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Need to not use celtic goal keeper craig gordon for scotland


bonny78

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8 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

At the moment yes.

But I thought WGS made an interesting comment on Sky tonight when he said that as a manager you smell who is the keeper to choose.

Also thought Darren Fletcher was excellent as a summariser tonight. Intelligent, articulate, head screwed on right and shows up fuds like Alex Rae, Kris Boyd, Kris Commons et al for the charlatans that they are.

Thick Boyd was in the ssn studio trying to string a sentence together. I agree, Fletcher was refreshing compared to the usual Scottish football guests.

 

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  • 3 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

For a long time Gordon was the best option. Right the now, McGregor's doing better. Players picked on form, just as it should be.

You're some fundamentalist loon who wants 'anyone but gordon' tho, so you're just a bit pointless, bonny.

Happy new year, by the way. :D

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1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Probably of no interest to any one other than me but Millwall have won their last three games with two clean sheets and Jordan Archer in goal. Not sure if that makes him any good or just better than Ben Amos.

 

Fans of other nations are talking about their players with Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Juventus, AC Milan, etc, we're talking about lads who are with Millwall

You are Championing a guy who might be playing in the League One next season?

Colonel Mustard called, he said "get a clue".

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43 minutes ago, Chripper said:

Fans of other nations are talking about their players with Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Juventus, AC Milan, etc, we're talking about lads who are with Millwall

You are Championing a guy who might be playing in the League One next season?

Colonel Mustard called, he said "get a clue".

You are forgetting that we are Scotland and not Brazil or Germany. We don't have alot of young talented goalkeepers coming up so we have to look to guys like archer who is playing in the English championship and is only 25. Gordon and McGregor both play in the spl, a league that's not exactly high standard so it's unfair to be critical of archer for playing English championship. 

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6 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

You are forgetting that we are Scotland and not Brazil or Germany. We don't have alot of young talented goalkeepers coming up so we have to look to guys like archer who is playing in the English championship and is only 25. Gordon and McGregor both play in the spl, a league that's not exactly high standard so it's unfair to be critical of archer for playing English championship. 

Exactly.

In other words, we are in some state!

I do think Archer isn't good enough, though. Liam Kelly has potential.

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2 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Probably of no interest to any one other than me but Millwall have won their last three games with two clean sheets and Jordan Archer in goal. Not sure if that makes him any good or just better than Ben Amos.

To give that context tho.. they were playing the two bottom clubs and one from upper mid-table.
Not doing him down, but got to keep the opposition in mind.

Glad he's kept a few clean sheets, but it is a very small sample. He was also in for the previous 6 where there wasnt a single clean sheet and they shipped 10 goals. So.. small steps. Good that he's back in the starting lineup the last few months tho.

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10 minutes ago, Chripper said:

Exactly.

In other words, we are in some state!

I do think Archer isn't good enough, though. Liam Kelly has potential.

We have been like this for a good 20 years though. Chances are we will never be a Germany or Spain so English championship players will have to be considered. Just a fact of life. With regards archer he is relatively young for a goalkeeper so he can hopefully improve and given the fact we have very little coming through in that position then reality is we may have to turn to him. I agree Liam Kelly looks good and is one of the reasons livi have done well this season. Hopefully a couple more come through because as it stands we will be using archer wether any of us like it or not.

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18 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

We have been like this for a good 20 years though. Chances are we will never be a Germany or Spain so English championship players will have to be considered. Just a fact of life. With regards archer he is relatively young for a goalkeeper so he can hopefully improve and given the fact we have very little coming through in that position then reality is we may have to turn to him. I agree Liam Kelly looks good and is one of the reasons livi have done well this season. Hopefully a couple more come through because as it stands we will be using archer wether any of us like it or not.

Agreed. And lets face it, Championship level is akin to the SPL. I'm not having a pop at the English Championship, I've just seek Archer a few times this season (and for our Under 21s) and he doesn't look very good at all. 

Kelly does look very good. Hopefully he receives a call up in the next squad as we do need a new wave of keepers.

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6 minutes ago, andyD said:

To give that context tho.. they were playing the two bottom clubs and one from upper mid-table.
Not doing him down, but got to keep the opposition in mind.

Glad he's kept a few clean sheets, but it is a very small sample. He was also in for the previous 6 where there wasnt a single clean sheet and they shipped 10 goals. So.. small steps. Good that he's back in the starting lineup the last few months tho.

I was in no way suggesting he was good enough.  Like you just glad he was returning to some sort of form and at 26 I would say that depending on the next couple of years he still has a chance to become a decent keeper.

Millwall fans appear to not rate him and he does make some shocking mistakes, begs the question can a players negative points be covered by his positive ones.

New it was the bottom two teams and against 9 men in one of them, and against a declining  Forest side in the other.

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1 minute ago, ceudmilefailte said:

 can a players negative points be covered by his positive ones.

It's a good question, and i think it's hard. It's going to take a long time for some to forget what he did in the Peru game. Totally unnecessary. tho lucky for him there was nothing riding on the game.

I think it partly depends on where the player plays. wingers who can get you off your seat, but give the ball away a lot are easily forgiven. kenny miller missed more sitters than i can count, but worked his socks off, so was forgiven. but when it comes to defenders and goal keepers it's harder. their mistakes tend to result in goals, and their good points end up being overlooked easily as a result. Sort of the inverse of forwards in that regard.

With keepers i think it's even more magnified. Your defense has to trust the goalkeeper. I think that was part of the problem with liverpool while mignolet was in goal. The defense looked terrible, and people were criticising them for being out of position constantly. Particularly Lovren. I think in reality he was just trying to cover things he shouldnt need to because he didnt trust mignolet to do his job properly. Spin forwards, and give him a different keeper (alisson or subosic) and Lovern's in the champions league and world cup finals. So i think with a keeper you're better off having a reliable, but not necessarily amazing one, over one who does amazing things sometimes and crazy things others.

Archer's still only 25. Relatively young for a keeper. Maybe he just needs to find a manager who will help him iron out those slightly crazy moments he seems to have. I've only been to the new den a handful of times, but millwall doesn't strike me as a good place to mature and learn from your mistakes. the chant of 'everybody hates us we dont care' says it all really. Good that he's getting games, would like to see him genuinely getting better tho, as he seems to have ability, just needs to get reduce the number of wobbles.

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It is time we started talking about our future goalkeepers.

Just my gut feeling but I think Alan McGregor will retire from internationals next year. Jon McLaughlin (who is a decent keeper ) will be our number one for at least one qualifying campaign.

Craig Gordon undoubtedly had his best game in months in the Old Firm match just by. To most of us, he will always be a Scotland hero but let's be brutally honest here,  his days of being a top keeper are clearly over. 

Some people seem to think we don't have any goalkeepers available other than Craig Gordon, Alan McGregor and Jordan Archer.

Don't forget that there are worthy contenders in - Zander Clark (St Johnston), Liam Kelly (Livingston), Jon McLaughlin (Sunderland) & Craig MacGillivray* (Portsmouth)

You could add Scott Bain but he should only be considered if he can get a prolonged run of games at Celtic or become a regular at another club. 

From the lack of recent call ups despite his previous international experience and still getting games for his club, presumably David Marshall has informed McLeish that he no longer wants to be called up ?

*MacGillivray was born in England but has a Scottish father and his manager, Kenny Jackett, recently confirmed that MacGillivray identifies as a Scot and is keen to play for us. 

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I think McGregor's still the best performing, so i wouldn't be looking to drop in any time soon. If he walks away at some point, fair enough, that's up to him. Gordon's still a proven option. He has bad days and good now, but every players goes in and out of form. Below them, there's a lot of players still sort of proving themselves. So would seem a bit premature to throw them in.

McLaughlin's (31) a decent option imo. Did fine when called upon. Likely to be a championship regular next season, at which point he's playing at as high a level as anyone we have.

Scott Bain's (27) still waiting in the wings.
David Marshall's (33) plugging away as Hulls no1.
Kelly's (22) star seems to be rising, so hopefully that continues.

I tend to agree about archer the more i think about it. unless he can iron out the crazy moments, he'll struggle to be seen as reliable enough to used at any good club. Millwall are, after all, a League One/Championship relegation candidate club and have been for along time.

So there's actually a pretty decent spread of players at decent ages to take over the mantle. I don't think gk is a position to panic about. We can carry on just picking the two best performing keepers for the foreseeable future, tho obviously involving some of the younger guys in squads or friendlies makes sense.

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7 hours ago, andyD said:

I think McGregor's still the best performing, so i wouldn't be looking to drop in any time soon. If he walks away at some point, fair enough, that's up to him. Gordon's still a proven option. He has bad days and good now, but every players goes in and out of form. Below them, there's a lot of players still sort of proving themselves. So would seem a bit premature to throw them in.

McLaughlin's (31) a decent option imo. Did fine when called upon. Likely to be a championship regular next season, at which point he's playing at as high a level as anyone we have.

Scott Bain's (27) still waiting in the wings.
David Marshall's (33) plugging away as Hulls no1.
Kelly's (22) star seems to be rising, so hopefully that continues.

I tend to agree about archer the more i think about it. unless he can iron out the crazy moments, he'll struggle to be seen as reliable enough to used at any good club. Millwall are, after all, a League One/Championship relegation candidate club and have been for along time.

So there's actually a pretty decent spread of players at decent ages to take over the mantle. I don't think gk is a position to panic about. We can carry on just picking the two best performing keepers for the foreseeable future, tho obviously involving some of the younger guys in squads or friendlies makes sense.

Think I put to much importance on age but players a ability can drop very suddenly as they age.

I like McLaughlin and I think at Hearts we had the chance to make a proper evaluation on his ability which was impossible to do on his performances in the English lower leagues. Pretty sure he has been his teams player of the year and also appeared twice in the leagues team of the year during his career though.

Wish Bain would get his chance at celtic.  Kelly has a log way to go and personally I would prefer not to see Marshall in a Scotland squad again.

Noticed Gunn was in goal for southampton last night on who scored when I went to check on Armstrong. He was sitting on 7 at half time which is good any were on the pitch he ended up on 8.4 and MoM which is unreal for a keeper. pity he thin's he's English when it's a plain as day he is Scottish.

Maybe his dad is in the huff that he got so few caps, I mean it's not like Leighton and Goram were any good

 

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10 hours ago, Chripper said:

Personally I think Archer is too prone to mistakes to be trusted. Xander Clark might improve, but he hasn't convinced me this season.

Liam Kelly is the pick of the bunch.

A gazillion clean sheets on the bounce against the same teams as everyone else but he hasn’t convinced you? Aye, right you are. 😂

What hasn’t convinced you is that he’s at a “diddy” club..... 🙄

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19 minutes ago, Ormond said:

A gazillion clean sheets on the bounce against the same teams as everyone else but he hasn’t convinced you? Aye, right you are. 😂

What hasn’t convinced you is that he’s at a “diddy” club..... 🙄

It's weird, opinions in this place are treated with the same contempt as the N word in everyday society. :lol:

I'm talking about the individual. I've watched Clark as much as I've seen Kelly this season, Clark always looks like a nervous wreck.

Well, let's be fair: McGregor, Bain, Clark, Kelly, Gordon, they're all at diddy clubs. 

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