The Brexit Thread

[ParisInAKilt]

26 minutes ago, kumnio said:

I don't believe they need to say that, its an absolute given what the SNPs goal is.

If you vote Labour wanting a better Scotland, you're a fool, if you vote Lib Dem wanting the same, well whats the point.

To avoid any doubt, I’d like them to make it clear that a vote for the SNP in 2021 is a vote for independence and detail how they achieve that goal. 
 

 

Murray seems pretty fed up with the SNP 

[ParisInAKilt]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

A damaging Brexit affecting Scotland and it's people

After the dust died down and in the cold light of the next day this was always going to be the key to winning Independence

The problem is when, not if, that happens

I wonder if the SNP are gambling on serious negative Brexit impact before the Scottish Parliamentary elections and running on a mandate of Independence and not a referendum

With the D'Hondt system that would be quite a gamble 

You and others will know better than me but if YES maintained their vote share from 2014 and added some EU and English voters disappointed with Brexit, would that get YES over the line? 

Agree that hoping for negative economic consequences of Brexit might not work out. 

[kumnio]

13 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

To avoid any doubt, I’d like them to make it clear that a vote for the SNP in 2021 is a vote for independence and detail how they achieve that goal. 
 

 

Murray seems pretty fed up with the SNP 

They can’t do that, as they are unlikely to get over 50% of the vote. The unionists could then use it as a stick to beat them with. There are some supporters of other parties, who will vote Yes, but never vote SNP. 

[Caledonian Craig]

People like Craig Murray and thplinth are totally missing the independence point here.

Independence is about Scotland having freedom from the shackles of Westminster. A chance to choose our own governments. A chance to decide what trade deals to sign and with which countries. A chance to choose our own path in this world. It has Jack to do with supporting the SNP or loathing the SNP. You either fully support independence and vote yes unequivocally or vote no or abstain in which case you are adding support to remaining locked into this decrepit union and supporting being under the thumb of Westminster rule forever kowtowing to a government 300 miles away giving them a free reign as our masters to do as they will with Scotland as their own personal toy.

The SNP are merely the main political voice with clout pushing for independence. I seriously have to wonder where the independence issue would be on the agenda without the SNP making the rallying call. I see no other political party standing up for independence for Scotland. Heck if the SNP had not come to prominence we'd have a Labour government and we know how they feel about independence.

Like I say - fine if you want to hate or lose trust in the SNP but saying you will vote no or abstain because of it is pretty damned foolish. It is akin to saying you refuse to die but then take a gun and blow your brains out.

[thplinth]

12 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

you and like minded folk hold the key to independence, my mother fits into that bracket also, previous yes voters who now thinks they would vote no. Whether you want to admit this or not, the snp are very good strategists, they understand there are portions of yes voters like yourself, i believe(hope to god am right) when it comes to voting folk like yerself,  knowing that they hold the balance of power will hopefully see past sturgeon/EU an vote for self determination 

 

11 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

I think that fundamental change will only come with independence

 

8 hours ago, Jim Beem said:

Normally agree with most of your posts, especially the angry stuff 😂  saying that, I cant get my head around your train of thought here. I dont really care for the SNP, or any other party for that matter but would always vote Yes. Its not even a political thing. For me, independence is normal. This weird union, abortion of an agreement is as abnormal as it gets. Not being independent, for me, is a flat out global embarrassment

. 

 

6 hours ago, kumnio said:

Simple question, will you vote Yes or really vote No at the next referendum, because, sorry, I don't believe you. The only way, the absolute only way to get rid of the SNP is independence. 

Theres a fair bit of the SNP that Im not happy with, but I will always vote for them*, and always vote Yes. *unless something incredibly drastic happens

My views on the desirability of Independence have not altered.

I just cannot support the SNP anymore in its current incarnation with NS driving policy.

First off I seriously doubt if NS actually wants independence. I think she is more than happy with the way things are. That is her comfort zone and she will stay there.

Then if by some miracle NS did secure indyref2 (no doubt by agreeing to unfavourable terms / timing) I am certain with her leading the campaign we would lose it. 

But if by some miracle we got a YES result (say NS gets lucky and BREXIT turns out really fucking bad, (it wont IMHO)) then I foresee the nightmare where she gets to inflict all her ultra woke pish on Scotland in its crucial formative years. My view is the party that gets YES over the line will likely be in power for a the next decade running Scotland with no real political competition... it will come sure... but it will take 10 years IMO to materialize and maybe / probably longer. In the meantime people will cling to the SNP post YES (as frankly a lot of other scary shit will no doubt be happening). However I have now reached the point where I have lost trust in the SNP to do a good job post YES. Her head is full of mince and she will be in a position to really make an arse of it. Getting YES is not the whole battle, it has to be a success. If I am of the opinion NS would be a nightmare then it would be insane for me to vote for an outcome that put her in that position.

And then there was that recent Murray piece doing his Yes Minister script.... 

Incidentally during the AS years he had a strong No2 - Nicola. Where is that strong No2 person now? I often hear 'well who would you replace her with' as an argument for keeping her....  And I guess she and her cronies made sure AS was not coming back again...

Edited February 2, 2020 by thplinth

[Bonny79]

Would anyone want to join the euro currency? 

[aaid]

10 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

I think unless there’s an active referendum and campaigning I’d expect most people to forget about independence and just get on with things.

If the Tories have been able to block a referendum up to now, is there anything that can happen that will change that? 

That might be the case if the question of independence got put in a cupboard and only came out when there were a referendum or indeed elections but that's clearly not the case.

Since 2014 opinion polls have largely shown that support for and against independence has remained roughly unchanged until about a year ago when that gradually started a consistent shift towards Yes to the point where it's 50/50 and there's nothing to suggest that shift will stop any time soon and that's all without a referendum or indeed a long campaign election - the December GE was a snap election and that shift in opinion had started long before then when there was little prospect of an early election.

There's a Holyrood election next year which unless there's some major change of circumstances will be fought full and square on Independence and campaigning for that has already started.  If the pro-Indy parties can't win a majority of seats and a majority of the list vote then they won't win a referendum or at least can't guarantee winning one. 

The Tories have so far been able to block a referendum so far for a couple of reasons.  First of all, until very recently the Scottish Government haven't pushed for that and we're currently in the little political dance that you need to go through of formally requesting one, it being turned down and then the response - which we got on Friday. 

The other thing is that the Tory argument until now is that "there's no support for independence, no support for another referendum" by which they mean no majority support, not zero support, and until recently that's been the case.  If polls continue to reflect that over the few months then that argument falls away.   The other thing they do is to try and present it as the SNP just banging on and trying to use independence to deflect from their domestic record.   That's when support for a second referendum at least from organisations other than the SNP, such as Trades Unions, other political parties and parts of civic Scotland becomes important as then it can't be played as all being about the SNP.

Ultimately this all about politics.   

[aaid]

8 minutes ago, Bonny79 said:

Would anyone want to join the euro currency? 

Would anyone have to?

[Bonny79]

Just asking if people want to 

[thplinth]

.

Edited February 2, 2020 by thplinth

[thplinth]

(post moved it to the indy thread)

[Orraloon]

1 minute ago, thplinth said:

This is kinda weird. I just popped over to Wings and read this... I thought I was pissed off.

 

 

 

I think that he and some others could do with a well earned rest.

[kumnio]

3 hours ago, Bonny79 said:

Would anyone want to join the euro currency? 

Yes, I would. I’d prefer our own currency, but not against joining the euro. 

[Toepoke]

4 hours ago, Bonny79 said:

Would anyone want to join the euro currency? 

If we'd joined it back in 2000 our cash would be worth about 50% more in the international market today.

[Bonny79]

34 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

If we'd joined it back in 2000 our cash would be worth about 50% more in the international market today.

Bollocks 

[Barney Rubble]

1 minute ago, Bonny79 said:

Bollocks 

Proof Mr Economist?

[Bonny79]

Thank fk we didn't join the euro currency.  I think everyone could agree with that.! 

[Barney Rubble]

Just now, Bonny79 said:

Thank fk we didn't join the euro currency.  I think everyone could agree with that.! 

No.

Show me your evidence why please.

[Bonny79]

Euro currency has caused nothing but trouble.  Look at Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal.  

 

Bad news even if in hindsight we might have been 'alright"  

 

Plus.. Looking forward to these new 50p s😍

Edited February 2, 2020 by Bonny79

[Barney Rubble]

26 minutes ago, Bonny79 said:

Euro currency has caused nothing but trouble.  Look at Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal.  

 

Bad news even if in hindsight we might have been 'alright"  

 

Plus.. Looking forward to these new 50p s😍

Is that the sum total of your evidence?

[Bonny79]

That not enough?  Avoid avoid avoid is the loud and clear message and your looking for positives? 

Madness

[Caledonian Craig]

I wonder how many thousands of pounds were wasted on the 31st October coins? They made hundreds and thousands of pounds worth of 50p for 31st of October exit but they needed to scrub them, melt them down and remake them. What a waste of money over pure shite.

[Lairdyfaeinverclyde]

31 minutes ago, Bonny79 said:

Euro currency has caused nothing but trouble.  Look at Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal.  

 

Bad news even if in hindsight we might have been 'alright"  

 

Plus.. Looking forward to these new 50p s😍

Is your life that sad that you look forward to a new coin coming out?  

[vanderark14]

Edit - No point engaging with an ignorant fool

Edited February 2, 2020 by vanderark14

[Bonny79]

28 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Edit - No point engaging with an ignorant fool

Good advice. I won't