Question Time Tonight

[ParisInAKilt]

9 minutes ago, Nobby said:

Both sides have said some choice things, for labour to claim the moral high ground is a bit rich 😉   People are pissed at MPs because they are all a bunch of self serving twats . They are getting abuse because they have not delivered on what people voted for. Picture this board three years after a majority have voted for independence and MPs are now  trying to revoke the result of the referendum !!!

 

Exactly.

3 years to leave a supposedly economic union. It shouldn’t be this difficult or damaging.

[Lairdyfaeinverclyde]

Think people are forgetting all this shit going on now is just the start, the withdrawal from the EU. If they can't agree on this what fuckin chance have they got when it comes to the rest of the crap to be negotiated.

[Dave78]

1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Exactly.

3 years to leave a supposedly economic union. It shouldn’t be this difficult or damaging.

The main sticking point has been the UK's international peace treaty commitments with regards to its border in Ireland.

There is no comparable problem for an indy Scotland, so Nobby is comparing apples and oranges.

[macy37]

3 hours ago, Nobby said:

I would disagree, Corbyn and McDonnell are much scarier. And who Brought Jo Cox's name into the debate it wasn't the tories. I watched the whole debate.  It was labour complaining that the use of "Surrender Bill" meant they were getting death threats. Our democracy is not under threat from the tories. Perhaps the labour party and SNP should go for a general election and stop this raping of our democarcy !! 

Spot on.

[Orraloon]

3 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Exactly.

3 years to leave a supposedly economic union. It shouldn’t be this difficult or damaging.

It isn't difficult to leave. Never has been. Invoke article 50, then leave two years later. Easy. It's the Tories who have made it difficult. Nobody else.

[Caledonian Craig]

8 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

It isn't difficult to leave. Never has been. Invoke article 50, then leave two years later. Easy. It's the Tories who have made it difficult. Nobody else.

Spot on.

The Tories are deeply devided. You have the ERG within in wanting a hard no deal Brexit, you have MPs favouring a deal of sorts and you have MPs wanting to remain. You have MPs who back Boris and others who do not. All within the Tory party.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Caledonian Craig

[Nobby]

15 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

It isn't difficult to leave. Never has been. Invoke article 50, then leave two years later. Easy. It's the Tories who have made it difficult. Nobody else.

You would think so wouldn't you . I must've imagined Labour playing party politics as half of them wanted to leave and the other half didnt.  For the record I voted remain, to say however that's is just the Tories who have made it difficult to leave is laughable. Currently the labour position is, 1. Win a general election when they think they have a chance (not yet though 😉 ), 2. Go to Brussels and negotiate a super duper leave deal. 3. come back and Labour  MPs campaign for which one takes their fancy, 4. Let the electorate decide in another vote.  

We had the vote, remain lost.  When my old man who has been a trade unionist labour supporter all his life, is talking about voting tory you know the world is a fecked up place !!   

[TDYER63]

4 hours ago, Nobby said:

Both sides have said some choice things, for labour to claim the moral high ground is a bit rich 😉   People are pissed at MPs because they are all a bunch of self serving twats . They are getting abuse because they have not delivered on what people voted for. Picture this board three years after a majority have voted for independence and MPs are now  trying to revoke the result of the referendum !!!

 

You are right, both sides have been guilty . However any decent PM would have responded saying Jo Cox’s death was a tragedy,  agreed that politicians have a duty to act in a responsible manner and to ensure their words are not inciting  violence. His actual response was that of a selfish oaf.  

Had an extreme Indy supporter murdered a unionist MP days before the Scottish  referendum  I doubt we would have been allowed to proceed with it, or at the very least it would have been pointless having it. The outrage from Unionists would have been off the scale and every nationalist branded a potential violent psychopath.  .  

So I doubt the scenario you describe would be applicable 😉

[Nobby]

29 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

You are right, both sides have been guilty . However any decent PM would have responded saying Jo Cox’s death was a tragedy,  agreed that politicians have a duty to act in a responsible manner and to ensure their words are not inciting  violence. His actual response was that of a selfish oaf.  

Had an extreme Indy supporter murdered a unionist MP days before the Scottish  referendum  I doubt we would have been allowed to proceed with it, or at the very least it would have been pointless having it. The outrage from Unionists would have been off the scale and every nationalist branded a potential violent psychopath.  .  

So I doubt the scenario you describe would be applicable 😉

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not proposing any scenario other than a yes independence vote potentially being overuled. Which is a plausible scenario given the shite fest that the leave EU vote has become.  I suspect in the event of a yes vote referendum a very similar scenario will play out . The outrage from yes voters would be palpable and rightly so. So why should people who voted leave feel any different ?

Parliament was a bear pit on Tuesday and I'm certain Johnson has rightly called her death a tragedy when it happened, but sorry he didn't bring it up in that debate. Jo Cox's constituency voted leave by  quite a margin so why is what he said so wrong ? They are all as bad as one another. Using this as a stick to beat him is just the pot having a go at the kettle. 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Nobby

[Dave78]

50 minutes ago, Nobby said:

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not proposing any scenario other than a yes independence vote potentially being overuled. Which is a plausible scenario given the shite fest that the leave EU vote has become.  I suspect in the event of a yes vote referendum a very similar scenario will play out . The outrage from yes voters would be palpable and rightly so. So why should people who voted leave feel any different ?

Parliament was a bear pit on Tuesday and I'm certain Johnson has rightly called her death a tragedy when it happened, but sorry he didn't bring it up in that debate. Jo Cox's constituency voted leave by  quite a margin so why is what he said so wrong ? They are all as bad as one another. Using this as a stick to beat him is just the pot having a go at the kettle. 

What will divide the ruling SNP government during independence negotiations in the same way that the Irish border and the SM/CU has divided the Tory party?

The idea that the SNP would lose their Holyrood majority because some MSPs defected to unionist parties over, say, the currency or asset/debt plan is a bit ridiculous. The Tory party is stacked full of remainers. There are no unionists on the SNP benches.  

 

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, Nobby said:

You would think so wouldn't you . I must've imagined Labour playing party politics as half of them wanted to leave and the other half didnt.  For the record I voted remain, to say however that's is just the Tories who have made it difficult to leave is laughable. Currently the labour position is, 1. Win a general election when they think they have a chance (not yet though 😉 ), 2. Go to Brussels and negotiate a super duper leave deal. 3. come back and Labour  MPs campaign for which one takes their fancy, 4. Let the electorate decide in another vote.  

We had the vote, remain lost.  When my old man who has been a trade unionist labour supporter all his life, is talking about voting tory you know the world is a fecked up place !!   

When UK voters voted to leave the Labour party were irrelevant. TM decided to have an election and lost the Tory majority. Even then Labour were still irrelevant as she managed to bribe the DUP into supporting her. They are only slightly relevant now because of Boris sacking his own MPs. The Tories have manufactured this mess all by themselves. Labour are a shambles as well, but for most of this process they have been an irrelevant shambles.

 

 

[Nobby]

18 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

What will divide the ruling SNP government during independence negotiations in the same way that the Irish border and the SM/CU has divided the Tory party?

The idea that the SNP would lose their Holyrood majority because some MSPs defected to unionist parties over, say, the currency or asset/debt plan is a bit ridiculous. The Tory party is stacked full of remainers. There are no unionists on the SNP benches.  

 

I never said the snp would be divided. The country could well be though, unless it’s a thumping majority for yes. Like I said my old man is thinking of voting Tory ! Strange times !! 

[Dave78]

42 minutes ago, Nobby said:

I never said the snp would be divided. The country could well be though, unless it’s a thumping majority for yes. Like I said my old man is thinking of voting Tory ! Strange times !! 

Well certainly the country will be divided (it already is). But i don't see how that translates to a similar situation to brexit playing out, regardless of the size of the Yes majority.

[Mark frae Crieff]

10 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Exactly.

3 years to leave a supposedly economic union. It shouldn’t be this difficult or damaging.

If there had been a cross party  set up it might not have been.. 

Remember this would be the easiest negotiations ever etc etc.

Oh and thank feck Gina Millar got that High Court Judgement to ensure a Parliament vote as that wasn;t happening to begin with. 

This has been a set up from day 1 for a hard Brexit so that the real backers of Brexit can make a killing and the side note of not being forced to reveal their secret bank accounts is a wee bonus. 

Through their more desperate plloys to get this to happen it may be that their arses are twitching.. 

 

[Toepoke]

22 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

"If you're still a Conservative voter then I'm sorry but you're the scum of the earth.

I couldn't give a solitary fuck what your views on Brexit are, yesterday's parliamentary shit-show should have sent shivers down the spine any right thinking person.

I've said it before and I'll keep screaming it until I'm hauled into a fucking re-education camp for being politically opposed to our new fascist overlords; Boris is not a clown, and what we're seeing is not chaos.

If you're still under the impression that things aren't going his way then you're both deluded and naive.

He's fucking winning. He's literally Trumping his way to victory. Hard Brexiters and the politically disengaged are seeing snippets of rousing and impassioned speeches, and they love it. Sound familiar?

The stage is being set you see, for the people versus parliament, or the establishment versus the establishment for those of us with eyes, only people are too thick to realise they're backing the fucking establishment.

The Conservative party has changed. Its leader a far-right populist, its moderates purged, its respect for democracy and the rule of law dead. These are bitter times.

Never in living memory have we witnessed such a brazen disregard for the courts, parliament and the people, all under the shameful guise of 'getting us out', fuck the consequences.

Boris Johnson stood at that dispatch box flanked by his snivelling, self-serving cabinet of cunts, like a barbershop quartet of over privileged school bullies baying the opposition.

The Attorney General fog-horned his disdain for an unworthy, dead parliament in his reverberating baritone.

Punisher of the poor, Ian Duncan Smith giggled from the sidelines and added to his glorious leader's petty insults, like an insignificant sidekick begging for attention. Always the cuntsmaid, never the cunt eh?

And Rees-Mogg just sat smirking as if nanny had smuggled him an extra Jaffa cake at supper.

Jo Cox is not a political pawn, yet her name was shamefully banded about for cheap point-scoring.

Her tragic end was brought up as an example of what dangerous rhetoric and words can lead to, but that point was written off as 'humbug' by an indifferent psychopath.

How dare Boris Johnson suggest that delivering Brexit is the best way to honour her memory. How dare he polititicise her at all.

If you think any of this is acceptable then you're as bad as them. You're a despicable cunt and should hang your heads in shame, for you will be culpable for the demise of a democracy spanning centuries."

Out of interest who are you quoting here Ally?

[Dave78]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

Out of interest who are you quoting here Ally?

A guy called Tuckered, off the old facebook... https://www.facebook.com/Tuckered.co.uk/

 

[exile]

There was heated language on both sides but it is the government who has the responsibility to uphold the law. Imagine if the Scottish Govt had been "slapped down" by the Supreme Court and Bute House had said the judgement was a "serious mistake". The Unionist media would be howling that the SNP was threatening the courts or threatening to act outside the law. 

Likewise it is the responsibility of the PM to set the tone in terms of use of language. For the indyref, the Yes movement knew they had to be very careful not to use words like traitor or quisling, and while many indy supporters did, you would not find senior politicians far less the actual leaders of the movement using those words to stoke up antagonism. In fact it was the unionist press and MPs who most often used words like N**is to describe the SNP and independence supporters. Remember Alistair Darling talking of blood and soil nationalism - and he got away with it. Now we have a tinpot Churchill tribute act standing up at the despatch box talking of no surrender, capitulation, vassal state, and so on. About an organisation that we are already in (and send elected reps to - not a foreign dictatorship!) and that has a simple clause to exit from, and with whom we had a 'deal' on the table to leave, and he voted against it! 

And finally. the whole Brexit mess is firmly the Tory party's responsibility. They 're the ones in power! They called the referendum. They set the question. They failed to have a white paper or any plan for what would happen after a Leave vote. They could have gone for a cross-party compromise from the start, not waited until almost 3 years before reaching out to Labour, by which time May's days were numbered. Theresa May insisted on 'red lines' that made the 'deal' unpalatable to the opposition; the Tory party could have supported some of the 'deal' options that they knew the opposition would support. The opposition may be divided and ineffective in some ways, but you can't blame them when they are not the ones in power. You may as well blame the Yes side for the failure of the Vow/Devo Max. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by exile

[vanderark14]

2 hours ago, Dave78 said:

A guy called Tuckered, off the old facebook... https://www.facebook.com/Tuckered.co.uk/

 

Who ever its is, they are right. What we are seeing it beyond belief but people and the media are swallowing it all.

[TDYER63]

20 hours ago, Nobby said:

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not proposing any scenario other than a yes independence vote potentially being overuled. Which is a plausible scenario given the shite fest that the leave EU vote has become.  I suspect in the event of a yes vote referendum a very similar scenario will play out . The outrage from yes voters would be palpable and rightly so. So why should people who voted leave feel any different ?

Parliament was a bear pit on Tuesday and I'm certain Johnson has rightly called her death a tragedy when it happened, but sorry he didn't bring it up in that debate. Jo Cox's constituency voted leave by  quite a margin so why is what he said so wrong ? They are all as bad as one another. Using this as a stick to beat him is just the pot having a go at the kettle. 

I dont recall saying they should. I have some sympathy with Leave voters, I dont agree with their decision but they won the referendum. I have said on here before under no circumstances should we be asking for a second Brexit vote as it will set a precedent. 

Jo Cox’s constituency may have voted leave but Jo Cox didn't. That lady paid the biggest price any human can pay for what they believe in. Johnson showed no respect whatsoever, in that moment his mask slipped to bare who he truly is. 

[exile]

Uh-oh,... 

[aaid]

34 minutes ago, exile said:

Uh-oh,... 

Thanks for the warning. Defo worth avoiding 

[Grim Jim]

BBC found out ages ago, but don't give a shit.

[exile]

"Just watching Question Time. Has the debate become so right-wing that it’s actually nullified Melanie Phillips? #bbcqt"

[Jim Beem]

Bonnie Greer 👌

[ParisInAKilt]

On 9/28/2019 at 12:16 AM, Orraloon said:

It isn't difficult to leave. Never has been. Invoke article 50, then leave two years later. Easy. It's the Tories who have made it difficult. Nobody else.

Almost like they don’t want it to happen ...