The Brexit Thread

[bonny78]

Just now, phart said:

I'm not proud to be Scottish though. I had no agency in it.

Then why u voting for independence for Scotland if u don't give a sh1t. 

[phart]

3 minutes ago, bonny78 said:

Then why u voting for independence for Scotland if u don't give a sh1t. 

Who said anything about not giving a shit.

I'm just not proud cause of where i was born. What say did i have in it to have any pride? I did fuck all.

I think Westminster is too interested in killing and bombing folk so i want to remove myself from that.

[hampden_loon2878]

16 minutes ago, bonny78 said:

What about the British empire.  What about our way of life.   Could have been born somewhere else and not enjoyed the British way of life we all currently do

You need to refresh your knowledge on history and scots law, also look at the poverty levels in the uk compared to other european nations, if that is the backbone of your British pride then you may be in for a shock

[bonny78]

1 minute ago, phart said:

Who said anything about not giving a shit.

I'm just not proud cause of where i was born. What say did i have in it to have any pride? I did fuck all.

I think Westminster is too interested in killing and bombing folk so i want to remove myself from that.

Fine then. If current affairs in your country don't concern you then there's no point in you taking part in a referendum.

[bonny78]

1 minute ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

You need to refresh your knowledge on history and scots law, also look at the poverty levels in the uk compared to other european nations, if that is the backbone of your British pride then you may be in for a shock

Then why do people want to come to this great country from say Romania but not the other way round?   

We are still one of the largest economys in the world so that's something to be proud of.  

[aaid]

15 minutes ago, bonny78 said:

 

We are still one of the largest economys in the world so that's something to be proud of.  

 

Why do you think that's so important and is something to be proud of?

[bonny78]

5 minutes ago, aaid said:

 

Why do you think that's so important and is something to be proud of?

Cause if we were at the other end of the spectrum it would be shameful 

[Caledonian Craig]

Reasons of British pride?

During the Second Boer War (1899-1902), the British rounded up around a sixth of the Boer population - mainly women and children - and detained them in camps, which were overcrowded and prone to outbreaks of disease, with scant food rations.

Of the 107,000 people interned in the camps, 27,927 Boers died, along with an unknown number of black Africans. 

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When peaceful protesters defied a government order and demonstrated against British colonial rule in Amritsar, India, on 13 April 1919, they were blocked inside the walled Jallianwala Gardens and fired upon by Gurkha soldiers. 

The soldiers, under the orders of Brigadier Reginald Dyer, kept firing until they ran out of ammunition, killing between 379 and 1,000 protesters and injuring another 1,100 within 10 minutes. 

Brigadier Dyer was later lauded a hero by the British public, who raised £26,000 for him as a thank you.

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In 1947, Cyril Radcliffe was tasked with drawing the border between India and the newly created state of Pakistan over the course of a single lunch. 

After Cyril Radcliffe split the subcontinent along religious lines, uprooting over 10 million people, Hindus in Pakistan and Muslims in India were forced to escape their homes as the situation quickly descended into violence. 

Some estimates suggest up to one million people lost their lives in sectarian killings.

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Thousands of elderly Kenyans, who claim British colonial forces mistreated, raped and tortured them during the Mau Mau Uprising (1951-1960), have launched a £200m damages claim against the UK Government. 

Members of the Kikuyu tribe were detained in camps, since described as "Britain's gulags" or concentration camps, where they allege they were systematically tortured and suffered serious sexual assault. 

Estimates of the deaths vary widely: historian David Anderson estimates there were 20,000, whereas Caroline Elkins believes up to 100,000 could have died.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Between 12 and 29 million Indians died of starvation while it was under the control of the British Empire, as millions of tons of wheat were exported to Britain as famine raged in India.

In 1943, up to four million Bengalis starved to death when Winston Churchill diverted food to British soldiers and countries such as Greece while a deadly famine swept through Bengal. 

Talking about the Bengal famine in 1943, Churchill said: “I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits.”

[stocky]

16 minutes ago, bonny78 said:

Cause if we were at the other end of the spectrum it would be shameful 

There are more brits living and working abroad than any other nationality in Europe, ie more Brits in Spain that Romanians in UK.... 

I have no iissue with either, live and work where it suits you and your family best 

[aaid]

26 minutes ago, bonny78 said:

Cause if we were at the other end of the spectrum it would be shameful 

Okay, I'll be more specific.  Is correct to say that the UK is one of the world's biggest economies, in fact in overall GDP terms, I think it's the fifth.

However, there are three major economies in the world, USA, EU and China who between them account for about 62% of the world's GDP.  The U.K. On the other hand - 5th - accounts for around 3%.

So given you think its important to be part of a large economy and is something to be proud of, then I'd have thought it would be better to be part of the economy with 22% of the World's GDP - the EU - as opposed to the one with 3%. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by aaid

[phart]

57 minutes ago, bonny78 said:

Fine then. If current affairs in your country don't concern you then there's no point in you taking part in a referendum.

No one said this. Are you having problems parsing what is typed on here? Where is anyone talking about having no concern about current affairs?

Also what referendum? Your day-dreaming is bleeding into reality.

[bonny78]

11 minutes ago, aaid said:

Okay, I'll be more specific.  Is correct to say that the UK is one of the world's biggest economies, in fact in overall GDP terms, I think it's the fifth.

However, there are three major economies in the world, USA, EU and China who between them account for about 62% of the world's GDP.  The U.K. On the other hand - 5th - accounts for around 3%.

So given you think its important to be part of a large economy and is something to be proud of, then I'd have thought it would be better to be part of the economy with 22% of the World's GDP - the EU - as opposed to the one with 3%. 

EU isn't a democracy 

[aaid]

5 minutes ago, bonny78 said:

EU isn't a democracy 

Okay, in what sense isn't it a democracy?

[Barney Rubble]

21 minutes ago, bonny78 said:

EU isn't a democracy 

It was the last time I looked.

[bonny78]

16 minutes ago, aaid said:

Okay, in what sense isn't it a democracy?

A lot of unelected people in the troff.   

[bonny78]

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matthew-ellery/eu-referendum_b_9514608.html

[aaid]

1 minute ago, bonny78 said:

A lot of unelected people in the troff.   

Like the House of Lords then?

[bonny78]

6 minutes ago, aaid said:

Like the House of Lords then?

Yes 

[Rich NATA]

1 hour ago, bonny78 said:

Then why do people want to come to this great country from say Romania but not the other way round?   

It is not the only country state people emigrate to.

 

Furthermore, there are 5 million 'Brits' living and working outside of the UK.

 

I have met 'Brits' living and working in almost every country I have ever visited; including Eastern Europe.

 

 

 

[aaid]

8 minutes ago, bonny78 said:

Yes 

So by your own definition the UK isn't  a democracy either.  On that basis since not being a democracy isn't a factor, why not be part of the larger economy - the EU - than the much smaller one - the UK.

[thplinth]

Bit bemused at the SNP folk on here arguing about getting access to the 'biggest market, larger economy' etc... Last time I looked Scotland exported nearly twice as much to rUK than it does to all of the rest internationally. If this is your argument (be in a union with your biggest trading partner) then we aleady are numpties.

edit wow.

Scotland’s Exports in 2017

International	£32.4 billion	+£1.9 billion	+6.2%
…of which EU	£14.9 billion	+£1.7 billion	+13.3%
…of which Non-EU	£17.6 billion	+£0.1 billion	+0.8%
Rest of the UK	£48.9 billion	+£2.2 billion	+4.6%
Total (Int + RUK)	£81.4 billion	+ £4.1 billion	+5.2%

https://www2.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/Exports/ESSPublication

Edited May 21, 2019 by thplinth

[Och Aye]

The UK Government always said it would strive to continue trading with the EU and other countries around the world tho.  Best of both worlds for an independent Scotland? 

[hampden_loon2878]

15 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Bit bemused at the SNP folk on here arguing about getting access to the 'biggest market, larger economy' etc... Last time I looked Scotland exported nearly twice as much to rUK than it does to all of the rest internationally. If this is your argument (be in a union with your biggest trading partner) then we aleady are numpties.

edit wow.

Scotland’s Exports in 2017

International	£32.4 billion	+£1.9 billion	+6.2%
…of which EU	£14.9 billion	+£1.7 billion	+13.3%
…of which Non-EU	£17.6 billion	+£0.1 billion	+0.8%
Rest of the UK	£48.9 billion	+£2.2 billion	+4.6%
Total (Int + RUK)	£81.4 billion	+ £4.1 billion	+5.2%

https://www2.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/Exports/ESSPublication

Yes a weak argument indeed

[Ally Bongo]

2 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Yes a weak argument indeed

Thats because it's a straw man argument

[thplinth]

10 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

The UK Government always said it would strive to continue trading with the EU and other countries around the world tho.  Best of both worlds for an independent Scotland? 

So we would be in the EU when they might be having a big disagreement with England post BREXIT, our biggest export market (BY FAR), meaning we would have to impose tariffs and punitive measures on them as part of the EU, while hoping they just allow us to continue to export most of our exports to them untouched as usual? Is that your plan? If they shut down Scottish exports they could crash our economy overnight, way beyond any other country, the EU, the US blah blah... get real.