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Catalonia & the UK media blackout of events


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10 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Politicians are generally hypocritical, even the ones who seem alright. 

That East Timor story is horrendous, don't think I've looked at politics the same since learning what happened. 

Just pointing out the rather sad hypocrisy of the so-called left in Britain.

A classic example being your fat, loud mouth, thicko Labour councillor in Glasgow or Lanarkshire (past and present) who dearly loves his Palestine, Irish and Tibet solidarity events but fervently opposes Scottish independence and enjoys ridiculing Scottish history, heritage and culture.

Independence for Kurdistan is the one cause that seems to have divided them.

Edited by ErsatzThistle
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28 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said:

That's true, but in point of fact isn't it also a little disingenuous to compare the relevant supranational governments' approaches to the independence referendums in Scotland and Catalonia? 

The Westminster establishment and Unionist parties did "allow" a referendum then allied with the media that they control used every underhand tactic with a litany of misinformation and threats 24/7.

The Spanish Government wouldnt be able to win using those tactics as they dont control the Catalan media/press therefore wont allow a referendum and have sent in the police.

The desired outcome is the same although approaches are different.

What would the Westminster/Unionist parties approach have been if they didnt have every news outlet at their disposal ?

Tanks at George Square again ?

And for all intent and purposes there is a media "blackout" of whats going on in Catalonia but not enough for them to be guilty of the accusation - thats the clever bit.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Just pointing out the rather sad hypocrisy of the so-called left in Britain.

A classic example being your fat, loud mouth, thicko Labour councillor in Glasgow or Lanarkshire (past and present) who dearly loves his Palestine, Irish and Tibet solidarity events but fervently opposes Scottish independence and enjoys ridiculing Scottish history, heritage and culture.

Independence for Kurdistan is the one cause that seems to have divided them.

Easy enough to rig it. They might even have done. 

Margo MacDonald was onto it when she asked for assurances that mi5 wouldn't be involved. 

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29 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The Westminster establishment and Unionist parties did "allow" a referendum then allied with the media that they control used every underhand tactic with a litany of misinformation and threats 24/7.

The Spanish Government wouldnt be able to win using those tactics as they dont control the Catalan media/press therefore wont allow a referendum and have sent in the police.

The desired outcome is the same although approaches are different.

What would the Westminster/Unionist parties approach have been if they didnt have every news outlet at their disposal ?

Tanks at George Square again ?

And for all intent and purposes there is a media "blackout" of whats going on in Catalonia but not enough for them to be guilty of the accusation - thats the clever bit.

 

 

 

The UK government does not control the media in the sense that you suggest. It doesn't need to. The media are simply part of the ideological state apparatus, along with everything from the education system to the family that ensures ideological compliance. Governments don't control that, culture does.

Are you honestly comparing the UK government's actions during the 2014 referendum to what you were saying was coming out of Madrid yesterday? Or was that post just another example of your inability to avoid lazy exaggeration?

On 9/16/2017 at 2:42 PM, Ally Bongo said:

Spain has threatened to seize Catalan finances in the next 48 hours

700 mayors summoned to court for supporting the referendum

Spanish police raid printing firms searching for referendum material

Civil Guards have been sent from Madrid to intimidate citizens

Spanish police enter Newspaper head office and identify pro independence journalists

Spanish prosecutors order police to confiscate pro referendum posters

Internet now being censored in Catalonia

Not headline news ?

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said:

The UK government does not control the media in the sense that you suggest. It doesn't need to. The media are simply part of the ideological state apparatus, along with everything from the education system to the family that ensures ideological compliance. Governments don't control that, culture does.

Are you honestly comparing the UK government's actions during the 2014 referendum to what you were saying was coming out of Madrid yesterday? Or was that post just another example of your inability to avoid lazy exaggeration?

 

 

First paragraph pure pedantry - trying to be the clever arse

Second paragraph - maybe you need specs

42 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The desired outcome is the same although approaches are different.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

How many countries have you lived in?

Is there a proven correlation between countries lived in and ability to speak on UK government relationship with the press in the US? Or did you just imply one in an act of sophistry?

I've just came back from a 3 day stag-do in Berlin so just storming in.

 

 

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The implication was 'degrees of freedom' and viewing the degree of press freedom in the UK in a wider context (plus I was falling asleep). If, as Ally Bear suggests, the UK media are at the government's disposal, then the government would never be criticized (which is what occurs in countries where the media is under government control). This isn't to say that the media, on the whole, are anti-Tory (the BBC probably is, mildly) or anti-Westminster, which is why I brought Althusser's more nuanced concept of Ideological State Apparatus into the free-flow of ideas - a fruitful approach, in my view, and I get accused of being a clever arse for my pains...

It's enlightening that folk can't bring themselves to acknowledge the difference between Madrid and London in their different approaches to tackling independence. We saw the British Establishment response to a possible Yes vote and it wasn't a mobilization of tanks in George Square, it was panic and semi-appeasement, in the shape of the Vow.

Laying the blame for the 55% No vote at the door of a state-controlled media ignores weaknesses in the Yes campaign, and if those are ignored then they could be repeated (although to be fair, I doubt Ally will be put in charge of the campaign). The media was highly influential, but not because its content was dictated by Westminster; more because it's rooted in the same ideological soil.

I hope you enjoyed Berlin ...

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8 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said:

The implication was 'degrees of freedom' and viewing the degree of press freedom in the UK in a wider context (plus I was falling asleep). If, as Ally Bear suggests, the UK media are at the government's disposal, then the government would never be criticized (which is what occurs in countries where the media is under government control). This isn't to say that the media, on the whole, are anti-Tory (the BBC probably is, mildly) or anti-Westminster, which is why I brought Althusser's more nuanced concept of Ideological State Apparatus into the free-flow of ideas - a fruitful approach, in my view, and I get accused of being a clever arse for my pains...

 

The interaction of the British media and Government/ Unionist parties when the British State is under threat is completely different to their interaction on political policies 

Surely you are aware of that ?

And as i alluded to earlier the Spanish Government cannot use the same tactics because for example - Catalonia has a shit load of Independent media not controlled by Madrid

We cant even get a Scottish 6 FFS

Edited by Ally Bongo
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Events in Catalonia regards the referendum

http://www.cataloniavotes.eu/en/civil-rights-in-catalonia-at-stake/

A Spanish TV reporter earlier today also urged Kim Jong -Un to drop a nuclear bomb on Barcelona

http://www.elnacional.cat/ca/politica/intereconomia-anima-kim-jong-un-a-disparar-un-missil-nuclear-contra-barcelona_193230_102.html

Police today removing pro referendum banners in private balconies

DKHK0PoWkAEHfFk.jpg

And as i alluded to earlier - is this the reason we are not hearing much about it ?

http://www.newsnet.scot/nns-archive/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6195:tories-admit-secret-eu-meeting-but-deny-deal-to-block-scottish-membership&catid=6:general&Itemid=89

 

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It's shocking that the coverage has been so sparse.  Where the BBC have had anything at all on their website, it has talked of "separatists".  Not biased language at all.  Can they not say "independence supporters"?  Does it really stick in their throats that much?

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Raiding warehouses and confiscating posters, removing banners from private property, police storming government buildings and the attempt to deny a referendum taking place. 

A true affront to democracy. A disgrace. 

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20 minutes ago, Alibi said:

It's shocking that the coverage has been so sparse.  Where the BBC have had anything at all on their website, it has talked of "separatists".  Not biased language at all.  Can they not say "independence supporters"?  Does it really stick in their throats that much?

That's just not true. The main story on the website uses 'independence' eight times (including the phrase "pro-independence activists") and the term 'separatist' once ("Catalan separatist MP").

Edited by DonnyTJS
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59 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said:

That's just not true. The main story on the website uses 'independence' eight times (including the phrase "pro-independence activists") and the term 'separatist' once ("Catalan separatist MP").

That's a new story which I hadn't seen until now.  Previously it's been all separatists and playing down of the numbers at that demonstration last weekend.  Maybe they are paying attention to the criticism.

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1 hour ago, DonnyTJS said:

That's just not true. The main story on the website uses 'independence' eight times (including the phrase "pro-independence activists") and the term 'separatist' once ("Catalan separatist MP").

Twice, you can control+F and put the word in and it'll match them for you.

Other bit is " Catalonia's separatist government is defying a Constitutional Court order to halt the planned 1 October vote, which has been condemned by the Madrid government as illegal. "

Obviously just a point of pedantry, but you know the board that could be parlayed into anything.

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