phart Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 hours ago, mariokempes56 said: They said they "confirm the UK findings" . Unless anyone has seen the non-public section of the report it does not mention Novichok or any other specific type of "chemical". Here's the evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThistleWhistle Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Can't believe it makes specific reference to door handles. Instead of breaking in to his house and applying it to his lavy seat or toothbrush where he'd die inside unseen they KGB shady types decided it was best to stand outside in some form of protective gear looking dodgy ambivalent to the rain and paint it on something accessible to milk men and paperboys as per their crack training protocols. I was numb finishing reading 1984 - I'm scared sh!tless living what feels the genesis of it's reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I think the Russians standing their ground has made everyone nervous. Check this out from SKY news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, phart said: I think the Russians standing their ground has made everyone nervous. Check this out from SKY news. So blatant. They don't even try to hide it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Orraloon said: So blatant. They don't even try to hide it. I'm still not sure that the great British public have got the fairly obvious point he was making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 25 minutes ago, Hertsscot said: I'm still not sure that the great British public have got the fairly obvious point he was making. I'm pretty sure. Pretty sure they haven't, that is. Most folk still just accept most of the state propaganda churned out by the state media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Orraloon said: I'm pretty sure. Pretty sure they haven't, that is. Most folk still just accept most of the state propaganda churned out by the state media. At least back in the 70s and 80s leaflets at the library would give you some advice what to do if WWIII broke out- I remember not being terribly impressed with the hide under your table advice! Most people round me seem more bothered about...well just about anything. Resigned? Impotent? Not bothered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Another spin on the story from RT https://www.rt.com/news/424149-skripal-poisoning-bz-lavrov/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindimoo Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 25 minutes ago, phart said: Another spin on the story from RT https://www.rt.com/news/424149-skripal-poisoning-bz-lavrov/ Does anyone actually still believe it was Russia now? As I've said previously, I'm not sure it happened at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 45 minutes ago, phart said: Another spin on the story from RT https://www.rt.com/news/424149-skripal-poisoning-bz-lavrov/ If it turns out to be BZ it might explain why the Skripals are still alive. But BZ isn't an organophosphate, which is what the so called novichoks are supposed to be. It's hard to see how chemists could confuse the two, unless it was deliberate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 7 hours ago, Mindimoo said: Does anyone actually still believe it was Russia now? As I've said previously, I'm not sure it happened at all. Never believed it was in the first place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 21 hours ago, Orraloon said: If it turns out to be BZ it might explain why the Skripals are still alive. But BZ isn't an organophosphate, which is what the so called novichoks are supposed to be. It's hard to see how chemists could confuse the two, unless it was deliberate. The only problem with that story is that the SwissLab in question state that they never said anything of the sort and reiterate the OPCW statement. A general observation not directed to you but just because people don't trust or believe what the UK government and BBC are saying doesn't mean that the Russian Government and RT aren't spinning a load of bull as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 35 minutes ago, aaid said: The only problem with that story is that the SwissLab in question state that they never said anything of the sort and reiterate the OPCW statement. A general observation not directed to you but just because people don't trust or believe what the UK government and BBC are saying doesn't mean that the Russian Government and RT aren't spinning a load of bull as well. Aye, there is just so much propaganda from all sides that it will be impossible to sort out fact from fiction. I am assuming that the name of the chemical used will be in the secret part of the report. I also assume that the Russian authorities will have a copy of the secret part. I wonder if anybody will ever tell us what the chemical actually is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Orraloon said: Aye, there is just so much propaganda from all sides that it will be impossible to sort out fact from fiction. I am assuming that the name of the chemical used will be in the secret part of the report. I also assume that the Russian authorities will have a copy of the secret part. I wonder if anybody will ever tell us what the chemical actually is? It think there's an awful lot of this that we'll never know. The fact that someone like Johnson has been sacked twice due to lying and that we ended up having disastrous consequences due to the war in Iraq based on 'sexed up' intelligence doesn't exactly help the trust issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, aaid said: The only problem with that story is that the SwissLab in question state that they never said anything of the sort and reiterate the OPCW statement. A general observation not directed to you but just because people don't trust or believe what the UK government and BBC are saying doesn't mean that the Russian Government and RT aren't spinning a load of bull as well. Let's start using quotes. Cause the quote i read said only the OPCW could comment they'll just re-iterate what they said publically. Here's the actual tweet When challenged they said this. Edited April 15, 2018 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Russia has released the full quote they got from the Lab. It's been translated into Russian from Swiss then into English. “Following our analysis, the samples indicate traces of the toxic chemical BZ and its precursor which are second category chemical weapons. BZ is a nerve toxic agent, which temporarily disables a person. The psycho toxic effect is achieved within 30 to 60 minutes after its use and lasts for up to four days. This composition was in operational service in the armies of the US, the UK and other NATO countries. The Soviet Union and Russia neither designed nor stored such chemical agents. Also, the samples indicate the presence of type A-234 nerve agent in its virgin state and also products of its degradation.” http://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/3169545 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Fair play to the coppers, standing there without any protective gear. So close to that door handle too. You’d have thought they would all be dressed like spacemen. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Bristolhibby said: Fair play to the coppers, standing there without any protective gear. So close to that door handle too. You’d have thought they would all be dressed like spacemen. J Sending the rural crime team in as well. They must be looking for sheep dip now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 14 minutes ago, aaid said: Sending the rural crime team in as well. They must be looking for sheep dip now. Funnily enough some sheep dips are organophosphorus compounds (there are other types as well). Some of the Novichoks are also supposed to be organophosphorus compounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 24 minutes ago, Orraloon said: Funnily enough some sheep dips are organophosphorus compounds (there are other types as well). Some of the Novichoks are also supposed to be organophosphorus compounds. You sure know how to ruin a joke. 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Bristolhibby said: Fair play to the coppers, standing there without any protective gear. So close to that door handle too. You’d have thought they would all be dressed like spacemen. J Less than glamorous accommodation, being a double agent doesn't pay as well as I thought! Oh well, I'll put that career move on ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Jim Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Hertsscot said: Less than glamorous accommodation, being a double agent doesn't pay as well as I thought! Oh well, I'll put that career move on ice. You were expecting Pussy Galore anaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 The Russians have published their side of the story. Not read it yet. https://rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6481 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 One of Sergie's cats is still missing. The other cat and the guinea pigs have been incinerated. If I was that missing cat, I would be trying my hardest to stay missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 So, the chemical used might be A234 which is a slight variant of A232. Both of these are fairly simple molecules. They could be made by any reasonably good chemist, of which there are thousands, in the UK alone. The tricky bit would be to do the reaction of the final stages without killing themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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