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The Brexit Thread


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1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

Dont disagree but my point is that Boris Johnson’s shitty, pig in a poke of a deal  has managed to please just about no-one in the fishing industry and  escalated to this. Whatever you think of France I doubt their boats arrived in Jersey for no reason whatsoever. And I doubt very much the EU are rattled. 
I am neither here nor there with the EU , I would probably prefer to be in it but if an independent Scotland was  dependant on us not rejoining I would have no problem with that.
 
 

Aye it's shite, but there is no going back and the EU signed up to it too.

And they have in quick succession concluded it was a good idea to first threaten the good Friday agreement and now the electricity supply of a small island. 

If they are not rattled, then they are lunatics. Either that or Donald Trump is advising them on diplomacy. 

Just negotiate with Jersey around the very reasonable conservation rules like normal human beings.

Boris will be laughing in his porridge that the EU have given him an excuse to send warships. 

Absolute shambles.

Edited by Morrisandmoo
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1 hour ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Aye it's shite, but there is no going back and the EU signed up to it too.

And they have in quick succession concluded it was a good idea to first threaten the good Friday agreement and now the electricity supply of a small island. 

If they are not rattled, then they are lunatics. Either that or Donald Trump is advising them on diplomacy. 

Just negotiate with Jersey around the very reasonable conservation rules like normal human beings.

Boris will be laughing in his porridge that the EU have given him an excuse to send warships. 

Absolute shambles.

I'm sorry, what?

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2 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Aye it's shite, but there is no going back and the EU signed up to it too.

And they have in quick succession concluded it was a good idea to first threaten the good Friday agreement and now the electricity supply of a small island. 

If they are not rattled, then they are lunatics. Either that or Donald Trump is advising them on diplomacy. 

Just negotiate with Jersey around the very reasonable conservation rules like normal human beings.

Boris will be laughing in his porridge that the EU have given him an excuse to send warships. 

Absolute shambles.

Threaten the GFA ? You taking the piss ? 

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11 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Aye it's shite, but there is no going back and the EU signed up to it too.

And they have in quick succession concluded it was a good idea to first threaten the good Friday agreement and now the electricity supply of a small island. 

If they are not rattled, then they are lunatics. Either that or Donald Trump is advising them on diplomacy. 

Just negotiate with Jersey around the very reasonable conservation rules like normal human beings.

Boris will be laughing in his porridge that the EU have given him an excuse to send warships. 

Absolute shambles.

Truly bizarre and way off the mark post.

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2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Truly bizarre and way off the mark post.

It's only off the mark because it doesn't conform  to the narrative you (and others) tell yourself.

What's bizarre is threatening to put a border on Ireland, weeks after promising not to ever do that and now threatening to cut off electricity to a small island because of a fishing dispute. 

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13 hours ago, Grim Jim said:

Channel Islands were never in the EU.   Just pawn fishermen now.

yes, Jersey has just been caught in the crossfire between French fisherman and the UK dispute as its fishing in their waters the dispute is over.

The decision to involve Jersey is completely unacceptable but this trade deal which seems to have hidden issues everywhere is pissing a lot of people off.

On a general level the number of businesses that are getting hit with unforeseen costs is huge. Unsurprisingly you dont hear more in the papers. 

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14 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Aye it's shite, but there is no going back and the EU signed up to it too.

And they have in quick succession concluded it was a good idea to first threaten the good Friday agreement and now the electricity supply of a small island. 

If they are not rattled, then they are lunatics. Either that or Donald Trump is advising them on diplomacy. 

Just negotiate with Jersey around the very reasonable conservation rules like normal human beings.

Boris will be laughing in his porridge that the EU have given him an excuse to send warships. 

Absolute shambles.

The French fishermen are saying the goalposts have been moved , thats the issue. 

I dont think the EU are rattled, they are just doing what a bigger nations do and flexing their muscle. I don’t doubt they are pissed off with the UK leaving but they will get over it. 
Same would happen with the UK and independence. The UK would threaten Scotland given half the chance. Their disdain for us whilst part of the UK is bad enough, god knows what they would try when we leave. But they will move on in time too. 

We will both agree that is is indeed shite 😊
 

 

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Just now, TDYER63 said:

The French fishermen are saying the goalposts have been moved , thats the issue. 

I dont think the EU are rattled, they are just doing what a bigger nations do and flexing their muscle. I don’t doubt they are pissed off with the UK leaving but they will get over it. 
Same would happen with the UK and independence. The UK would threaten Scotland given half the chance. Their disdain for us whilst part of the UK is bad enough, god knows what they would try when we leave. But they will move on in time too. 

We will both agree that is is indeed shite 😊
 

 

I understand the concern from the French. What I'm saying is to go from being concerned about the consultation process pertaining to a fishing regulation (which means fuck all to hardly anybody) to cutting off electricity is disproportionate, dangerous and bizarre. 

You can always explain somebody's actions, bit it doesn't mean you need to say it's ok. 

Folk are just blinded by their hate of Brexit and Boris they can't find any fault in the EU. Even when it is egregious. 

From vaccine procurement to climbing down over the Irish hard border to threatening electricity cuts...the EU are not covering themselves in glory this year. 

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16 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

I understand the concern from the French. What I'm saying is to go from being concerned about the consultation process pertaining to a fishing regulation (which means fuck all to hardly anybody) to cutting off electricity is disproportionate, dangerous and bizarre. 

You can always explain somebody's actions, bit it doesn't mean you need to say it's ok. 

Folk are just blinded by their hate of Brexit and Boris they can't find any fault in the EU. Even when it is egregious. 

From vaccine procurement to climbing down over the Irish hard border to threatening electricity cuts...the EU are not covering themselves in glory this year. 

I know what you are saying and I agreed with you ( on the fishing, I  dont know enough about the GFA situation ) . There is absolutely no excuse for their actions. 
However FWIW I dont think the French had any real intention of cutting off electricity to Jersey,  its just an act of defiance. I lived in Jersey for 5 years and the 2 places are well connected. 

What I do find laughable is Boris Johnson’s hypocritical faux outrage, like the UK would never resort to bullying to get what they want. 

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6 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I know what you are saying and I agreed with you ( on the fishing, I  dont know enough about the GFA situation ) . There is absolutely no excuse for their actions. 
However FWIW I dont think the French had any real intention of cutting off electricity to Jersey,  its just an act of defiance. I lived in Jersey for 5 years and the 2 places are well connected. 

What I do find laughable is Boris Johnson’s hypocritical faux outrage, like the UK would never resort to bullying to get what they want. 

Yeah it's definitely played into Boris' hands and let him (cynically) take the moral high ground, which is quite astonishing.  And agree the French will likely need to climb down from their threats and Boris will celebrate that fact and claim victory. 

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2 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

It's only off the mark because it doesn't conform  to the narrative you (and others) tell yourself.

What's bizarre is threatening to put a border on Ireland, weeks after promising not to ever do that and now threatening to cut off electricity to a small island because of a fishing dispute. 

It was the UK that chose to push through Brexit and Coco the Clown (BJ) knew exactly what that meant for the border in Ireland but he did not give a jot. As for the French fishermen as I understand it had to await a permit to fish in the area and many were not given an answer by the date needed. As for threatening to turn off electricity that is not the way to go about things and neither is sending in warships.

Coco the Clown or mini Trump is an asshole of the highest degree and he shows himself up whenever he acts/reacts to matters where diplomacy is needed.

Edited by Caledonian Craig
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19 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

It was the UK that chose to push through Brexit and Coco the Clown (BJ) knew exactly what that meant for the border in Ireland but he did not give a jot. As for the French fishermen as I understand it had to await a permit to fish in the area and many were not given an answer by the date needed. As for threatening to turn off electricity that is not the way to go about things and neither is sending in warships.

Coco the Clown or mini Trump is an asshole of the highest degree and he shows himself up whenever he acts/reacts to matters where diplomacy is needed.

I'm glad you now agree with me, regarding the electricity threat, despite your initial protestations. 

I'm not quite sure whether you support the idea of imposing a hard border in Ireland to ensure a vaccine blockade can be effectively imposed. But regardless, the EU thankfully backed down from that particularly ludicrous threat. 

I know you want to rail against Brexit and the clown at every opportunity (which is fine), but be careful you don't end up supporting something indefensible in the process. 

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I heard the Jersey Prime Minister (Or whatever the top man is called over there) on the radio. He said that Jersey won't be blacked out, even if the French were to carry out their threat. Which he doesn't think they will anyway. Jersey has its own power station with easily enough capacity to supply all their needs. They just choose to buy French electricity because it is cheaper and greener than Jersey generating their own. So, the only repercussion would be a financial one.

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6 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

I'm glad you now agree with me, regarding the electricity threat, despite your initial protestations. 

I'm not quite sure whether you support the idea of imposing a hard border in Ireland to ensure a vaccine blockade can be effectively imposed. But regardless, the EU thankfully backed down from that particularly ludicrous threat. 

I know you want to rail against Brexit and the clown at every opportunity (which is fine), but be careful you don't end up supporting something indefensible in the process. 

Fair point however it was, as I said, Boris' actions that led to that situation. Remember that he agreed terms on a deal and then tried rewriting the deal months later in what he'd told the UK had been an oven-ready deal.

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23 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Eu officials unaware of the politics advised their intention re the border and within hours reversed it when they were informed of it by others EU officials and the Irish government 

unionists particularly the DUP swanned around Westminster drunk on power and hoped for a hard brexit hard border on the island despite being warned against by all parties . Thankfully the Irish government ably supported by the EU and latterly Joe Biden opposed it and so the Irish Sea border came into play . 

Its the least worst brexit option , the unionists can suck it up the NIP is going nowhere .  Look at it as taking one for the team that they profess locality to

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28 minutes ago, Newryrep said:

Eu officials unaware of the politics advised their intention re the border and within hours reversed it when they were informed of it by others EU officials and the Irish government 

unionists particularly the DUP swanned around Westminster drunk on power and hoped for a hard brexit hard border on the island despite being warned against by all parties . Thankfully the Irish government ably supported by the EU and latterly Joe Biden opposed it and so the Irish Sea border came into play . 

Its the least worst brexit option , the unionists can suck it up the NIP is going nowhere .  Look at it as taking one for the team that they profess locality to

Are you honestly saying that The European Commission President wasn't aware of the importance of the Ireland / Northern Ireland Protocol?  You are mis-characterising the decision as being made by faceless EU bureaucrats (of which, to be fair, there are literally 1000s). The reality is that it was a decision made, and then subsequently reversed (following condemnation from the UK, Irish and NI governments), at the highest echelon of the EU.

Bizarre that folk are unable to set their hatred of Brexit and the UK government aside, to see that the EU have (independently) made a series of shambolic and outrageous decisions this year.

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7 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Are you honestly saying that The European Commission President wasn't aware of the importance of the Ireland / Northern Ireland Protocol?  You are mis-characterising the decision as being made by faceless EU bureaucrats (of which, to be fair, there are literally 1000s). The reality is that it was a decision made, and then subsequently reversed (following condemnation from the UK, Irish and NI governments), at the highest echelon of the EU.

Bizarre that folk are unable to set their hatred of Brexit and the UK government aside, to see that the EU have (independently) made a series of shambolic and outrageous decisions this year.

MIchel barnier the chief negioator wasn’t consulted neither was the Irish government, I am content that it was cock Up rather than anything  and will never happen again  - Tony Connolly RTE Europe  correspondsnt has the full explanation 

 

The UK thought and still do that they can bully wee Ireland only for the Eu to fully back them and the icing on the cake was joe Biden ( very well informed on border politics) be8ng elected - like I said unionists can  suck it up as there is feck all they can do about it 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have no doubt that IndyRef2 will heavily involve the EU membership question being brought up by Better Together2. I'd like us to not get embroiled in the importance of EU membership too much. If unionists want to bring it up then meet it with the answer that it is for the matter of an independent Scotland to decide. Don't put all our eggs into the EU basket allowing Better Together2 to make outlandish claims that the waiverers will believe like 'Oh the EU won't have you' etc etc. 

As TDYER63 says I am easy about the EU. I'd sooner see Scotland independent in or out of the EU than shackled in this union.

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2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I have no doubt that IndyRef2 will heavily involve the EU membership question being brought up by Better Together2. I'd like us to not get embroiled in the importance of EU membership too much. If unionists want to bring it up then meet it with the answer that it is for the matter of an independent Scotland to decide. Don't put all our eggs into the EU basket allowing Better Together2 to make outlandish claims that the waiverers will believe like 'Oh the EU won't have you' etc etc. 

As TDYER63 says I am easy about the EU. I'd sooner see Scotland independent in or out of the EU than shackled in this union.

 

This is ever clearer, that we should not be boxed into a corner or put in a position where our fate is placed in the hands of the goodwill of others.

For a start there is plenty of debate and discussion to be had on which model of co-operation with our European neighbours, which could involve access to single market but not full membership, or EFTA, etc.

The main point is that indy Scotland is trhe only option that would allow the people of Scotland to decide.

I don't see why Yes should alienate Brexiters, when ex No pro EU switchers will know iScotland is their only reasonable chance to regain ties with EU any time soon.

And one big thing Brexit taught us was that people who wanted different kinds of Brexit still all voted for Brexit, even though it was (or should have been) obvious that not all of those versions could be delivered. They were prepared to get Leave won, and then take their chances with the post referendum negotiations afterwards.

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I think the important thing is to get back into the EEA. That can be achieved by joining EFTA, which, if I understand correctly, is easier to join than the EU and also allows for bilateral trade deals with third countries.  That could mean that trade with rUK would continue unhindered (although we'd still no doubt get ridiculous "England won't trade with us" scare stories from unionists).

What might still be an issue though, even with this scenario, is the border, as EEA membership includes the freedom of movement. 

It could be that EFTA membership suits Scotland better. In their manifesto Alba proposed joining the EEA as a priority in the event of independence but with a referendum on joining the EU being held at some point in the future.

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5 hours ago, scotlad said:

  That could mean that trade with rUK would continue unhindered (although we'd still no doubt get ridiculous "England won't trade with us" scare stories from unionists).

Yes that claim from unionists screams out desperation and delusion. The rest of the UK are scavenging around just now trying to patch up deals with anyone they can. I do believe Scottish Beef alone makes up 75% of what is labelled British Beef today. We supply a huge amount if renewable energy no doubt used by the UK and there are whisky trade and such-like to think about. And do unionists really think the UK government will hold all of the negotiating cards? One mention of Faslane and nuclear missiles having to find a new home and they'll deal.

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