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The Brexit Thread


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So if I am following this, Johnson has just lost 3 votes, lost his majority, trashed a lot of his party, and shown up as useless at PMQ... but is still being touted in some quarters as a strategic genius, discovering the magic money tree, business as usual.

Imagine if Corbyn had purged 21 of his rebels, the mainstream media would be screaming that Stalisnism was at our door.

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Johnsons QT performance waa the worst Ive ever seen from any Prime Minister or Leader of the Opposition. Even Corbyn ran rings round him. He answered nothing .came out with some cringeworthy insults. He may be able to read a speech by his advisor but hes absolutely embarrasing when having to come out with his own retorts. Absolute fucking cretin..yet still loved by the English racist xenophobes. 

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11 hours ago, Clyde1998 said:

It makes you wonder what purpose Labour actually has in Scotland. The regional figures were SNP 39%; Con 20%; Lib 13%; Lab 11%; Grn 8%; Oth 9%.

It makes me wonder if they really still care about devolution (mibee they never really did). 

I get the impression they view the Scottish and Welsh parliaments as, at best, 'feeder clubs' for the parliament they really respect, Westminster. Otherwise, why would a purpotedly progressive party be so entrenched in its view of opposing political independence for Scotland?

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34 minutes ago, scotlad said:

It makes me wonder if they really still care about devolution (mibee they never really did). 

I get the impression they view the Scottish and Welsh parliaments as, at best, 'feeder clubs' for the parliament they really respect, Westminster. Otherwise, why would a purpotedly progressive party be so entrenched in its view of opposing political independence for Scotland?

That's certainly a big part of Labour's problem in Scotland, they've always - with a couple of notable exceptions - viewed Westminster as more important than Holyrood and so anyone with talent and ambition would see Westminster and not Holyrood SNP he place to be,

It was an open secret that they considered their Scottish MPs to be the A team and MSPs to be the B team.  Those chickens came home to roost in 2011 when they lost the bulk of their front bench and ended up with the current bunch of non-entities, who were essentially list placemen and women who were never expected to be elected.

 

 

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BBC now becoming desperate. Trying to sow a seed of doubt that the SNP may break with the other opposition parties and go for an early election i.e giving Johnson a way out of his own mess. Why on earth would this ever be the case - the main aim is to avoid no-deal Brexit - BBC again bidding to their master's tune.

Edited by irnbruman
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3 minutes ago, irnbruman said:

No sign of Jeremy Hunt these days - doesn't seem to be doing any interviews keeping a low profile. I actually think Boris will resign rather than ask the EU for an extension.

Some rumours that Gove's getting ready to knife Boris again. 

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Its really pissing me off watching the BBC and Sky News persisting with querying why the opposition don't want an election till after end of October. Its blatantly fucking obvious its a desperate Tory game and any opposition would be absolutely mental to vote for it just now. Far more fun just watching Johnson stew. But a bit more sinister seeing the media trying to assist the Tories as much as possible.  

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2 hours ago, irnbruman said:

Its really pissing me off watching the BBC and Sky News persisting with querying why the opposition don't want an election till after end of October. Its blatantly fucking obvious its a desperate Tory game and any opposition would be absolutely mental to vote for it just now. Far more fun just watching Johnson stew. But a bit more sinister seeing the media trying to assist the Tories as much as possible.  

This. I've stopped watching BBC news as  it just does my head in. 

I know we probably all watch the version of the news that best fits our mind-frame, much like buying a newspaper,  but news coverage at the BBC, and to a lesser extent ITV and Sky, is dreadful. Blatantly partisan.

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8 minutes ago, Padre Andrew said:

This. I've stopped watching BBC news as  it just does my head in. 

I know we probably all watch the version of the news that best fits our mind-frame, much like buying a newspaper,  but news coverage at the BBC, and to a lesser extent ITV and Sky, is dreadful. Blatantly partisan.

I work at night so been watching the daytime shenanigans with interest this week - sky news more entertaining but inch of salt. If I want a proper version of the news its Channel 4 for me .

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18 hours ago, irnbruman said:

Johnsons QT performance waa the worst Ive ever seen from any Prime Minister or Leader of the Opposition. Even Corbyn ran rings round him. He answered nothing .came out with some cringeworthy insults. He may be able to read a speech by his advisor but hes absolutely embarrasing when having to come out with his own retorts. Absolute fucking cretin..yet still loved by the English racist xenophobes. 

Even putting aside being a Tory and Brexiteer - that is, aside from the actual politics - his performance so far as a politician, at least in parliament has been awful, you could almost imagine the thinking Tories thinking, er, did we vote in the right guy? Yesterday was an embarrassing car crash yet the media tend to just broadcast his pithy soundbites out of context (like calling Corbyn a chicken), which may be enough for the majority of people who are not interested in politics or what a PM is supposed to do at PMQ (answer questions not hurl insults) but just want to get out the EU. Corbyn was robust and persistent and scored hit after hit, which the whole of Parliament must know, but it's the chicken that ends up on the front page of the Sun.

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2 minutes ago, exile said:

Even putting aside being a Tory and Brexiteer - that is, aside from the actual politics - his performance so far as a politician, at least in parliament has been awful, you could almost imagine the thinking Tories thinking, er, did we vote in the right guy? Yesterday was an embarrassing car crash yet the media tend to just broadcast his pithy soundbites out of context (like calling Corbyn a chicken), which may be enough for the majority of people who are not interested in politics or what a PM is supposed to do at PMQ (answer questions not hurl insults) but just want to get out the EU. Corbyn was robust and persistent and scored hit after hit, which the whole of Parliament must know, but it's the chicken that ends up on the front page of the Sun.

I thought his performance in Parliament was bad but jeez his address to the nation from the police training centre in Wakefield was even worse. It is unbelievable that huge swathes of England support this buffoon.

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6 hours ago, irnbruman said:

BBC now becoming desperate. Trying to sow a seed of doubt that the SNP may break with the other opposition parties and go for an early election i.e giving Johnson a way out of his own mess. Why on earth would this ever be the case - the main aim is to avoid no-deal Brexit - BBC again bidding to their master's tune.

They should be considering that option. If they don't even consider it, they are not doing their job. They would need to get something very big in return though.

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6 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

They should be considering that option. If they don't even consider it, they are not doing their job. They would need to get something very big in return though.

Like consent to indyref2?  Or agreeing a GE majority for SNP being a direct mandate for independence? The problem is no one could trust them to honour it.

I'd have thought they would need to get it in written into law before agreeing it, which the Tories would never do, as how could they go into a GE saying "vote for us, we will deliver Brexit for England but to hell with the union"? 

Otherwise, to side with the Tories to bring on an election that could put the Tories in power for 5+ years does not look good, they'd need to be certain it was the last act of a Scottish party at Westminster before the break-up of the UK. 

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9 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

They should be considering that option. If they don't even consider it, they are not doing their job. They would need to get something very big in return though.

Let's say - for argument's sake -'that Johnson said "support us in calling an election and we'll agree to a second IndyRef" would you actually trust him to deliver on that promise after the election?

All the oppositon parties should hold off on holding an election until after Johnson's forced to get the extension or refuses to do it and resigns.  That's when they'll have maximum advantage  

 

 

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18 minutes ago, irnbruman said:

I thought his performance in Parliament was bad but jeez his address to the nation from the police training centre in Wakefield was even worse. It is unbelievable that huge swathes of England support this buffoon.

As some have pointed out, its' the "optics" - all the public will see is 

EDtvOQkXUAAoezx?format=jpg&name=small

= PM standing firm, looking resolute about law and order

and that he would rather "die in a ditch" than betray Brexit

 

 

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9 minutes ago, aaid said:

Let's say - for argument's sake -'that Johnson said "support us in calling an election and we'll agree to a second IndyRef" would you actually trust him to deliver on that promise after the election?

All the oppositon parties should hold off on holding an election until after Johnson's forced to get the extension or refuses to do it and resigns.  That's when they'll have maximum advantage  

 

 

Spot on

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24 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

They should be considering that option. If they don't even consider it, they are not doing their job. They would need to get something very big in return though.

Completely disagree. If they give Johnson a way out of his dilemma it would be disastrous for the SNP. Would see the revival of Scottish Labour.

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On 9/4/2019 at 8:02 AM, Toepoke said:

Did they not put Yes in the lead in 2014?

Make you wonder how much of an arse of things the UK government need to make before people start to seriously consider independence... 

 

I sadly think this Brexit fiasco is likely to put some people off independence rather than encourage them, at least in the short term.

Most people are sick to the back teeth of it and for many I feel the thought of independence , and more upheaval ,  will be exhausting . One government is the same as another to a lot of people and they just cant be arsed. 

If there is a real noticeable decline in the country which can directly be attributed to Brexit there is a chance, but as others have mentioned , timing is paramount.  

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