Question Time Tonight

[Alibi]

Actually, regarding what McWhirther is quoted as saying, why would there be a hard border with England after indy?  Initially there needn't be. If we joined EFTA there needn't be.  It's only at the point where we joined the EU that a hard border might arise.  now, i'm pro-EU myself, but EFTA would be a reasonable half way house that gets us the important bits like freedom of movement and a customs union.  I wonder why McWhirther hasn't considered that.  Is it just that he's being paid to tell folk there's no solution other than to destroy Scotland by trapping it forever in a grossly abusive relationship?

[Alibi]

1 minute ago, aaid said:

There *will not* be a border for travel between Scotland and England, anyone who suggests that there will be is either a fool or a liar.  
 

There *will* be a need to manage the trade of goods between Scotland and England, you can call it a border if you want but the likelihood is that will all be done well away from any physical border points and that can be as stress-free or as stressful as the political will is.  Again anyone who suggests otherwise is either a fool or a liar. 

There will be a border (there is at the moment) but the nature of the border, as you say, is a matter for negotiation.  I think EFTA might be the pragmatic solution but I am not a lawyer.  they fould a solution for NI, so why not for Scotland?

[aaid]

1 minute ago, Alibi said:

 they fould a solution for NI, so why not for Scotland?

How’s that working out?

[Alibi]

8 minutes ago, aaid said:

How’s that working out?

It's a mess, but that's because it was set up to fail.  OK, maybe "they found a solution" wasn't the right phrase!  however despite the unarguable fact that it's England's fault that there's a problem with borders with the EU, if we can find a way to work round their stupidity, why not?  EFTA might be the way round it and maybe McWhirther should consider that rather than just siding with England by default.  I actually believe the SNP should consider EFTA as a possibility even if they would prefer the EU.  However maybe they don't have the imagination to do that, or maybe some within the SNP would prefer to make indy as difficult as possible, as almost seems to be the case over the last 8 years.

[aaid]

10 minutes ago, Alibi said:

It's a mess, but that's because it was set up to fail.  OK, maybe "they found a solution" wasn't the right phrase!  however despite the unarguable fact that it's England's fault that there's a problem with borders with the EU, if we can find a way to work round their stupidity, why not?  EFTA might be the way round it and maybe McWhirther should consider that rather than just siding with England by default.  I actually believe the SNP should consider EFTA as a possibility even if they would prefer the EU.  However maybe they don't have the imagination to do that, or maybe some within the SNP would prefer to make indy as difficult as possible, as almost seems to be the case over the last 8 years.

If they could find a solution to Ireland then it could be easily copied and pasted for Scotland.    Ireland however is 100 times more complicated and I think that the GFA is completely incompatible with a hard Brexit as the structures of the SM/CU underpin a lot of it.

I’m not sure where EFTA fits in here though.  I’m not sure whether the UK has a trade agreement in place with EFTA, whether they’ve done bilateral agreements with the member nations or whether they’ve just rolled over the EU agreement, I suspect if any, the latter is more likely. 
 

A quick Google says there is a trade agreement in place, signed last year, I can only assume it’s a rollover of the previous EU deal.

Of course, the issues in NI with the protocol have essentially nothing to do with trade and everything to do with politics. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by aaid

[stocky]

The border issue is not a major obstacle imo.

Look at border from Ireland to Wales/ UK. Why does no-one study that.

Works fine , that's the biggest trade and human route from Ireland to england.

Ireland is part of a free movement of people/ goods that preseedes eu membership. 

The Dover shite just now could be easily sorted 

But they are both playing'my Willie is bigger than yours'

However it's the UK hard insistence and ni protocol non appliance that's causing the hard ball from the eu Quite rightly imo.

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by stocky

[daviebee]

5 hours ago, aaid said:

There *will not* be a border for travel between Scotland and England, anyone who suggests that there will be is either a fool or a liar.  
 

There *will* be a need to manage the trade of goods between Scotland and England, you can call it a border if you want but the likelihood is that will all be done well away from any physical border points and that can be as stress-free or as stressful as the political will is.  Again anyone who suggests otherwise is either a fool or a liar. 

Aye, but... remember the "There will be a currency union" from indyref1, followed by a simple "No there won't" from the Better Together side even though they knew there likely would be?  Doesn't matter what's true as they'll say absolutely anything to put folk off voting Yes and this is a biggie - stopping you from going to see your granny in Carlisle.

We'll get the exact same thing again, no matter the reality on the ground and we'd better be 100% prepared for it.

As for the second point... trade is a 2-way process, something that's conveniently forgotten by the unionist side when putting out their scare stories.  It should be rammed down their throats every time they come out with it that they need to sell the idea of a trade war to the businesses in England sending goods up here first.  Evidence so far appears to be that we'll just meekly go on the defensive again.

[Toepoke]

How does the border between Norway and Sweden work? One's in the EU and one isn't?

 

[phart]

7 hours ago, Toepoke said:

How does the border between Norway and Sweden work? One's in the EU and one isn't?

 

 

Seems it works very well.

https://www.lifeinnorway.net/norway-sweden-border/

Edited July 26, 2022 by phart

[Caledonian Craig]

On 7/25/2022 at 4:58 PM, daviebee said:

Aye, but... remember the "There will be a currency union" from indyref1, followed by a simple "No there won't" from the Better Together side even though they knew there likely would be?  Doesn't matter what's true as they'll say absolutely anything to put folk off voting Yes and this is a biggie - stopping you from going to see your granny in Carlisle.

We'll get the exact same thing again, no matter the reality on the ground and we'd better be 100% prepared for it.

As for the second point... trade is a 2-way process, something that's conveniently forgotten by the unionist side when putting out their scare stories.  It should be rammed down their throats every time they come out with it that they need to sell the idea of a trade war to the businesses in England sending goods up here first.  Evidence so far appears to be that we'll just meekly go on the defensive again.

I agree with much of this.

The scaremongering was Uber successful by Better Together in 2014. They came out with stuff like you cannot use the pound and then months later the Governor of the Bank of England came out and said Scotland using the pound would have been perfectly feasible. We also had various shops like Morrison and Asda saying they'd pull out of Scotland if a Yes vote came around. Sounded much like the banks who claimed they'd pull out of the UK should Brexit happen. It happened and the banks are still here as would Morrisons and Asda would have been had we voted Yes.

Also totally agree with all this crap that the rest of the UK would not trade with an independent Scotland. Really? So where would they import their beef from given than Scottish Beef takes up 75% of UK sales. Also, especially with a drought in England where they'd get their water from. Scotland has much that the rest of the UK needs so they'd sign trade deals - guaranteed.

And as you say we, the Yes movement, need to be far stronger when bullying threats are made against us. Stand tall and refute the claims instead of a timmering wee beastie.

 

[Alibi]

Regarding water, they're already planning to steal it.  Been a few folk in the media discussing a water grid to take water from Scotland and take it to parched areas in England.  No problem with selling them our excess rainfall, but the operative word is selling, and it should be done for the benefit of Scotland as a whole.

[TDYER63]

39 minutes ago, Alibi said:

Regarding water, they're already planning to steal it.  Been a few folk in the media discussing a water grid to take water from Scotland and take it to parched areas in England.  No problem with selling them our excess rainfall, but the operative word is selling, and it should be done for the benefit of Scotland as a whole.

I think that could be the thing that finally makes voters sit up an notice. Nothing says ‘raping our natural resources’ like taking the water from under our noses. 

[aaid]

I suggested a few years back that one of the reasons why the UKG was so keen to keep a hold of Scotland was because of access to water and got laughed at.  There’s more fresh water in Loch Ness than in the whole of England’s lakes, rivers and reservoirs.

[Squirrelhumper]

On 8/3/2022 at 12:04 PM, TDYER63 said:

I think that could be the thing that finally makes voters sit up an notice. Nothing says ‘raping our natural resources’ like taking the water from under our noses. 

TBF they never bothered their arse when they were stealing the oil or fishing waters. 

[TDYER63]

2 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

TBF they never bothered their arse when they were stealing the oil or fishing waters. 

Fishing is not something that is on the forefront of most peoples minds. Oil will have played a part in swaying some people but we keep getting told its running out . 
Water is a life essential. I cannot see people giving that up without a fight . 

[Malcolm]

In a few months independence is going to be the last thing on peoples minds.  Financial survival through the winter and next year will be everything.

im already seeing plans for thousands to be laid off in just one organisation.  Look at your own organisations….  It’s going to be carnage.  Widespread housing defaults, housing crash, mass unemployment, fuel and food poverty, suicide and crime through the roof, extreme poverty…. There will be no money.

 

[Ally Bongo]

4 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

In a few months independence is going to be the last thing on peoples minds.  Financial survival through the winter and next year will be everything.

 

 

Nonsense

Independence for an energy and water rich Scotland with potential radical policies is the alternative to the Westminster curruption that has led us here 

[Caledonian Craig]

7 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

In a few months independence is going to be the last thing on peoples minds.  Financial survival through the winter and next year will be everything.

im already seeing plans for thousands to be laid off in just one organisation.  Look at your own organisations….  It’s going to be carnage.  Widespread housing defaults, housing crash, mass unemployment, fuel and food poverty, suicide and crime through the roof, extreme poverty…. There will be no money.

 

And all of this within a dying union. Speaks volumes.

[Malcolm]

Liz truss speaking a lot of sense.  Doctors all retiring early due to the ridiculous pension lifetime allowance tax.  You should be allowed to save an unlimited amount of money i to your pension without lunatic lifetime allowance task.

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

Liz truss speaking a lot of sense.

Away and fuck off Malcolm you total arsepiece

[hampden_loon2878]

2 hours ago, Malcolm said:

In a few months independence is going to be the last thing on peoples minds.  Financial survival through the winter and next year will be everything.

im already seeing plans for thousands to be laid off in just one organisation.  Look at your own organisations….  It’s going to be carnage.  Widespread housing defaults, housing crash, mass unemployment, fuel and food poverty, suicide and crime through the roof, extreme poverty…. There will be no money.

 

Worked correctly and it would be a game changer for independence,, however sturgeon being not a very poor politician has boxed herself in regardingboul production,,, I will add also that I have never,ever seen the drilling sector ramp up so quickly,, the companies can get staff and are taking folk on with zero experience. 

[Malcolm]

22 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Worked correctly and it would be a game changer for independence,, however sturgeon being not a very poor politician has boxed herself in regardingboul production,,, I will add also that I have never,ever seen the drilling sector ramp up so quickly,, the companies can get staff and are taking folk on with zero experience. 

we have lots of resource available, just need to extract, exploit and store it

 

33 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Away and fuck off Malcolm you total arsepiece

Behave yourself.  No need to act like an arsehole just because you don’t agree with the likely next prime minister of the United Kingdom.

[Ally Bongo]

12 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

 

 

Behave yourself.  No need to act like an arsehole just because you don’t agree with the likely next prime minister of the United Kingdom.

Truss is a moron

Not just that - she is a lying dangerous moron

If she wasnt such a great asset for Scottish Independence i would be worried that a total laughing stock like her was going to be given the keys to the castle

It cannot be understated of what a fucking idiot she is and if she appears to talk sense to cunts that lap that shite up then shame on them

[Malcolm]

4 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Truss is a moron

Not just that - she is a lying dangerous moron

If she wasnt such a great asset for Scottish Independence i would be worried that a total laughing stock like her was going to be given the keys to the castle

It cannot be understated of what a fucking idiot she is and if she appears to talk sense to cunts that lap that shite up then shame on them

can you be more specific about which policies you disagree with?  I heard a lot I liked tonight.

[Ally Bongo]

16 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

can you be more specific about which policies you disagree with?  I heard a lot I liked tonight.

Did you like the policy that was going to result in a massive pay cut for over 5 million people including nurses, police officers and armed forces outside of London ?

You know the one she had to backtrack on a couple of days ago and bin then claim she was misrepresented ?

She is the fucking village idiot and anything she is saying is 100% fuck all to do with her and will never be implemented  

A poundshop Johnson and Trump playbook bad actress