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Next Scotland Manager ?


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21 minutes ago, wee-toon-red said:

You really think we’re going to attract an establish manager who anyone else wants? If you want someone whose stock is high you’ll be looking at a very young and inexperienced manager. International football isn’t for managers at the peak of their power, it’s for people looking to make a name for themselves like Gareth Southgate, Ryan giggs etc, or it’s for people who are done at club level or who don’t want to be at club level like mick McCarthy, Michael O’Neill or Joachim Loew.

For example, jack Ross for category one and Moyes for category two, with Steve Clarke somewhere between the two.

Not sure were Jack Ross's category is but  he is odds on to fail to get the biggest club in the first division promoted.

 

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53 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

You can argue for Moyes all you like. He's your choice not mIne. Why? He's damaged goods whose last three jobs have seen him dispatched in double quick time. You can point to West Ham but ask yourself why he wasn't given the job full-time? And why has he been out of work for a year? Yes you can say he may have wanted a rest or that he's waiting for a job he really wants or whatever other excuse but I don't buy it. Football managers do not disappear from football for a year and then bounce back and be a success.

Who do I want is irrelevant as it will go to whoever the SFA selection committee muppets opt for and I doubt their list will contain names to excite. Of the names trumpeted around that are realistic options I'd go for Steve Clarke.

He wasn't dispatched from his last 3 jobs, he resigned from his last 2, sacked at Man Utd and Sociedad. Managers don't disappear for a year and bounce back? Really? You heard of Claudio Ranieri or Louis Van Gaal? And finally, who you want isn't irrelevant, it's an opinion. If you're going to pick holes in everybody else's opinion at least have the balls to have one of your own to get shot down instead of hiding behind a shit excuse.

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9 minutes ago, stevenmcn said:

He wasn't dispatched from his last 3 jobs, he resigned from his last 2, sacked at Man Utd and Sociedad. Managers don't disappear for a year and bounce back? Really? You heard of Claudio Ranieri or Louis Van Gaal? And finally, who you want isn't irrelevant, it's an opinion. If you're going to pick holes in everybody else's opinion at least have the balls to have one of your own to get shot down instead of hiding behind a shit excuse.

Take your Moyes specs off for a moment eh?

Real Sociedad Win % 28.57

Sunderland Win % 18.60

West Ham Win % 29.03

Gee whizz Eck had a win % of 41.67 for us in his second spell and it wasn't good enough. The last Scotland manager to plumb the depths of Moyes recent managerial record is George Burley with win % of 21.43.

No thanks.

And can you read? I gave you who I would go for - Steve Clarke.

Edited by Caledonian Craig
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16 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Take your Moyes specs off for a moment eh?

Real Sociedad Win % 28.57

Sunderland Win % 18.60

West Ham Win % 29.03

Gee whizz Eck had a win % of 41.67 for us in his second spell and it wasn't good enough. The last Scotland manager to plumb the depths of Moyes recent managerial record is George Burley with win % of 21.43.

No thanks.

And can you read? I gave you who I would go for - Steve Clarke.

Are you still wheeling out stats like their relevant? And if you're going to use them at least use relevant comparisons. Why would anyone compare McLeish's Scotland record to Moyes record in La Liga? How is playing Israel, Albania and Kazakhstan relevant to games played in one of the world's top leagues? Why not compare Moyes premier League record against McLeish's or even Clarke's? It's fine, I know why. And maybe it's you that can't read. What part of our discussion did you tell who your choice was?

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1 minute ago, stevenmcn said:

Are you still wheeling out stats like their relevant? And if you're going to use them at least use relevant comparisons. Why would anyone compare McLeish's Scotland record to Moyes record in La Liga? How is playing Israel, Albania and Kazakhstan relevant to games played in one of the world's top leagues? Why not compare Moyes premier League record against McLeish's or even Clarke's? It's fine, I know why. And maybe it's you that can't read. What part of our discussion did you tell who your choice was?

Look you want Moyes I do not. You are not going to convince me he is the man for the job. Look to your penultimate post you quoted my point and I said who I would go for so it is you who cannot read.

Anyway like I said we'll agree to disagree on this. Moyes may get the job considering who is doing the hiring. If he does he'll get my full support as I do with any of our managers but he ain't the man for the job in my honest opinion.

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1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Look you want Moyes I do not. You are not going to convince me he is the man for the job. Look to your penultimate post you quoted my point and I said who I would go for so it is you who cannot read.

Anyway like I said we'll agree to disagree on this. Moyes may get the job considering who is doing the hiring. If he does he'll get my full support as I do with any of our managers but he ain't the man for the job in my honest opinion.

I never said I wanted Moyes, I said previously Clarke was my 1st choice, but wouldn't be disappointed with Moyes and gave reasons why. They are by far the two most experienced from the names being thrown about and would/should be a huge improvement on what we had.

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Just now, stevenmcn said:

I never said I wanted Moyes, I said previously Clarke was my 1st choice, but wouldn't be disappointed with Moyes and gave reasons why. They are by far the two most experienced from the names being thrown about and would/should be a huge improvement on what we had.

Fair enough. Lets just leave it at that. What will be will be.

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19 hours ago, stevenmcn said:

My pride is in not being an idiot like you as you're clearly clueless. Where did I admit mediocrity? Doing very well with a club that are almost always battling relegation is the tip of the iceberg. I'm more interested in the work he did in England at the highest level with world class players against equally world class teams, or is that just mediocre too. Who do you think should get the job?

You are entitled to your opinion but the bottom line is we as a country are now mired in mediocrity we have no pride to be better than that. Only 10 to 15 maybe 20 years ago we had Kenny Dalglish and Graeme Souness in running for the job two huge names in world football but now look who we have? Clarke yes he does well with Kilmarnock but will he have the respect of the players? I cant see it. mcinness ? god help us as anytime I watch Aberdeen I could cry they are hopeless. Some of our players think they are heroes and they have done fukall because they listen to the scottish media bumming them up. We do have imo good players namely robertson,fraser,forrest,mcgregor,mctominay,mcginn,armstong and a few others. People on her will mock but why cant we go for mourinho? Some wealthy businessmen pumped funds into scottish cup could they help again? Someone like that I feel is the only saviour as some of our clubs and players feel they are above the national team and his appointment would id imagine fill hampden for the next game and get a buzz going again. If the ones talked about on here get it hampden will get maybe another 5k at next game and yes they might do ok but I dont feel any of them have the balls to stand up to the clubs and that was a huge reason why Mcleish couldnt work. I will still be going regardless but excitement is a huge thing in football and there is none to be had here at present unfortunately.

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25 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

You are entitled to your opinion but the bottom line is we as a country are now mired in mediocrity we have no pride to be better than that. Only 10 to 15 maybe 20 years ago we had Kenny Dalglish and Graeme Souness in running for the job two huge names in world football but now look who we have? Clarke yes he does well with Kilmarnock but will he have the respect of the players? I cant see it. mcinness ? god help us as anytime I watch Aberdeen I could cry they are hopeless. Some of our players think they are heroes and they have done fukall because they listen to the scottish media bumming them up. We do have imo good players namely robertson,fraser,forrest,mcgregor,mctominay,mcginn,armstong and a few others. People on her will mock but why cant we go for mourinho? Some wealthy businessmen pumped funds into scottish cup could they help again? Someone like that I feel is the only saviour as some of our clubs and players feel they are above the national team and his appointment would id imagine fill hampden for the next game and get a buzz going again. If the ones talked about on here get it hampden will get maybe another 5k at next game and yes they might do ok but I dont feel any of them have the balls to stand up to the clubs and that was a huge reason why Mcleish couldnt work. I will still be going regardless but excitement is a huge thing in football and there is none to be had here at present unfortunately.

A few things. I agree with your mediocrity bit. However, Dalglish and Souness were only candidates in the fans' minds. Both, like Sir Alex, were both as quick as F*** to rule themselves out whenever the job became available. You say the players won't respect Clarke but that is guesswork. And you do realise it is the dinosaurs of the SFA selection committee who make the decisions here so prepare yourself for, most probably, an unexciting appointment. Youy won't and can't find a Sugar Daddy to buy the likes of Mourinho sadly and the SFA selection committee would still have to have their say in any case.

Edited by Caledonian Craig
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15 hours ago, stevenmcn said:

He has been linked with the job a few times over the years, but its never been anything more than paper talk (sure he was linked as far back as when Smith left, and he was mooted around time Levein got the job).

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2 hours ago, gaz7 said:

You are entitled to your opinion but the bottom line is we as a country are now mired in mediocrity we have no pride to be better than that. Only 10 to 15 maybe 20 years ago we had Kenny Dalglish and Graeme Souness in running for the job two huge names in world football but now look who we have? 

Do not think Dalglish was ever in the running.... for a long time in the 90's and early 00's his was the first name on everyone's lips when the job was going, but I do not think he was ever in serious consideration for it, and I do not think he actually ever wanted it.

Souness was asked a number of times, but he kept knocking it back, and the one time he was interested, he took a huffy because the SFA selected Burley (Souness certainly had the backing of the media, and I think the Record might have even went as far as saying Souness had the job... only for Burley to be announced a few days later.... this was part of the reason Burley had a rocky relationship with the press from the off, as he was not the man they wanted, as they had campaigned for Souness to get the job).

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48052136

Apologies if this was posted before. But an interesting read from Mark Wotte who was the performance director not so long ago. Interesting to note he mentions that it's half and half people with new ideas vs the old process from his experience.

One part resonated with me:

"If there is an experienced coach with different insights, that's got to be helpful to qualify for the next rounds. You participate in Europe so you need to have a European standard - not a Scottish standard."

This is why I think we would be much better going for a Moyes or Billic or the other random names getting dropped into the hate versus a domestic heavyweight like Clarke or McInnes. As mentioned before there's every chance both of those would pale in comparison to international standards like a Levein or Burley

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30 minutes ago, N4Footsoldier said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48052136

Apologies if this was posted before. But an interesting read from Mark Wotte who was the performance director not so long ago. Interesting to note he mentions that it's half and half people with new ideas vs the old process from his experience.

One part resonated with me:

"If there is an experienced coach with different insights, that's got to be helpful to qualify for the next rounds. You participate in Europe so you need to have a European standard - not a Scottish standard."

This is why I think we would be much better going for a Moyes or Billic or the other random names getting dropped into the hate versus a domestic heavyweight like Clarke or McInnes. As mentioned before there's every chance both of those would pale in comparison to international standards like a Levein or Burley

It is all quite irrelevant though. The SFA dinosaurs are incompetent, clueless fuds who will do what they want and to hell with what the experts think.

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3 hours ago, andyD said:

My only hope is that.. they've realised that they need someone to give a bit of hope and inspire the fans.
The next manager needs to be a credible reason for optimism.

As long as that's what we get, then good.

I think they probably figured out that hampden was doomed to  be empty for the next year under McLeish and potentially for decades if we fail to qualify for a home Euros. 

So the business case for bringing in a new manager, at a higher cost,  who might tempt a few thousand back to hampden is quite clear. 

Pretty sure (at worst) It'll be Steve Clarke and he will need a big result against Russia or Belgium to start winning the fans back.

Hopefully its not too little too late. 

Edited by Morrisandmoo
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3 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

I think they probably figured out that hampden was doomed to  be empty for the next year under McLeish and potentially for decades if we fail to qualify for a home Euros. 

So the business case for bringing in a new manager, at a higher cost,  who might tempt a few thousand back to hampden is quite clear. 

Pretty sure (at worst) It'll be Steve Clarke and he will need a big result against Russia or Belgium to start winning the fans back.

Hopefully its not too little too late. 

Hope you're right but this is pretty much the same crew that made the last appointment on the cheap, doing an old mate a favour despite the fact they knew it would cost massive amounts of lost cash in empty stadiums.

I know a lot of folk who are holding off on buying tickets for the cyprus game until the new manager is announced.  If it isn't clarke or bilic or some big name from left field to excite everyone, then the place will be empty.

I reckon a good appointment could put an extra 20,000 in the crowd, especially with it being a saturday.  That's a hell of lot of extra ticket money for one game against a small team.  That alone justifies not doing it on the cheap, never mind the different financial league that tournament qualification puts us in.

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4 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

I think they probably figured out that hampden was doomed to  be empty for the next year under McLeish and potentially for decades if we fail to qualify for a home Euros. 

So the business case for bringing in a new manager, at a higher cost,  who might tempt a few thousand back to hampden is quite clear. 

Pretty sure (at worst) It'll be Steve Clarke and he will need a big result against Russia or Belgium to start winning the fans back.

Hopefully its not too little too late. 

The playoff is the big game now.  Not Russia or Belgium 

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