Caledonian Craig Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 For things to improve for us it will take the coming together of various factors - not all manager-related either. Obviously, a manager that can get us organised and playing to a system the players are comfortable and confident with which makes us harder to beat. However, we also need 100% commitment to the cause from the players. Players willing to report for international duty carrying niggles and play through the pain barrier. Players not retiring from international duty for lame reasons and will give 100% commitment out on the pitch for the manager and the fans. That has not been the case of late sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: For things to improve for us it will take the coming together of various factors - not all manager-related either. Obviously, a manager that can get us organised and playing to a system the players are comfortable and confident with which makes us harder to beat. However, we also need 100% commitment to the cause from the players. Players willing to report for international duty carrying niggles and play through the pain barrier. Players not retiring from international duty for lame reasons and will give 100% commitment out on the pitch for the manager and the fans. That has not been the case of late sadly. In fairness it’s not really up to a player to decide if he plays for Scotland with a niggling injury or not. Unless they keep it secret from their club obviously. First sign of anything, even a minor twinge these days and players go straight to the physio who will normally recommend they withdraw from international football if a game is coming up. Sad days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, Texas Pete said: In fairness it’s not really up to a player to decide if he plays for Scotland with a niggling injury or not. Unless they keep it secret from their club obviously. First sign of anything, even a minor twinge these days and players go straight to the physio who will normally recommend they withdraw from international football if a game is coming up. Sad days. Yes okay I see what you are saying and are correct but commitment to the cause, passion to play and desire to represent Scotland all has to be there and the new manager will also have that task making sure he can drill that into the squad and the team once it goes out onto the pitch. In recent matches that has been lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 18 hours ago, Texas Pete said: Different bookies will offer different odds based on the bets they’ve taken. Nothing new there. I’ve given up using bookies odds to judge what’s going to happen with these things though as they often get it wrong. Its pretty frustrating when we don’t know anything with less than five weeks until our next game. Hopefully they’ll appoint someone soon. Pretty sure I understand the way bookies work as well, if not better than you. I doubt if either of the bookies quoting odds have taken much more than a couple of hundred quid on any one hence the reason why four different options have been odds on. But I do find it interesting For what it's worth Betvictor have closed their book which is always interesting even more so if SKYBET do soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenmcn Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 12 hours ago, Texas Pete said: So you slate the Scottish league as if it’s nothing but think our national manager should be some fantastic manager as if the Scotland job was something special? You’re sounding dafter and dafter by the post. Where did I say it had to somebody special, you're just making shit up. I just want them to be a higher level than the spl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 minute ago, stevenmcn said: Where did I say it had to somebody special, you're just making shit up. I just want them to be a higher level than the spl. Why do they have to be higher level thank spl? Look at our managers since 1990 Roxburgh - Scotland youth setup. Didn't even play at a high level Brown - at the mighty clyde then assistant to roxburgh. Arguably our most successful Vogts - probably the one manager weve had who had played and coached at the highest level but classed as a failure. Burley - Ipswich and hearts, hardly monumental levels Smith - succes at rangers when they were spewing out cash and then a mediocre spell at Everton. He did ok with Scotland Mcleish- came so close in an almost impossible group but only had spl experience Levein - spl experience but spectacular failure. Strachan - spfl level and EPL but still failed Mcleish- totally flopped despite EPL and championship experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenmcn Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: Why do they have to be higher level thank spl? Look at our managers since 1990 Roxburgh - Scotland youth setup. Didn't even play at a high level Brown - at the mighty clyde then assistant to roxburgh. Arguably our most successful Vogts - probably the one manager weve had who had played and coached at the highest level but classed as a failure. Burley - Ipswich and hearts, hardly monumental levels Smith - succes at rangers when they were spewing out cash and then a mediocre spell at Everton. He did ok with Scotland Mcleish- came so close in an almost impossible group but only had spl experience Levein - spl experience but spectacular failure. Strachan - spfl level and EPL but still failed Mcleish- totally flopped despite EPL and championship experience I think you've just answered your own question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: Why do they have to be higher level thank spl? Look at our managers since 1990 Roxburgh - Scotland youth setup. Didn't even play at a high level Brown - at the mighty clyde then assistant to roxburgh. Arguably our most successful Vogts - probably the one manager weve had who had played and coached at the highest level but classed as a failure. Burley - Ipswich and hearts, hardly monumental levels Smith - succes at rangers when they were spewing out cash and then a mediocre spell at Everton. He did ok with Scotland Mcleish- came so close in an almost impossible group but only had spl experience Levein - spl experience but spectacular failure. Strachan - spfl level and EPL but still failed Mcleish- totally flopped despite EPL and championship experience And perhaps seen as our best manager - Jock Stein. He had a very brief spell at Leeds but all his success came in the SPL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, stevenmcn said: Where did I say it had to somebody special, you're just making shit up. I just want them to be a higher level than the spl. Still getting dafter. It hasn’t been called the SPL for a few years now. Michael O’Neill never even made it as high as the top flight in Scotland and he’s doing just fine. Arguably our most successful manager, Craig Brown, had only managed Clyde in the Scottish lower leagues before he got the Scotland job. Managing in the Scottish Premiership does not mean you’re not a good manager. McInnes has been loyal to Aberdeen. If he wasn’t he’d either be at Ibrox or managing in England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: And perhaps seen as our best manager - Jock Stein. He had a very brief spell at Leeds but all his success came in the SPL. Think he did ok in Europe once or twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenmcn Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: And perhaps seen as our best manager - Jock Stein. He had a very brief spell at Leeds but all his success came in the SPL. Yeah but way back then the Scottish league was of a good level, maybe even one of the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenmcn Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, Texas Pete said: Still getting dafter. It hasn’t been called the SPL for a few years now. Michael O’Neill never even made it as high as the top flight in Scotland and he’s doing just fine. Arguably our most successful manager, Craig Brown, had only managed Clyde in the Scottish lower leagues before he got the Scotland job. Managing in the Scottish Premiership does not mean you’re not a good manager. McInnes has been loyal to Aberdeen. If he wasn’t he’d either be at Ibrox or managing in England. Who cares what it's called, its still poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, Texas Pete said: Still getting dafter. It hasn’t been called the SPL for a few years now. Michael O’Neill never even made it as high as the top flight in Scotland and he’s doing just fine. Arguably our most successful manager, Craig Brown, had only managed Clyde in the Scottish lower leagues before he got the Scotland job. Managing in the Scottish Premiership does not mean you’re not a good manager. McInnes has been loyal to Aberdeen. If he wasn’t he’d either be at Ibrox or managing in England. Looks like you are losing the argument if you need to bring in the old "you don't even know what the League is called" defence. Doesn't really matter which of the two gets the job, neither have ever achieved anything. would just a soon have Gemmell as like Brown and Roxburgh he has come through the international set up. No one wants that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said: Looks like you are losing the argument if you need to bring in the old "you don't even know what the League is called" defence. Doesn't really matter which of the two gets the job, neither have ever achieved anything. would just a soon have Gemmell as like Brown and Roxburgh he has come through the international set up. No one wants that though. End of the day what had Michael O' Neill achieved in the SPL? Nothing at all except below that level but Scotland fans in general were apopleptic when the SFA couldn't even poach him properly for the job last time around. Edited May 12, 2019 by Caledonian Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said: End of the day what had Michael O' Neill achieved in the SPL? Nothing of note but Scotland fans in general were apopleptic when the SFA couldn't even poach him properly for the job last time around. Scotland weren't trying to poach a manager with no real club experience they were trying to get one with successful international experience there is a slight difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 minute ago, ceudmilefailte said: Scotland weren't trying to poach a manager with no real club experience they were trying to get one with successful international experience there is a slight difference Point is he had done next to sod all as a manager when he got the Northern Ireland job and proved to be a success at it. That being the case I cannot see why people are keen to play down the likes of Clarke and McInnes credentials for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 28 minutes ago, stevenmcn said: Yeah but way back then the Scottish league was of a good level, maybe even one of the best. Correct but that's not the point being made. Where the manager has served his time or managed is irrelevant. It's as long as hes the right man for the job. If you look at our recent history, those who have managed at a higher level than the SPFL haven't done anything with Scotland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 17 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said: Looks like you are losing the argument if you need to bring in the old "you don't even know what the League is called" defence. Doesn't really matter which of the two gets the job, neither have ever achieved anything. would just a soon have Gemmell as like Brown and Roxburgh he has come through the international set up. No one wants that though. I don’t think I’m losing the argument at all but thanks for your amazing insight. McInnes has won the league cup with Aberdeen. That, whether you agree or not, is achieving something. Ok so it’s hardly the Champions League but it’s still a trophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 38 minutes ago, stevenmcn said: Who cares what it's called, its still poor. It’s certainly a poorer standard than the top leagues in Europe but it’s not as bad as you’re making out. Again, being a manager in Scotland does not make you a bad manager, particularly if you’ve done well here. You may also have noticed that the national team is quite poor at the moment. There’s a reason why we won’t attract someone from a top league. Not someone that’s in s job anyway. I’d rather have Clarke or McInnes than some has been from the scrap heap that managed a team in them English premier league 20 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Texas Pete said: I don’t think I’m losing the argument at all but thanks for your amazing insight. McInnes has won the league cup with Aberdeen. That, whether you agree or not, is achieving something. Ok so it’s hardly the Champions League but it’s still a trophy. Didn't say you were losing the argument but as soon a some one says"you don't even know what the league is called" it's a sign of a desperate attempt to deflect attention. Thanks for your "amazing insight" is even worse. Condescending comments make an argument look even more desperate. Agree with a lot of what you are saying but if you regard winning one trophy in six years, most of which as the second biggest club in the country as an achievement fair enough It's probably on a par with getting Kilmarnock into the top six twice though. If I was the SFA I'd just take the cheaper of the two. and knock 50p of a match day ticket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said: Didn't say you were losing the argument but as soon a some one says"you don't even know what the league is called" it's a sign of a desperate attempt to deflect attention. Thanks for your "amazing insight" is even worse. Condescending comments make an argument look even more desperate. Agree with a lot of what you are saying but if you regard winning one trophy in six years, most of which as the second biggest club in the country as an achievement fair enough It's probably on a par with getting Kilmarnock into the top six twice though. If I was the SFA I'd just take the cheaper of the two. and knock 50p of a match day ticket You a life coach or something? You post how you want to post and I’ll post how I want to post. This board is not a competition. Aberdeen are hardly miles ahead of Kilmarnock or Hearts in terms of budget. They were struggling to make the top 6 before McInnes took over. In all honesty I will still be surprised if McInnes or Clarke take the job. I’m still expecting Moyes or someone similar to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenmcn Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Texas Pete said: It’s certainly a poorer standard than the top leagues in Europe but it’s not as bad as you’re making out. Again, being a manager in Scotland does not make you a bad manager, particularly if you’ve done well here. You may also have noticed that the national team is quite poor at the moment. There’s a reason why we won’t attract someone from a top league. Not someone that’s in s job anyway. I’d rather have Clarke or McInnes than some has been from the scrap heap that managed a team in them English premier league 20 years ago. Look mate, at the end of the day, all I'm saying is, in my opinion, and mine alone, success here in Scotland isn't enough to merit the national post and I don't really see anything in his record against Celtic or in Europe to suggest he would be a success. I could very well be wrong and he could get the job and be a legendary Scotland manager and I'd have been wrong, but as of now I don't see it. I'm happy to be proved wrong however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, stevenmcn said: Look mate, at the end of the day, all I'm saying is, in my opinion, and mine alone, success here in Scotland isn't enough to merit the national post and I don't really see anything in his record against Celtic or in Europe to suggest he would be a success. I could very well be wrong and he could get the job and be a legendary Scotland manager and I'd have been wrong, but as of now I don't see it. I'm happy to be proved wrong however. I understand what you’re saying, I just don’t agree with it. Not that it matters whether I agree or not. All that matters is whether the SFA agree or not and I think they’d probably be happy with either Clarke or McInnes. Remains to be seen if either of those two want it though. If they do then one of them will likely be appointed. As for McInnes’ record against Celtic? That’s a bit like judging Scotland on their record against Brazil. I wouldn’t exactly be buzzing at the appointment of either but I think they’d both do a good job for us. All we need is someone who is not a shambles and who can organise a group of players into playing somewhere near their best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonny78 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Paul Dickov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, stevenmcn said: Look mate, at the end of the day, all I'm saying is, in my opinion, and mine alone, success here in Scotland isn't enough to merit the national post and I don't really see anything in his record against Celtic or in Europe to suggest he would be a success. I could very well be wrong and he could get the job and be a legendary Scotland manager and I'd have been wrong, but as of now I don't see it. I'm happy to be proved wrong however. The thing is it matters not one iota what any of us fans think as who we want as the manager is always millions of miles away from who the SFA Selection Committee opt for. You can take your pick from Clarke, McInnes, Gemmill and Moyes. You can argue that McInnes hasn't managed beyond the SPL or that Clarke has not ripped up trees down south or that Gemmill has no real management experience at club level or that Moyes is well past his sell-by date. It is a case of having to choose between the best of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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