Jump to content

Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I suppose it depends on what definition of "nerve agent" they are using? Some of the organo-phosphate pesticides developed back in the 40s and 50s could be classed as nerve agents. Just not as potent as the likes of Sarin or VX. From what I can see, I'm not sure that these Novichoks are even classed as nerve agents because, at least officially anyway, we don't know what they are. I'm not sure we will ever find out what chemical was used here?

From a purely non scientific basis I'm wondering if there was no actual attack on the two Russians and they are holed up somewhere, either voluntarily or against their will.  Surprised there has been very little independent witness accounts.  The person that found them for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely if Russia wanted this guy dead, they would just shoot him, 'suicide; him, hit and run etc Why go to this bother, knowing fine well that they would get the blame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, kumnio said:

Surely if Russia wanted this guy dead, they would just shoot him, 'suicide; him, hit and run etc Why go to this bother, knowing fine well that they would get the blame.

Ah, but what about the old double-bluff?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grim Jim said:

Ah, but what about the old double-bluff?

but then if they knew we knew they knew wouldn't they just stab him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I watched an old episode of Columbo earlier tonight.   And then read today's Craig Murray blog on Boris.    A strikingly similar experience.

(I'm not pro/anti-Russian btw, just fed up being treated as a mushroom.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, phart said:

but then if they knew we knew they knew wouldn't they just stab him?

With a knife made in Russia?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Orraloon said:

With a knife made in Russia?

of a type developed by Russia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as much as we shouldn't always trust our own secret police...  for what reason would they fake all of this?  

lizard people?  Even if they did, for some convoluted reason, is it likely be contrary to the UKs interests?

Folk are questioning why Russia would do it?  There's far more credible reasons why they would do it than us.  I think some folk would argue against anything the UK does.  I started the thread because i don't see why we haven't followed convention but some of the theories are madness.  A Falkland's fillip!!?  bit contrived that.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

as much as we shouldn't always trust our own secret police...  for what reason would they fake all of this?  

lizard people?  Even if they did, for some convoluted reason, is it likely be contrary to the UKs interests?

Folk are questioning why Russia would do it?  There's far more credible reasons why they would do it than us.  I think some folk would argue against anything the UK does.  I started the thread because i don't see why we haven't followed convention but some of the theories are madness.  A Falkland's fillip!!?  bit contrived that.

 

 

Has anybody suggested, on this thread, that our  "own secret police" have faked anything. I might have missed it? I thought the discussion was more about what the politicians have been saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

as much as we shouldn't always trust our own secret police...  for what reason would they fake all of this?  

Further Russia propaganda? 

Everything we’ve been told about Russia in terms of Syria, Ukraine and Trump is most likely a load of pish. Don’t get me wrong I don’t think Putin is for one second a good bloke but the anti Russian hysteria is calculated and potentially dangerous. 

Not sure how this story fits in but being skeptical is a fair position to take I reckon. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, aaid said:

Alex Thomson's piece on Channel 4 News last night was interesting - not the same take you'd see on the BBC that's for sure.

https://www.channel4.com/news/eu-offers-uk-support-over-salisbury-poisoning

 

Aye, they are not really giving out much information at all, but just expecting the public to believe them, when they try to tell us it was the Russians. It might well have been the Russians (whichever Russians they happen to be pointing the finger at?) but I'm staying very skeptical until they give out some real evidence. When the information is coming out of the mouths of politicians (like Boris) who constantly tell us blatant lies, I find it kinda hard to believe them. Plenty folk will though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Aye, they are not really giving out much information at all, but just expecting the public to believe them, when they try to tell us it was the Russians. It might well have been the Russians (whichever Russians they happen to be pointing the finger at?) but I'm staying very skeptical until they give out some real evidence. When the information is coming out of the mouths of politicians (like Boris) who constantly tell us blatant lies, I find it kinda hard to believe them. Plenty folk will though.

That's kind of where I am at the moment, to me it's more likely to be Russians - whichever Russians, as you say - but I'd like to have some actual evidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was getting discussed in my work yesterday and not one person doubted what they were being told. I find that almost as dangerous as the poisoning .

Is there any information on Skripals sons death, all i can see is he died last year in St Petersburg from ‘liver failure’ , aged 43 . Could very well be an unfortunate early death but his wife and brother have also died in recent years. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is the push to prosecute by press.

Loads of bullshit being spread about the poison all designed to implicate Russia before any testing.

If everyone is so sure, then get the evidence and then so do something substantial about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

Has anybody suggested, on this thread, that our  "own secret police" have faked anything. I might have missed it? I thought the discussion was more about what the politicians have been saying.

The intelligence community and the politicians unequivocally say Russia is behind the attack.  You either believe it or think they have said this for some other ulterior motive.  

Some people are wanting indisputable evidence of this attack in the public domain before they'll believe anything.  It's not intelligent to believe everything; neither is it healthy to never believe anything.

It's more than likely you're not going to catch the spy in the act is it...what do folk want?  If people are waiting for someone red handed, they'll be waiting a while.  The actual state has to respond while some folk need the whole story laid out like the end of a poirot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

The intelligence community and the politicians unequivocally say Russia is behind the attack.  You either believe it or think they have said this for some other ulterior motive.  

Some people are wanting indisputable evidence of this attack in the public domain before they'll believe anything.  It's not intelligent to believe everything; neither is it healthy to never believe anything.

It's more than likely you're not going to catch the spy in the act is it...what do folk want?  If people are waiting for someone red handed, they'll be waiting a while.  The actual state has to respond while some folk need the whole story laid out like the end of a poirot.

I haven't seen or heard the "intelligence community" say anything. Again, I may have missed it. All I have heard is politicians trying to tell me something without giving any evidence to back it up. I don't expect to get indisputable evidence but some evidence would be a start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

The intelligence community and the politicians unequivocally say Russia is behind the attack.  You either believe it or think they have said this for some other ulterior motive.  

Some people are wanting indisputable evidence of this attack in the public domain before they'll believe anything.  It's not intelligent to believe everything; neither is it healthy to never believe anything.

It's more than likely you're not going to catch the spy in the act is it...what do folk want?  If people are waiting for someone red handed, they'll be waiting a while.  The actual state has to respond while some folk need the whole story laid out like the end of a poirot.

Well, I think Iraq made people a lot more sceptical of taking what the government says at face value.  It doesn't help when you have a proven liar like Boris Johnson delivering the message. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I haven't seen or heard the "intelligence community" say anything. Again, I may have missed it. All I have heard is politicians trying to tell me something without giving any evidence to back it up. I don't expect to get indisputable evidence but some evidence would be a start.

I don't think its customary in this country for the intelligence services to actually say anything.  It usually comes via the Prime Minister.

There's some evidence out there isn't there, alongside clear motive.  It doesn't really matter if GCHQ had Putin recorded delivering the order folk would still say it's a conspiracy.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

I don't think its customary in this country for the intelligence services to actually say anything.  It usually comes via the Prime Minister.

There's some evidence out there isn't there, alongside clear motive.  It doesn't really matter if GCHQ had Putin recorded delivering the order folk would still say it's a conspiracy.

 

 

What evidence ? ALL literally ALL has come from Politicians and then repeated by the press.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, mariokempes56 said:

What evidence ? ALL literally ALL has come from Politicians and then repeated by the press.

I genuinely don't know what you mean.  Are you suggesting the Prime Minister asked The Sun who did it rather than her statement being advised by her intelligence service?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

I don't think its customary in this country for the intelligence services to actually say anything.  It usually comes via the Prime Minister.

 

 

 

But you said this

1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said:

The intelligence community and the politicians unequivocally say Russia is behind the attack.  

How do you know that?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

But you said this

How do you know that?

 

Because i'm making the connection that the Prime Minister is singing from the same hymn sheet as the intelligence service that work for her.  I don't think she just decided at breakfast to play Inspector Clouseau.  Is it your contention her statement is not advised by her own briefing?  Given that GCHQ do not customarily make any statement at all, how else but through politicians do you think they get their message out in an official way?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×