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1 hour ago, antidote said:

It was a well known fact that Cameron was practically begging world leaders and his banking friends to get involved. 

Of course France and Spain had their own breakaway problems and I wouldn’t say the world’s establishment was against Scottish independence.

UK Banks had a lot to loose if Scotland went independence at that time the pound would have plummeted and England’s economy, on its own, wouldn’t have looked that rosey. They had a vested interest to keep the status quo to protect their English interests. 

I understand where you’re coming from, but we’re dealing with two different analogies here. Scotland being overwhelmingly ruled by Westminster is not the same as the uk being in the Eu. 

Have a nice day I’m off to the pub soon 😉

I know it’s not the same, I’ve said it’s different but both are political unions and I’m not sure why you’re playing down the level of opposition worldwide towards Scottish independence. It went way beyond Westminster politicians and the UK banks. 

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9 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Wasn’t the Iraq war in 2003?

It was. This was Operation Desert Fox. The 2003 Iraqi War again was chiefly carried out by US and UK forces with support from Indian, Australian and Polish forces (Poland were not in the EU at that time).

It is interesting that we keep hearing about this supposed EU Army but in recent history I have not seen it fighting in any wars.

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7 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

It was. This was Operation Desert Fox. The 2003 Iraqi War again was chiefly carried out by US and UK forces with support from Indian, Australian and Polish forces (Poland were not in the EU at that time).

It is interesting that we keep hearing about this supposed EU Army but in recent history I have not seen it fighting in any wars.

Maybe the “war” in Libya is a better example of EU countries getting in on the game along with the UK and US. 

As for an EU army, it wouldn’t surprise me if it happens in an offical capacity. 

We’re never told the true extent of what goes on anyway, nato in Yugoslavia, Syria etc. 

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There is as much chance of a muslim becoming Prime Minister never mind leader of the Tory Party than there is of James Kelly becoming First Minister of Scotland

He knows it

The Tories know it

The media know it

It's just a pure facade

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There are two ways for the UK to resist an EU army.  One,  veto  it,  as the EU won't override what UK govt says no to. Or failing that, leave the EU, since the EU won't stop UK leaving. 

Now imagine the Scots government tries to resist a UK army policy. One, it can always be overruled by the UK Govt. Two, its request to leave the UK will be turned down. 

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On 6/1/2019 at 11:09 AM, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes you are wrong. It was only UK and US forces involved in this travesty.

I

I was sure Australia did as well, so i checked and they were.  along with Denmark??WTF and Poland ... that was it....

 

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I see owner of the NY Jets and US ambassador to the UK Woody Johnson told Marr today that any trade deal with the USA will involve the NHS and to a lesser extent chlorinated chicked

I also presume the trademark of Scotch will be offski too

It's not as if we havent been told

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58 minutes ago, stocky said:

I was sure Australia did as well, so i checked and they were.  along with Denmark??WTF and Poland ... that was it....

 

The "coalition of the willing" Mind at the time folk were having meetings in the basement of the UN it was that bugged, it got ripped to shreds at the time, even folk like Dave Chapelle in America was doing skits satirising it.

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On 6/1/2019 at 7:04 AM, Caledonian Craig said:

It was. This was Operation Desert Fox. The 2003 Iraqi War again was chiefly carried out by US and UK forces with support from Indian, Australian and Polish forces (Poland were not in the EU at that time).

It is interesting that we keep hearing about this supposed EU Army but in recent history I have not seen it fighting in any wars.

Egypt ?

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Say we get Hard'ish Brexit and Scotland votes YES in indyref2 and rejoins the EU. That now means England has an unregulated border via Scotland with the EU. Anyone in the EU can go to Scotland and through it access England and her markets. That is not going to last long term. Then say the EU and rUK get in a trade spat and tariffs or whatever are applied by both sides and/or other punitive measures... Is there any other EU country that has so much of it exports and imports reliant on England. We share an island so this is not surprising but in the event of a serious trade dispute with rUK (probably as a result of malign indirect US influence) it is Scotland's economy that would be brutalized most by far. Also how tempting for rUK to punish us for breaking away. YES just does not seem likely down the road with a hard BREXIT. Makes the chances of indyref2 much higher but who cares about that if you lose it.

Then you get to what does independence actually means to most SNP minded folk. I think it is essentially now a vehicle for socialism to most and 'nationalism' is all but dead in name, or has become a dirty concept which is treated like a bad smell. So what I am really buying if I vote YES with the SNP likely at the helm for 10 years post YES at least. I am not really sure I like the look of it.

Edited by thplinth
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1 hour ago, thplinth said:

Say we get Hard'ish Brexit and Scotland votes YES in indyref2 and rejoins the EU. That now means England has an unregulated border via Scotland with the EU. Anyone in the EU can go to Scotland and through it access England and her markets. That is not going to last long term. Then say the EU and rUK get in a trade spat and tariffs or whatever are applied by both sides and/or other punitive measures... Is there any other EU country that has so much of it exports and imports reliant on England. We share an island so this is not surprising but in the event of a serious trade dispute with rUK (probably as a result of malign indirect US influence) it is Scotland's economy that would be brutalized most by far. Also how tempting for rUK to punish us for breaking away. YES just does not seem likely down the road with a hard BREXIT. Makes the chances of indyref2 much higher but who cares about that if you lose it.

Then you get to what does independence actually means to most SNP minded folk. I think it is essentially now a vehicle for socialism to most and 'nationalism' is all but dead in name, or has become a dirty concept which is treated like a bad smell. So what I am really buying if I vote YES with the SNP likely at the helm for 10 years post YES at least. I am not really sure I like the look of it.

There would be a regulated border.  Not possible to  keep an open border with rUK out of the EU, which is pretty much the problem with Ireland.  Maybe EFTA would make a difference although I'm fairly sure   There would need to be some sort of controls over movement due to rUK isolating itself from the world.  They are the problem , not us.

Regarding imports/exports to ruK, we have stuff they need and want; they have stuff we might need or want (but could probably source elsewhere).  An arrangement will be worked out.  We can't continue to make decisions based on whether or not the rUK will be upset - that would be a continuation of the current abusive relationship in which we find ourselves.

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2 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

How the Bannon, Trump, Farage, Brexit then Unionist morph develops for all to see ...............

Says a raging neocon loonball who posts dodgy links to justify his mental views. Take your head out of NS's arsehole for five minutes and you might be able to hold a grown up conversation. 

One trick pony plays its one trick for umpteenth time. Yawn.

Edited by thplinth
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18 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Trump is perhaps the most loathed politician on the planet and guess who he could work with? Two assholes in the form of Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage. That really says it all. Peas in a pod.

Appeals to his base and annoys the other side. Perfect really. 

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15 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Appeals to his base and annoys the other side. Perfect really. 

And what exactly is 'his base'? And why is he the most loathed US president I'd certainly say of all-time. It certainly ain't for his missionary work  or visionary thinking or innovations whilst in his post.

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6 hours ago, thplinth said:

 

Then you get to what does independence actually means to most SNP minded folk. I think it is essentially now a vehicle for socialism to most and 'nationalism' is all but dead in name, or has become a dirty concept which is treated like a bad smell. So what I am really buying if I vote YES with the SNP likely at the helm for 10 years post YES at least. I am not really sure I like the look of it.

If the SNP turn into a socialist party they won't get elected in Scotland, IMO. I don't think Scottish voters are any more socialist minded than anywhere else. At present I can't think of anyone anywhere near any position of power that I would describe as a socialist. Even at branch level I never hear anybody talking about socialism. I suppose it might depend on how we define socialism, right enough. I have heard both Salmond and Sturgeon described as lefties and as tartan tories. I don't think that they are either of those. 

It might just come down to what we think socialism is? Any SNP policies which you would describe as socialist?

 

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