the shops to start singing songs about murdering Catholics or whatever? Yet, for some reason, people still think it's okay at a football match

So let's make the police use their powers and stop folk who think it's acceptable. Not make up some new laws that aren't required and discriminate against folk based on which sport they like. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Sporrsound was an absolute hoot last night, its time to send Chick young to a retirement home.

Heard that. Dearie me, he compared the offensive singing at an Arbroath v Montrose game to that at an Old Firm derby!

 

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