The Brexit Thread

[exile]

4 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

This snp coalition with the lib dems is a joke, I absolutely despise  that mob

I don't understand that move at all. Aside from being seen to help Johnson get what he wants, I don't see what it's in aid of, as the most likely way to gain leverage for independence is in a hung parliament especially with Labour leading. But this looks as if it could hand the Tories a GE majority on a plate. What is the point of SNP gaining seats if it's up against a 5 year Tory majority? 

[Caledonian Craig]

11 minutes ago, exile said:

I don't understand that move at all. Aside from being seen to help Johnson get what he wants, I don't see what it's in aid of, as the most likely way to gain leverage for independence is in a hung parliament especially with Labour leading. But this looks as if it could hand the Tories a GE majority on a plate. What is the point of SNP gaining seats if it's up against a 5 year Tory majority? 

The only reasoning behind it that I can see of benefit to the SNP is that it will (according to all polls) give them an extra 10 to 15 seats and a chance to prove they have a mandate from the Scottish people for another independence referendum.

[hampden_loon2878]

A strange time personally being a snp member, if i can draw a comparison it would be with heath ledger trying to capture the image of the joker in the dark knight, this had him isolate himself from friends to try capture the character, some blame this for his demise as he couldn’t get out of the dark place he found himself in, friends say he totally lost himself and consumed by the character , comparisons can be directed at the SNP hierarchy with their EU obsession.    

[Orraloon]

I can't see anything about a SNP/Libdim coalition. As far as I can see they have agreed on two things. That doesn't amount to a coalition in my book.

[irnbruman]

This SNP/Lib Dem proposed bill puzzled me at first and on first glance looks them just playing the same silly games as the Tories. Ian  Blackford looking a bit silly as the other night he was waffling about a winter election being no good with the cold and dark nights in Scotland.
However it seems as if a new bill with 9th December would prevent the EU withdrawal bill being discussed/passed before an election.

Then if tomorrows Tory vote is vetoed , the Tories might look a bit silly themselves rejecting a general election. All a wee bit of silly political games. But in the end the Tories will probs have a landslide in a GE with all the racist, xenophobic thick coonts down here just saying "I just want it done" - no matter how decimated their country will be in terms of jobs after Brexit. Specially all these silly fuckers in Sunderland when NIssan moves across the English Channel.

[exile]

1 hour ago, irnbruman said:

This SNP/Lib Dem proposed bill puzzled me at first and on first glance looks them just playing the same silly games as the Tories. Ian  Blackford looking a bit silly as the other night he was waffling about a winter election being no good with the cold and dark nights in Scotland.
However it seems as if a new bill with 9th December would prevent the EU withdrawal bill being discussed/passed before an election.

Then if tomorrows Tory vote is vetoed , the Tories might look a bit silly themselves rejecting a general election. All a wee bit of silly political games. But in the end the Tories will probs have a landslide in a GE with all the racist, xenophobic thick coonts down here just saying "I just want it done" - no matter how decimated their country will be in terms of jobs after Brexit. Specially all these silly fuckers in Sunderland when NIssan moves across the English Channel.

I still don't see the point though. Hand Johnson a GE at this stage, and the chances are he'll get a majority - even if propped up by Brexit party - he can then push through any EU deal he wants - or no deal. We could be out of the EU in January and staring down 5 fixed years of Tory rule and no indyref2. 

[irnbruman]

6 minutes ago, exile said:

I still don't see the point though. Hand Johnson a GE at this stage, and the chances are he'll get a majority - even if propped up by Brexit party - he can then push through any EU deal he wants - or no deal. We could be out of the EU in January and staring down 5 fixed years of Tory rule and no indyref2. 

I think that's going to happen anyway. For instance what happens if EU give extension to 31st Jan. Does parliament do fook all and wait to see if it can be extended beyond 31st Jan. I'm at a loss but think the eventuality will be a Tory majority and coming out with no deal. Possibly better doing a proper discussion of the withdrawal bill and sticking amendments into it - then Johnson has to withdraw it ? Who knows what's gonna happen.

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by irnbruman
mssprint

[Caledonian Craig]

Yes I would say the growing prospect, looking at polls lately, are that Tories will win a majority at the next GE. Corbyn is unelectable and feel tge media has done an effective hatchet job on him so people would sooner vote Tory unbelievably. 

For the SNP the aim should be to make their mandate to get IndyRef2 and hope the polls are accurate where they will pick up 10 to 15 seats at the next GE.

[ParisInAKilt]

3 hours ago, irnbruman said:

This SNP/Lib Dem proposed bill puzzled me at first and on first glance looks them just playing the same silly games as the Tories. Ian  Blackford looking a bit silly as the other night he was waffling about a winter election being no good with the cold and dark nights in Scotland.
However it seems as if a new bill with 9th December would prevent the EU withdrawal bill being discussed/passed before an election.

Then if tomorrows Tory vote is vetoed , the Tories might look a bit silly themselves rejecting a general election. All a wee bit of silly political games. But in the end the Tories will probs have a landslide in a GE with all the racist, xenophobic thick coonts down here just saying "I just want it done" - no matter how decimated their country will be in terms of jobs after Brexit. Specially all these silly fuckers in Sunderland when NIssan moves across the English Channel.

And most of the “racists” don’t even know they’ll be a minority in their own country in years to come, unless they die first ..

[Eisegerwind]

37 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

And most of the “racists” don’t even know they’ll be a minority in their own country in years to come, unless they die first ..

Care to explain that a bit more?

[ParisInAKilt]

1 hour ago, Eisegerwind said:

Care to explain that a bit more?

If current trends continue white British will be a minority, same with Ireland 

Edited October 27, 2019 by ParisInAKilt

[Eisegerwind]

23 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

If current trends continue white British will be a minority, same with Ireland 

What's your definition of 'British'.

[ParisInAKilt]

2 minutes ago, Eisegerwind said:

What's your definition of 'British'.

It’s not my definition, I’d need to check the report 

[Eisegerwind]

10 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

It’s not my definition, I’d need to check the report 

OK. I await the 'reports' definition.

[Ally Bongo]

48 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

If current trends continue white British will be a minority, same with Ireland 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_the_United_Kingdom

2011 Census

White or White British - 55,010,359 - 87.1%

Asian or Asian British  - 4,373,339 - 6.9%

Black or Black British - 1,904,684 - 3%

Mixed or Multiple - 1,250,229 - 2%

Other Ethnic Group - 580,374 - 0.9%

Gypsy - 63,193 0.1%

So unless there has been some dramatic shift in 8 years i'm guessing your report was comprised by the National Front ?

I'm no mathematician however for the 87% to become a minority i'd guess would take umpteen centuries unless whites become sterile 

[ParisInAKilt]

1 minute ago, Ally Bongo said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_the_United_Kingdom

2011 Census

White or White British - 55,010,359 - 87.1%

Asian or Asian British  - 4,373,339 - 6.9%

Black or Black British - 1,904,684 - 3%

Mixed or Multiple - 1,250,229 - 2%

Other Ethnic Group - 580,374 - 0.9%

Gypsy - 63,193 0.1%

So unless there has been some dramatic shift in 8 years i'm guessing your report was comprised by the National Front ?

I'm no mathematician however for the 87% to become a minority i'd guess would take umpteen centuries unless whites become sterile 

2066 was the year given 

[ParisInAKilt]

23 minutes ago, Eisegerwind said:

OK. I await the 'reports' definition.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/white-britons-could-be-minority-by-2066-2137329.html%3famp

[kumnio]

2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

And most of the “racists” don’t even know they’ll be a minority in their own country in years to come, unless they die first ..

Is this why you're against immigration and multiculturalism so much?

[ParisInAKilt]

Just now, kumnio said:

Is this why you're against immigration and multiculturalism so much?

That’s a complex question. I’m against anything that coerced, forced or that’s being used to divide and conquer people and unfortunately I suspect there’s a lot of that going on in Europe. Migrants / refugees etc are victims in all of this as well. But I’m not against immigration or multiculturalism per say. 

[Toepoke]

6 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

But I’m not against immigration or multiculturalism per say. 

That's just as well given that you've emigrated yourself.

Need to polish up your Latin though. 

 

[Caledonian Craig]

The EU has agreed to a flextension until the 31st of January 2020 for Brexit. If a deal is agreed before that then that date can be brought forward.

It is all a great mess really.

The Tories want a General Election with all polls showing they will increase their seat count and perhaps get a majority allowing them to push through whatever bills they want with regards to Brexit.

Labour do not want a General Election until No Deal is off the table and most polls suggest they could lose more seats than they'd gain.

The Lib Dems want a General Election but on terms including No Deal coming off the table and agreeing to a People's Referendum (well a GE would be as good as that anyway).

The SNP also want No Deal taking off the table but are keen for a General Election as all polls suggest they will gain between 10 to 15 seats in Scotland which they will show as a mandate for Indy Ref2.

As I see it an early December election makes sense for several reasons. It will allow voters to voice their opinion on the Brexit situation so would be a sort of People's Referendum. If the Tories do increase their seat count to a point of majority then surely the people have spoken and the Deal on the table will then get passed. If Labour get enough seats and parliament is hung then they can form a coalition government and would have time to put their own plans in to the EU for their own deal. I am certain the EU would be all ears given that Labour prefer a softer Brexit. A General Election would seem the most logical way to break the deadlock at Westminster.

 

[AlfieMoon]

The GE is now a gift to the Tories who are looking likely to get a majority. 

Angus MacNeill has been getting ripped in about the SNP backing this. Hard to disagree with him really. What on earth do the SNP (and Libs for that matter) gain other than the obvious winning of some additional seats that will effectively bring no additional power? In fact, they'll have even less power than they do now under the current hung parliament.

[Caledonian Craig]

4 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

The GE is now a gift to the Tories who are looking likely to get a majority. 

Angus MacNeill has been getting ripped in about the SNP backing this. Hard to disagree with him really. What on earth do the SNP (and Libs for that matter) gain other than the obvious winning of some additional seats that will effectively bring no additional power? In fact, they'll have even less power than they do now under the current hung parliament.

On the other side of the coin the option is?

Stumble along in this Hung Parliament with nothing getting resolved on the Brexit front which will most definitely happen. Sure the polls show that the Tories will strengthen their hand in winning more seats but if that is the will of the people then sobeit. The SNP are never going to have any swathe of power anyway in Westminster but a General Election allows the SNP to strengthen their hand on the IndyRef 2 front. Brexit will happen now of that I am sure but it is just a matter of what sort of deal it is.

Angus MacNeill is entitled to his opinion but what does he see changing by waiting? The Tories are strengthening their hand all of the time by coming out as the party pushing for what people voted for and that is not going to change by putting off a General Election - if anything their hand will strengthen even more. If we wait and Brexit will happen on the 31st of January 2020 the Tories will claim they were the ones to get Brexit done and their hand gets strengthened again.

[AlfieMoon]

48 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

On the other side of the coin the option is?

Stumble along in this Hung Parliament with nothing getting resolved on the Brexit front which will most definitely happen. Sure the polls show that the Tories will strengthen their hand in winning more seats but if that is the will of the people then sobeit. The SNP are never going to have any swathe of power anyway in Westminster but a General Election allows the SNP to strengthen their hand on the IndyRef 2 front. Brexit will happen now of that I am sure but it is just a matter of what sort of deal it is.

Angus MacNeill is entitled to his opinion but what does he see changing by waiting? The Tories are strengthening their hand all of the time by coming out as the party pushing for what people voted for and that is not going to change by putting off a General Election - if anything their hand will strengthen even more. If we wait and Brexit will happen on the 31st of January 2020 the Tories will claim they were the ones to get Brexit done and their hand gets strengthened again.

The only sensible option would have been to have a fully united opposition position (SNP, Libs, Lab, Green) so that we weren't handing Bojo exactly what he stands to gain most from. The Tories are the only party that stand to win anything from a GE (apart from maybe the Brexit party). 

If the alternative is for the opposition parties to work on amendments to the WA then they should do that. Granted that cross-collaboration to support an agreed position has been a complete and utter failure so far but it's got to be worth another go.   

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

The only sensible option would have been to have a fully united opposition position (SNP, Libs, Lab, Green) so that we weren't handing Bojo exactly what he stands to gain most from. The Tories are the only party that stand to win anything from a GE (apart from maybe the Brexit party). 

If the alternative is for the opposition parties to work on amendments to the WA then they should do that. Granted that cross-collaboration to support an agreed position has been a complete and utter failure so far but it's got to be worth another go.   

Like I have said the polls show the Tory vote share heading only in one direction - up. Brexit will go through on the 31st of January 2020 to much acclaim by the Tories and their vote share will swell further as a result. There is no prospect on the horizon of the Tory support (outwith Scotland) falling so I would see this as a chance to nip in now with a GE to stop Tories ending up with a massive majority as could very well happen if left until after Brexit. The benefit for the SNP is polls are healthy showing they could win 50+ seats giving them something of a mandate for IndyRef 2.