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The Brexit Thread


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4 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

One thing I would say to your dad Hampden Loon is that a vote for the Tories is a vote against independence. Lets suppose the SNP intend using success at the next GE to say they have a mandate well Westminster tends to prefer looking at vote share. Your dad's vote will be seen as a vote for the union helping to boost unionist part's vote share and working against a push for independence.

On the other hand, maybe we have more chance of getting a referendum if they think they are going to win it. Maybe we should all vote Tory just this once to lull them into a false sense of security?;)

 

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1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

On the other hand, maybe we have more chance of getting a referendum if they think they are going to win it. Maybe we should all vote Tory just this once to lull them into a false sense of security?;)

 

Me? Vote Tory? I'd sooner be strapped down and forced to watch the 1966 World Cup Final on repeat loop. :blink:

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6 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Your question didn't come over confrontational at all. If you want to see what confrontational looks like you don't have to look far.:lol:

My point is that the SNP manifesto didn't say "we'll give you another indyref if you return enough of our MPs to Westminster". It said something like "we will have another indyref if there is a material change in circumstances like leaving the EU against our will". We haven't left the EU yet so no change in circumstances. No mandate for another Indyref. If the Tories win this election we will leave the EU one way or another, eventually. That's what folk think needs to happen before we can think about another indyref.

It's perfectly logical to do something you don't like, in the hope that something better will happen later on. It's like working hard so that you can retire early. Or, offering to do the dishes because you think it improves your chances of getting your hole. Common sense really. 

 

But this would seem like they’ve done the dishes a few times then have taken the hump at not getting their hole off of the back of it so think it is a good idea to shag their wife’s uglier sister in the hope it results in the reaction they’re wanting next time!!  Playing with fire if you ask me and pretty much why we bought a dishwasher.    

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7 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

But this would seem like they’ve done the dishes a few times then have taken the hump at not getting their hole off of the back of it so think it is a good idea to shag their wife’s uglier sister in the hope it results in the reaction they’re wanting next time!!  Playing with fire if you ask me and pretty much why we bought a dishwasher.    

 

See, now we are getting somewhere. It's fairly obvious that you can see how folk might think it was worth a try. It might not have worked but you thought it was worth a go. Surprised you didn't get your independence back though.

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5 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

In the space of two hours i have been accused of being a unionist plant on here and asked if nicola sturgeon pays me to stand up for her on my face book feed 😂😂 if i come across like that to folk on my face book feed, god knows how some on here will perceived on theirs 🤔

Do you get paid for being a plant? I could do with the extra money. 

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1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

In the space of two hours i have been accused of being a unionist plant on here and asked if nicola sturgeon pays me to stand up for her on my face book feed 😂😂 if i come across like that to folk on my face book feed, god knows how some on here will perceived on theirs 🤔

You were not accused of being a plant. Go back and read it again?

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7 hours ago, Jim Beem said:

Pretty sure Hampden Loon has his finger on the pulse, in his circle at least which is all you can expect. I’d be cautious before dismissing him. 

 

Yes, the parties need to listen to what the punters are trying to say, even if they don't understand or agree why they are saying it. Never underestimate the frustration of someone who politically can't get their hole. 

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18 hours ago, WCTA said:

Bollocks. Absolute bollocks. You don’t “hate Tories with a vengeance” then give them your vote. If somebody tells you that then they never hated them at all in the first place.

That would be like Ormond suddenly marching up and doon the road in an orange sash. 😄

If somebody said to you that Scotland would get to the World Cup final if only you would go on an orange walk, you would be going "OK, let's go, where's me bowler hat and that big fuk off drum"

 

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27 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

If somebody said to you that Scotland would get to the World Cup final if only you would go on an orange walk, you would be going "OK, let's go, where's me bowler hat and that big fuk off drum"

 

OK so the analogy would be you go on the Orange March and so sicken the populace with a resurgence in divisive triumphalism that people would be turned off Unionism?

But that seems too tenuous and more likely to backfire. The media would be more likely take it that Orange style unionism was not, after all, on the wane. And that maybe an intriguing diversity of supporters were now getting behind Orangeism(?). That Orangeism was reaching out for support in unexpected quarters. And maybe they were misunderstood and needed a wee bit more airtime.... 

The reality was seen with a Scots Tory MP on TV last night - sorry, Conservative and Unionist party MP - repeating again that there is no appetite for Scottish independence, unchallenged by the interviewer. As long as Scots vote for Tories it is a vote for the Union and a signal that there is no appetite for independence. 

Edited by exile
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5 hours ago, Orraloon said:

If somebody said to you that Scotland would get to the World Cup final if only you would go on an orange walk, you would be going "OK, let's go, where's me bowler hat and that big fuk off drum"

 

Only Ormond can answer that one. 😎

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1 minute ago, killiefaetheferry said:

Aye well thank fuck that Perth cunt isnae on here anymore. He stalked me around the board for about 2 years when I was on nightshift.

The nerve of you to be 6 hours ahead of the gobby Yank cunt. 😂

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6 hours ago, exile said:

OK so the analogy would be you go on the Orange March and so sicken the populace with a resurgence in divisive triumphalism that people would be turned off Unionism?

But that seems too tenuous and more likely to backfire. The media would be more likely take it that Orange style unionism was not, after all, on the wane. And that maybe an intriguing diversity of supporters were now getting behind Orangeism(?). That Orangeism was reaching out for support in unexpected quarters. And maybe they were misunderstood and needed a wee bit more airtime.... 

The reality was seen with a Scots Tory MP on TV last night - sorry, Conservative and Unionist party MP - repeating again that there is no appetite for Scottish independence, unchallenged by the interviewer. As long as Scots vote for Tories it is a vote for the Union and a signal that there is no appetite for independence. 

Nail on the head.

A vote for a Scottish Tory is sacrilege - it really is. They are odious and that is being polite about them. We saw what they are over Brexit. First of all they voted with the rest of the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood to say they were against Brexit. Days later the Scottish Tories then voted with the Tory government to back the original Withdrawal Bill. Sorry but I'd sooner give my vote to one of any of the other parties than vote Tory.

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2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Nail on the head.

A vote for a Scottish Tory is sacrilege - it really is. They are odious and that is being polite about them. We saw what they are over Brexit. First of all they voted with the rest of the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood to say they were against Brexit. Days later the Scottish Tories then voted with the Tory government to back the original Withdrawal Bill. Sorry but I'd sooner give my vote to one of any of the other parties than vote Tory.

when politics become Dogma.

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BBC Scotland runs an NHS bad story daily for the last 5 years - despite NHS Scotland being the best performance wise in the UK

Unionist Politicians attack the SNP weekly with Scottish NHS bad stories - despite NHS Scotland being better than those in England, Wales and NI

Unionist media run with regular Scottish NHS bad stories despite NHS Scotland being the best in the UK

Tory Politicians attack the SNP regularly in Westminster regarding Scottish NHS performance - despite it being the best in the UK

Today Boris Johnson threatens to take the Scottish NHS under Westminster control - despite it being the best run NHS in the UK

Scottish Tories laugh with glee

Edited by Ally Bongo
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2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Nail on the head.

A vote for a Scottish Tory is sacrilege - it really is. They are odious and that is being polite about them. We saw what they are over Brexit. First of all they voted with the rest of the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood to say they were against Brexit. Days later the Scottish Tories then voted with the Tory government to back the original Withdrawal Bill. Sorry but I'd sooner give my vote to one of any of the other parties than vote Tory.

The SNP need to be the respectful custodians of the independence movement, respectful of all political wings (which you are clearly not) and not just the wank sock for one particular wing. You are political poison to the SNP with all your extreme anti-tory chat. You do not understand the concept of creating a broad political umbrella under which all the varied folk can come together to achieve a common goal. All you do is make folk think the SNP is brimming with raving left wing loon balls using it as a vehicle to resurrect their failed socialist dreams. The 'left' was so desperate to latch onto the Independence movement in 2014 it was glaring and now they are in deep. These folk are serial losers.

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11 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

BBC Scotland runs an NHS bad story daily for the last 5 years - despite NHS Scotland being the best performance wise in the UK

Unionist Politicians attack the SNP weekly with Scottish NHS bad stories - despite NHS Scotland being better than those in England, Wales and NI

Unionist media run with regular Scottish NHS bad stories despite NHS Scotland being the best in the UK

Tory Politicians attack the SNP regularly in Westminster regarding Scottish NHS performance - despite it being the best in the UK

Today Boris Johnson threatens to take the Scottish NHS back under Westminster control - despite it being the best run NHS in the UK

Scottish Tories laugh with glee

I just listened to that. It made me sick to the stomach. How any self respecting scot is willing to accept Westminster even suggesting to take control is beyond me, no matter what party is in scottish government. Johnson is an oafish , condescending bully. 

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2 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I just listened to that. It made me sick to the stomach. How any self respecting scot is willing to accept Westminster even suggesting to take control is beyond me, no matter what party is in scottish government. Johnson is an oafish , condescending bully. 

Aye, but according to some on here a vote for his party is the way for Scotland to further control it’s own affairs. 😒

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9 minutes ago, thplinth said:

The SNP need to be the respectful custodians of the independence movement, respectful of all political wings (which you are clearly not) and not just the wank sock for one particular wing. You are political poison to the SNP with all your extreme anti-tory chat. You do not understand the concept of creating a broad political umbrella under which all the varied folk can come together to achieve a common goal. All you do is make folk think the SNP is brimming with raving left wing loon balls using it as a vehicle to resurrect their failed socialist dreams. The 'left' was so desperate to latch onto the Independence movement in 2014 it was glaring and now they are in deep. These folk are serial losers.

I agree the anti tory chat is not at all helpful to the independence movement and we most certainly do need to create a broad political umbrella. 

But after listening to Johnson talking down to us like shit on his shoe it is understandable why some people detest them. Yes he was aiming his criticism at the SNP but in doing so he was also flexing his muscles and reminding us who is really in control of these so called devolved powers. 
 

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3 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

A vote for a Scottish Tory is sacrilege - it really is. They are odious and that is being polite about them. We saw what they are over Brexit. First of all they voted with the rest of the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood to say they were against Brexit. Days later the Scottish Tories then voted with the Tory government to back the original Withdrawal Bill. Sorry but I'd sooner give my vote to one of any of the other parties than vote Tory.

As I see it, the criticism of the Tories here is about their attitude to Scotland; their siding with Tory high command against Scotland's interests; their posturing in the sense of claiming to support Scotland's interests by being pro-EU, only to U-turn and fall in line behind their Brexiteer bosses, as soon as Johnson took over; and now parrot the line that Brexit is good for us, or at least, it's best got over with.

They are not even very good Unionists - they gave fighting talk about blood red lines in the north channel, as if it would be sacriligious to cut off Northern Ireland from the precious Union, and yet caved in as soon as Boris demanded it. Happy to sell NI down the river (in sense of detaching them from GB) while at the same time happy to hand NI a competitive advantage,  and so sell Scottish interests down the river.  

As I see it this is nothing to do with being right wing/left wing, or even Brexit/anti Brexit. It's about their supine and untrustworthy behaviour.

I have more respect for the Brexit party - they know what they want, they are firm about what they want and give everything they have to get it. So, in their own way, do the DUP. Even if I don't agree with all their policies. But in comparison the current crop of Scots Tories are worse than useless, not even reliable/staunch conservatives and unionists. 

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42 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I agree the anti tory chat is not at all helpful to the independence movement and we most certainly do need to create a broad political umbrella. 

But after listening to Johnson talking down to us like shit on his shoe it is understandable why some people detest them. Yes he was aiming his criticism at the SNP but in doing so he was also flexing his muscles and reminding us who is really in control of these so called devolved powers. 
 

I do agree that people - parties - and websites - representing the independence movement should be broad and inclusive, and ideally should not be slagging off right-leaning voters, No voters, Tory voters, Leave voters, etc. For example a pro-indy website that was all about Tory bashing or Yoon baiting would not convert many people. 

But I think in an open forum it's fair enough to call out the behaviour of politicians - as people here do for parties on all sides - when they behave in a way we think is harmful or contemptible. Especially when our beloved media fail to hold them to account. For example I have never heard any British journalist ask any Scots Tory about the NI blood red lines; just as I have never heard any journalist ask Gordon Brown (despite dozens of speeches and interviews) what happened to Devo Max/federalism; never in 5 years! 😒 

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