John Graham of Claverhouse Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 That's another issue. It is an impossibility to ensure that 100% of any given ballot is precisely representative of the eligible electorate at the point of the vote. Could it be improved? Probably. Will it ever be perfected? Never. Most addresses I looked up had 1 occupant (pensioners that had lived alone for years) in real life but the database had around 10 occupants. If these extra 9 people (who may not be real people) could vote then it's a huge issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevo Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Most addresses I looked up had 1 occupant (pensioners that had lived alone for years) in real life but the database had around 10 occupants. If these extra 9 people (who may not be real people) could vote then it's a huge issue. I agree - but there are many factors involved in inaccurate registration of voters. Fraud is only one of them. To commit the sort of mass deception of the kind being claimed here would require undetected fraud on an industrial scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleboyblue Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 My polling card certainly had a bar code on the back. Not the polling card, the ballot paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnie x Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Not the polling card, the ballot paper. sorry, my ballot paper had a bar code on the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleboyblue Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) sorry, my ballot paper had a bar code on the back.Mine didn't, i'm sure of it. I folded it and would have noticed. Edited September 26, 2014 by littleboyblue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Postal voting is ‘wide open to fraud’ and should be scrapped in its current form, a top judge warned last night. Judge Richard Mawrey, who sits in judgment on election fraud cases, said ballot-rigging was now a ‘probability’ in some parts of Britain due to the extension of postal voting. Mr Mawrey, a deputy high court judge, said the introduction of ‘on demand’ postal voting had failed to boost turnout. But he warned it had made Britain’s electoral system vulnerable to fraud on ‘an industrial scale’. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2578776/Scrap-postal-votes-elections-fixed-says-judge-warns-ballot-rigging-probability-parts-Britain.html#ixzz3EQ2HsXAs Industrial scale...interesting phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I just typed "vote rigging in uk" into google and it was the first result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevo Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Industrial scale...interesting phrase. This is just about postal votes of course. Let's forget trivial stuff like evidence for now: I'm assuming you don't think that the majority of postal votes were fraudulently cast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brant grebner Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 http://www.michaelmeacher.info/weblog/2013/07/blairites-are-up-in-arms-about-falkirk-because-they-fear-theyve-lost-their-monopoly-in-fixing-seats/ "Why did they never investigate how they got them selected, by getting the regional secretaries put in place at the start of the Blair regime to instruct local parties who the candidate preferred by the leadership was and telling them actively to canvass for that person, and if all else failed there were always the ballot boxes and postal votes that could be tampered with?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnie x Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Mine didn't, i'm sure of it. I folded it and would have noticed. i turned it over for a look to see if there were any unique identifiers on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Graham of Claverhouse Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I agree - but there are many factors involved in inaccurate registration of voters. Fraud is only one of them. To commit the sort of mass deception of the kind being claimed here would require undetected fraud on an industrial scale. Who's to say those listed are people registering to vote? They certainly don't exist at the addresses I checked (occupant(s) lived there for more than 30 years...alone). Please keep in mind that the database I'm referring to here is/was located in Thames House (Security Service HQ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 For such an important thing, it strikes me that voting in the UK is childishly easy to manipulate if you have the will and the means. (I'm not saying it happned last week, btw) It can surely be improved by ; -removing postal voting -sending people a ballot card with a barcode. Have barcode checked by PC in the polling station, instead of the medieval system of paper lists that we have just now. -make sure everyone who turns up to vote has picture ID. No ID, no vote. It's archiaic how it's done just now.....the UK is holding onto some bizarre Victorian values that dictate that 'how it's always been done is the best way', and they also rely on a ridiculously high element of trust...something that I suspect strongly has been abused for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 So we all agree that postal votes in particular are wide open to industrial scale vote rigging. So two important questions...was the number of postal votes unusually high and was the voter turnout unusually high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 It can surely be improved by ; -sending people a ballot card with a barcode. Have barcode checked by PC in the polling station, instead of the medieval system of paper lists that we have just now. Im not convinced. I used to believe technology was the way forward but I think I'd rather avoid any and all technology given the unseen hackery that can be committed. What is the importance of the barcode on the ballot paper. As long as it makes its way into the box, it's supposed to be secure, right? I definitely agree with ending postal votes though. Didnt trust this process before, trusted it even less after Glenrothes and Im not sure I trust it in any way shape or form now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty CTA Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Definitely agree. Ill never forget the confidence from No politicians on the night of the vote. From just after 10pm, they knew they had won. YouGov's 99% certain that No had won just confirmed that confidence. It definitely stank. listen stop this... I knew at 9.15 when the local polling supervisor told me the turnout was 96% already. The rich and old in this affluent area were tuning out in HUGE numbers and I knew there was no way we could match this. At Ingliston, the first samples taken from counting the postal votes were coming through at 5 past 10. We were losing big on postal votes too. Our telephone canvassing in the week up to the election saw undecideds moving to NO - this had not happened before. Before I got in the hall I knew it was over. I saw Carmichael doing a victory interview at 10 past 10 on the basis of the early info. This is how it works. nothing dodgy happened on any scale. Tories peeking at the postal ballots, yes and they should get their arse kicked. Isolated incidents of idiots general faffing around - yes. Referendum nicked - no we lost... I have no doubt they were fecking about illegally and Davidson may end up having to resign if she knew and didn't report it, if not face charges Well maybe that's what we want to look at. And things like this... For such an important thing, it strikes me that voting in the UK is childishly easy to manipulate if you have the will and the means. (I'm not saying it happned last week, btw) It can surely be improved by ; -removing postal voting -sending people a ballot card with a barcode. Have barcode checked by PC in the polling station, instead of the medieval system of paper lists that we have just now. -make sure everyone who turns up to vote has picture ID. No ID, no vote. It's archiaic how it's done just now.....the UK is holding onto some bizarre Victorian values that dictate that 'how it's always been done is the best way', and they also rely on a ridiculously high element of trust...something that I suspect strongly has been abused for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanday Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Far too easy to register and far too easy to get a postal vote. I remember at the count one of my team, very experienced, saying, that many postal votes had the same type of cross written by the same pen/pencil. If most of the postal votes were elderly these crosses would be all over the place. If the "intelligence services" were involved they would have needed to fiddle around 10% of the vote - around 330k. That's a big job - but the best coups are the ones you don't believe are possible. The next step is to get the marked up registers and compare that with the postal voting list and see if anything jumps out. It's not impossible the fiddling process, if there was one, started last year with new additions to the registers, not this year. Westminster were so determined to keep us - don't think there's anything they were not prepared to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I wonder how many people living out with scotland suddenly had an address in scotland that they used the register so they could vote. Know I could have registered at my parents and my boss who has a Scottish wife told me plenty of her side registered and got a postal vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brant grebner Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ewcSKlWFcs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanday Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 These "votes" in terms of the crosses look more legit than the hundreds of very similar crosses we saw at the actual count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewelk Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Someone took a sharpie to the polling booth? This fraud thing isn't going away. If anything it's building momentum. I was always a bit suspicious of this high turnout and 'silent majority' chat before the referendum but like others here I can't see how they'd manage 400000. Clearly it was a combination of electoral fraud and meek Scots that lost it in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ewcSKlWFcs watch brant's video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) Dont know what to make of that at all As im a bit of a cynic my first impression was it must be pish but i obviously will wait for the truth to come out What makes it a bit dubious is the guys other vids & likes on Youtube Secondly If there really was an attempt at electoral fraud by powers unknown would they leave hundreds of Yes votes undestroyed in a bin bag to be found by a well known "exposer of miscarriages of justice" ? If it looks like shite and tastes like shite then it probably is ...shite (as much as i would like it to be true) Edited September 26, 2014 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Clearly it was a combination of electoral fraud and meek Scots that lost it in the end. Well monsieur lewelk, yesterday we were being told it was just 'us who lost it', and now today it was a combination of electoral fraud and maybe meek Scots that lost it... and so you see why perhaps tomorrow it could just be fraud that lost it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 If they went for it it will have been from every angle possible not just one. Chip away, death by a thousand cuts, each one if discovered deniable as a local event and irrelevant to the overall majority, with the postal votes industrial scale rigging up the sleeve as final insurance... I think we will find it is varied, wide scale, and everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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