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The Brexit Thread


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19 minutes ago, thplinth said:

I could see Farage and Co doing very well in a future GE if that is how it pans out. Keep dismissing them as xenophobes and smearing them as racists...  see where it gets you.

They're not being dismissed as xenophobes and racist, they are xhenophobic and racist, fortunately for him there are plenty of those on this Island.

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21 minutes ago, thplinth said:

I could see Farage and Co doing very well in a future GE if that is how it pans out. Keep dismissing them as xenophobes and smearing them as racists...  see where it gets you.

For me it has nothing to do with how I or anyone else sees them. It is a matter of there being far too many dyed-in-the-wool Tories out there who will end up sticking with a party they have voted all of their lives come what may and the same goes for Labour voters. Sure they'll lose seats and some of them to Lib Dems or Brexit or Change Party. But I cannot see then getting into double figures in the next GE in terms of seats won. Look to UKIP for evidence of that.

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The SNP are getting perilously close to the point where being 'Independent' as part of a Farage's BREXIT UK is for all intents and purposes (far) more independent than the SNP's vision of an independent Scotland in the EU IMHO. All the arguments Farage makes, with regard to the UK v the EU, overlap with the arguments we make, with regards to Scotland v the UK. The SNP made Farage into an enemy and bizarrely fully went along with the UK unionist establishment line... but what if he wins? He is by far the most 'up-coming' leader the UK has at this point. I'd have him lead the BREXIT negotiations yesterday. The last two years have been building up a ferocious backlash I believe. Theresa May was absurdly shocking. The Tories and Labour fully deserve it.

Edited by thplinth
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Farage even if a million to one chance happened was ever to become the next PM (and there is zilch chance of that) would be no different to having a Tory or Labour PM. He'd still be on the look-out for his precious union and even more so in a UK out of Europe as he'd know deep down inside the UK would need all its own resources to survive the post-Brexit trade aftershocks. Anyone who thinks Farage would hand Scotland immediate independence or referendum are way off the mark.

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7 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Farage might just turn out to be our best chance of independence. We should not dismiss him.

He absolutely is at this point. Nor condemn him.

Our position should be... ok England is doing what they feel is in their best interests... should we not have the freedom to do the same?

6 minutes ago, phart said:

Farage is an enemy though. A lying demagogue with immense sway and nothing constructive to add to society.

I thought you were a proponent of not being partisan. 

Who is your 'side' phart if you have one and dont mind me asking?

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3 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Nigel Farage as PM would be a thousand times more likely than a May (or successor) or a Corbyn to grant indyref2. Farage would let us roll the dice.

Hmm with opinions like this I seriously doubt it:-

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/11/nigel-farage-campaign-scottish-independence-anti-englishness

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nigel-farage/this-argument-on-scottish-independence-heated/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29170924

 

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3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Hmm yet David Cameron was leader of the Conservative and Unionist Party and he granted indyref1.

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38 minutes ago, thplinth said:

I thought you were a proponent of not being partisan. 

Who is your 'side' phart if you have one and dont mind me asking?

Farage is a liar , who lies for political gain. he's a natural enemy of facts. If i'm a partisan for facts then so be it.

I don't have a side per se. But I know selfish liars aren't the sort of folk i want building countries.

 

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17 minutes ago, thplinth said:

You ever told a lie? It is not like we are in the hypermarket of ideal world leaders here... able to find the exact one we want. Beggars, choosers, etc.

Of course I have but that's false equivalency.

Plus who is pushing him so much anyway, far right shadow government?

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19 minutes ago, phart said:

Of course I have but that's false equivalency.

Plus who is pushing him so much anyway, far right shadow government?

Well saying he is a liar is not very specific. We are all liars to some degree was my point. More to the point are you implying that Farage is a greater liar than May, Corbyn, Sturgeon, or whoever leads the Liberals these days? If so I am happy with you being somewhat partisan... you are human after all. Plus if you can decide I am 'right' (on the political spectrum) can I similarly not decide you are whatever i decide you are? 

Edited by thplinth
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5 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Well saying he is a liar is not very specific. We are all liars to some degree was my point. More to the point are you implying that Farage is a greater liar than May, Corbyn, Sturgeon, or whoever leads the Liberals these days? If so I am happy with you being somewhat partisan... you are human after all. Plus if you can decide I am 'right' (on the political spectrum) can I similarly not decide you are whatever i decide you are? 

Yeah he is easily more dishonest than the people mentioned.

I've not decided anything like that. I wondered at who is pushing him, he gets a disproportionate amount of TV time , something is making that happen. I speculated the push might be from right-wing shadow government, which we know exists from All the Colin Wallace stuff, and also Fairlie telling us on here about Polaris and the consul getting money to oppose independence.

I don't even believe in the 1 dimensional political spectrum. when we live in a 4 D wold at least. I cannot be drawn on one line.

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Easily. How can you say that?

The only times I have ever listened to Farage (on youtube) is when he was giving various speeches at the EU parliament. I cant say I disagreed with anything he said about the EU's 'problems'. 

 

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Politicians that are not in power will spin a bit more than those that are

Politicians that are not in power and will never be in a position of power to deliver on their promises will lie like fuck

The EU has problems but none of the UK's ills are because of those problems

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1 hour ago, thplinth said:

Easily. How can you say that?

The only times I have ever listened to Farage (on youtube) is when he was giving various speeches at the EU parliament. I cant say I disagreed with anything he said about the EU's 'problems'. 

 

Well apart from May there is no contest in the lying stakes. May has checks and balances on her lies through peer review each week as do the rest of them. Farage can say what he wants and has done.

He's the cunt that says Trump grabbing by the pussy  is "Alpha-Male Boasting" but when someone gets groped in Germany it's suddenly time to chuck everyone out.

A total demagogue with no substance. Getting pushed from nowhere and we're meant to listen to him. Fuck that.

" The biggest racism I’ve seen in British politics is happening north of the border with the SNP, where some of the anti-English hatred is reaching a truly astonishing level and I would think that if the BBC are worried about racism that’s where they ought to be looking... T‎he SNP are openly racist. The anti-English hostility and the kind of language that is used about and towards English people is totally extraordinary.” "

Edited by phart
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4 hours ago, phart said:

Well apart from May there is no contest in the lying stakes. May has checks and balances on her lies through peer review each week as do the rest of them. Farage can say what he wants and has done.

He's the cunt that says Trump grabbing by the pussy  is "Alpha-Male Boasting" but when someone gets groped in Germany it's suddenly time to chuck everyone out.

A total demagogue with no substance. Getting pushed from nowhere and we're meant to listen to him. Fuck that.

" The biggest racism I’ve seen in British politics is happening north of the border with the SNP, where some of the anti-English hatred is reaching a truly astonishing level and I would think that if the BBC are worried about racism that’s where they ought to be looking... T‎he SNP are openly racist. The anti-English hostility and the kind of language that is used about and towards English people is totally extraordinary.” "

Bit more than someone getting groped in Germany no?

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16 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Bit more than someone getting groped in Germany no?

There has been loads more incidents a lot much worse than groping. Farage jokes about the groping though and reacts with a collective punishment in the other. He was making jokes about saying he will tell Trump not to bother Grabbing May and puerile shit like that.

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