First job for mcleish....

[Texas Pete]

7 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I am only going by what Goram said that he considered himself Scottish (not English then). Did he sound genuine when he told you that?

He did but he wasn’t 100% sober and he would likely say that to a Scotsman. 

He said he always felt Scottish and his dad supported Scotland so he did as well but he liked seeing England win as well, particularly at cricket. 

It’s possible he felt Scottish and English at the same time? Who knows though? 

Both my parents are Scottish and I was born and raised here so I couldn’t possibly know what McTominay or others and his position feel about it. Everyone is different I suppose. 

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, Texas Pete said:

He did but he wasn’t 100% sober and he would likely say that to a Scotsman. 

He said he always felt Scottish and his dad supported Scotland so he did as well but he liked seeing England win as well, particularly at cricket. 

It’s possible he felt Scottish and English at the same time? Who knows though? 

Both my parents are Scottish and I was born and raised here so I couldn’t possibly know what McTominay or others and his position feel about it. Everyone is different I suppose. 

The crux of it is how they are brought up? If the parents are patriotic and impart their passion for their country of birth into their off-spring then it would say the child in that direction as well. If the child is brought up with no real emphasis put on them as to their parent's nationality and they grow up isolated from people with real passion for Scotland then they will grow up learning from school-mates etc and growing to have the same affinity as them.

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

The crux of it is how they are brought up? If the parents are patriotic and impart their passion for their country of birth into their off-spring then it would say the child in that direction as well. If the child is brought up with no real emphasis put on them as to their parent's nationality and they grow up isolated from people with real passion for Scotland then they will grow up learning from school-mates etc and growing to have the same affinity as them.

I think there's a lot of truth in what you say.  When I was a teenager I played with two other lads. All three of us were born in England, two of us had a Scots father, the other had both parents who were Scots. Not one of us would have considered ourselves English and would have told England where to go. I do wonder whether that is still the case.  I know people who are in a similar situation now whose kids consider themselves English.  Okay that's anecdotal, my personal thought is our lack of sporting success contributes, put bluntly we're a bit of a joke now whereas in my day no one could say that about a team with the likes of Dalglish, Jordan, Bremner, McGrain.

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

I think there's a lot of truth in what you say.  When I was a teenager I played with two other lads. All three of us were born in England, two of us had a Scots father, the other had both parents who were Scots. Not one of us would have considered ourselves English and would have told England where to go. I do wonder whether that is still the case.  I know people who are in a similar situation now whose kids consider themselves English.  Okay that's anecdotal, my personal thought is our lack of sporting success contributes, put bluntly we're a bit of a joke now whereas in my day no one could say that about a team with the likes of Dalglish, Jordan, Bremner, McGrain.

It is still the case as I know from experience. I have a brother who lives in England but is a patriotic Scot and has two sons born in England but support Scotland and feel affinity with Scotland. If you move in circles outwith Scottish connections and outside influence is there ie mates who are not Scottish, no Scottish relatives instilling Scottishness in them then it just won't burn - the desire to represent Scotland that is.

[Texas Pete]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

The crux of it is how they are brought up? If the parents are patriotic and impart their passion for their country of birth into their off-spring then it would say the child in that direction as well. If the child is brought up with no real emphasis put on them as to their parent's nationality and they grow up isolated from people with real passion for Scotland then they will grow up learning from school-mates etc and growing to have the same affinity as them.

I don’t disagree with that but what I do disagree with is having a policy of not picking players who don’t come out at 12 years old and profess their love of Scotland (I know you’re not saying that). 

If McTominay turns down the chance to play for us now (like Goram did and probably a few others that went on to be good players for us) should he not be allowed to change his mind later?

I can see both sides of the argument but I don’t think we’re in a position to rule anyone out. 

[borojock]

I went to school in England with Gordon McQueens son, Eddie, and he is an England fan. Could never get over that his dad a scottish international and he supported the English rather than the Scots. 

[Caledonian Craig]

25 minutes ago, borojock said:

I went to school in England with Gordon McQueens son, Eddie, and he is an England fan. Could never get over that his dad a scottish international and he supported the English rather than the Scots. 

To me it is not totally surprising. Gordon McQueen was a kind of gentle giant and I suppose he was the type to more allow his son to choose his own path.

[Orraloon]

6 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

I think the difference with Goram is he always considered himself to be Scottish (sitting on the England U21 bench or not) as he’s told me this himself. Although he could have been talking shite I suppose. 

Hutchison was a bit of a strange one. I think he may have thought of himself as English (to begin with anyway) but wanted to play for Scotland for his Dad. Hard to tell I suppose. The guys mentioned here always gave their all for Scotland and I don’t remember too many people having s go at Goram, McCall, James Morrison etc for joining English unders squads before playing for us.

Souness was always a bellend when it came to letting his players play international football. I’m sure he made McCoist and Johnston and guys like that pretend to be injured when Scotland games came around when he was Rangers manager. 

Seriously?  Are you new around here?

[Texas Pete]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

Seriously?  Are you new around here?

He was maybe a bad example. 

People do have a moan about these things but after a few decent performances it gets forgotten about. 

IIRC some people weren’t happy about Don Hutchison playing for us until he scored against Germany in Bremen then all was forgiven. 

[andyD]

On 2/22/2018 at 3:32 PM, kwhitelaw said:

McTominay is hedging his bets in hope that England come calling

If you go find the actual interview, it seems much more like Mourinho has advised McTominay that he'd be better off wit England than Scotland, but that Mourinho thinks the player and his family are leaning more towards Scotland.

You should probably not throw around speculation that could set folk against a kid without actually finding out if what you're saying is even halfway correct.

[andyD]

On 2/22/2018 at 8:37 AM, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said:

Why is Mourinho specifically saying this in an interview that is nothing to do with Scotland? Why should he think of McLeish when talking about McTominay? I think he's been speaking to McTominay and he's mentioned he wants to play for us, that's why he's said to McLeish to act on it. I also think the 'England is missing' comment means they are going to miss out on him.

It was a man utd tv interview right? in those club channel interviews they often talk about the future of young players. Not like it was a sky sports post match thing.

I don't think it was particularly weird that the subject came up in that arena.

[wanderer]

Reports McLeish will travel to Manchester United training ground in next couple of days to have talks with McTominay, with talk he will also call up John Souttar for his first squad.

[Orraloon]

9 minutes ago, wanderer said:

Reports McLeish will travel to Manchester United training ground in next couple of days to have talks with McTominay, with talk he will also call up John Souttar for his first squad.

Interesting that he is doing it publicly. He might be trying to put the guy on the spot by making him think that if he wants to play for Scotland, it's "now of never"? Then he again he probably already knows what the answer is going to be and it's just a publicity thing? 

[Brummie Hibs]

We already have this young guy winning us the world cup in 5 years time.

If, and it's a  BIG IF, he chooses Scotland, there will be a fair chance he'll be quickly panned by the fans because he's not running rings around Ronaldo and scoring overhead kicks. The next Headless Chicken!

How many of us have actually seen him play? Are people aware of what type of player we would get? Is it what we need? 

[wanderer]

7 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Interesting that he is doing it publicly. He might be trying to put the guy on the spot by making him think that if he wants to play for Scotland, it's "now of never"? Then he again he probably already knows what the answer is going to be and it's just a publicity thing? 

Could very well be, I hope its the latter and does not turn into a Levein and Andy Carroll situation where he does not take no for a answer and spends months chasing him.

[wanderer]

1 minute ago, Brummie Hibs said:

We already have this young guy winning us the world cup in 5 years time.

If, and it's a  BIG IF, he chooses Scotland, there will be a fair chance he'll be quickly panned by the fans because he's not running rings around Ronaldo and scoring overhead kicks. The next Headless Chicken!

How many of us have actually seen him play? Are people aware of what type of player we would get? Is it what we need? 

As said elsewhere, at the minute I am reserving judgement as he could be to Mourinho what Januzaj was to Moyes.

Remains to be seen, but you do not sneak into the Man United first team for domestic and European games if you are not all that good, and Mourinho does not have the greatest record in the universe for bring through youth players at most the clubs he has been at (so if he is getting his praise, there must be something there).

[Brummie Hibs]

Just now, wanderer said:

As said elsewhere, at the minute I am reserving judgement as he could be to Mourinho what Januzaj was to Moyes.

Remains to be seen, but you do not sneak into the Man United first team for domestic and European games if you are not all that good, and Mourinho does not have the greatest record in the universe for bring through youth players at most the clubs he has been at (so if he is getting his praise, there must be something there).

Not questioning that the guy has talent - he is suiting Man Utd's play at the moment. Until I see how McLeish wants to set Scotland up then I'll question whether we urgently need McT or not.

Like you have already alluded too, if he urgently wanted to play international football then he would have pinned his colours to the mast by now. That's not necessarily to say that he won't ever play for Scotland (or England for that matter), but I don't think he desperately need to clamber for McT now. All it'll do is force his hand into making a rash decision one way or the other.

I'd say let's wait until the end of the season and those friendlies.

 

[wanderer]

1 minute ago, Brummie Hibs said:

Not questioning that the guy has talent - he is suiting Man Utd's play at the moment. Until I see how McLeish wants to set Scotland up then I'll question whether we urgently need McT or not.

Like you have already alluded too, if he urgently wanted to play international football then he would have pinned his colours to the mast by now. That's not necessarily to say that he won't ever play for Scotland (or England for that matter), but I don't think he desperately need to clamber for McT now. All it'll do is force his hand into making a rash decision one way or the other.

I'd say let's wait until the end of the season and those friendlies.

 

Agree.

If he was a central defender and able to get a run of games playing for Man United, I think it would be different, but he is in a position we are not exactly stuck/short on players with at this minute in time (is he being rushed/forced into the team before Mcleish plans because of how good he is or the fact he has got some pretty healthy amount of game time with Man United).

McLeish is not one to leave every stone unturned for possible players to call up (he discovered Morrison and seem to recall he did spend a bit of time trying to convince Gabby Agbonlahor to join up with us) so maybe he is in his possible plans.

[er yir macaroon]

40 minutes ago, Brummie Hibs said:

Not questioning that the guy has talent - he is suiting Man Utd's play at the moment. Until I see how McLeish wants to set Scotland up then I'll question whether we urgently need McT or not.

Like you have already alluded too, if he urgently wanted to play international football then he would have pinned his colours to the mast by now. That's not necessarily to say that he won't ever play for Scotland (or England for that matter), but I don't think he desperately need to clamber for McT now. All it'll do is force his hand into making a rash decision one way or the other.

I'd say let's wait until the end of the season and those friendlies.

 

There are friendlies next month. If we don’t call him up it would be a mistake.

[er yir macaroon]

56 minutes ago, Brummie Hibs said:

We already have this young guy winning us the world cup in 5 years time.

If, and it's a  BIG IF, he chooses Scotland, there will be a fair chance he'll be quickly panned by the fans because he's not running rings around Ronaldo and scoring overhead kicks. The next Headless Chicken!

How many of us have actually seen him play? Are people aware of what type of player we would get? Is it what we need? 

I’d imagine just about everyone has seen him play.

[Scotsdeutsch]

Having watched him playing;he’s decent enough. Not a world beater & looks like another Darren fletcher to be honest. His shooting in particular is very wayward. Not fussed if he picks England; if Scotland never had Darren fletcher guess what nothing much of any relevance happened..we still didn’t qualify for anything. 

[SkyBlueScot]

Listening to James Richardson's Totally Football podcast today and one of the contributors spoke extremely highly of McTominay's performance against Chelsea.

[Texas Pete]

Is anyone else fed up hearing about this guy? If he ends up playing for us, great. If not, who cares. 

You’d think the guy was going to be the next Messi or something. 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Texas Pete

[Ormond]

32 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Is anyone else fed up hearing about this guy? If he ends up playing for us, great. If not, who cares. 

You’d think the guy was going to be the next Messi or something. 

My take on it too.

[Diamond Scot]

9 hours ago, Scotsdeutsch said:

Having watched him playing;he’s decent enough. Not a world beater & looks like another Darren fletcher to be honest. His shooting in particular is very wayward. Not fussed if he picks England; if Scotland never had Darren fletcher guess what nothing much of any relevance happened..we still didn’t qualify for anything. 

Fletcher has been our best and most decorated player in the past 20 years. Our only player to earn a place in a world class side in that time. If we had even a couple more player of Fletchers ability during that period then we would have made several finals.

 

Any player capable of holding down a long term place for a top 4 side in any of the big leagues is a big asset for a country our size.