ParisInAKilt Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 The Tories aren’t even a Conservative party, what do they conserve? Pretending to be tough on immigration near an election. The main parties have way more in common than they’d be willing to admit. If a fairer country means more government and a bigger welfare state then its just gonna be Westminster light. I hope every voter who voted to leave the EU votes ukip at the next election though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: I hope every voter who voted to leave the EU votes ukip at the next election though. Ironic considering Cameron held a referendum for the fear of exactly that happening England is fucked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Ironic considering Cameron held a referendum for the fear of exactly that happening England is fucked You can’t blatantly ignore voters without consequences or maybe you can, with first past the post I can’t see much changing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 hours ago, thplinth said: Putting aside the joys autocorrecting spellcheckers for a second. You’d prefer English spelling? How independent. At least the yanks gained their independence from the English. You can’t even leave the confines of their spelling. Centre is from French innit? The auld alliance n'at no'.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Reading about this vote in the Scots Parliament about stopping Brexit. Even if May had reached out to the Scottish Government, the SNP could not have agreed anything with the Tories anyway. It would have been political suicide for the SNP. Tartan Tories x1000. There is no Brexit across parties other than Labour and the DUP. Thinking about it, every turn of this has been the fault of May calling that election early and losing the majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: You can’t blatantly ignore voters without consequences or maybe you can, with first past the post I can’t see much changing Its been happening on a regular basis so I don't see why all of a sudden ignoring the voters has become an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, Lamia said: Its been happening on a regular basis so I don't see why all of a sudden ignoring the voters has become an issue. I think it’s easier to hide it with regular elections but with a single issue referendum not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: I think it’s easier to hide it with regular elections but with a single issue referendum not so much. Not so sure about that to be honest. Ask anyone if they think politicians deliver what they say and I think you will struggle to find any that will say yes. People are well aware that politicians don't deliver on many occasions so I honestly don't see why this would make any difference. People have already lost trust and faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 11 minutes ago, Lamia said: Not so sure about that to be honest. Ask anyone if they think politicians deliver what they say and I think you will struggle to find any that will say yes. People are well aware that politicians don't deliver on many occasions so I honestly don't see why this would make any difference. People have already lost trust and faith. Aye maybe that’s more how it is. Still doesn’t stop the majority playing along and voting though. People still have faith in the system, even if they know it’s corrupt and politics is done to us, not for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Just now, ParisInAKilt said: People still have faith in the system, Do they really? Honestly? That isn't really my experience when I listen to people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Lamia said: Do they really? Honestly? That isn't really my experience when I listen to people. They still vote, pay taxes, follow the rule of law and generally believe in having a government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Just now, ParisInAKilt said: They still vote, pay taxes, follow the rule of law and generally believe in having a government. Less and less vote...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: They still vote, pay taxes, follow the rule of law and generally believe in having a government. I do all that but I have no faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Just now, Lamia said: Less and less vote...... The EU referendum was nearly 80% turnout if you believe the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Lamia said: I do all that but I have no faith Maybe faith isn’t the right word. I’ll never vote again but I play the game otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: The EU referendum was nearly 80% turnout if you believe the result. Yeah they did then but then point being I don't think people expect politicians to deliver on what they promise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Lamia said: Yeah they did then but then point being I don't think people expect politicians to deliver on what they promise Maybe not on everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 59 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Aye maybe that’s more how it is. Still doesn’t stop the majority playing along and voting though. People still have faith in the system, even if they know it’s corrupt and politics is done to us, not for us. I agree with Lamia in that most folk generally do not have faith that politicans will deliver. I think people simply vote out out of habit or fear that the party they perceive to be their political adversary will get into power. 59 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: They still vote, pay taxes, follow the rule of law and generally believe in having a government. What would your alternative to a government be ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 42 minutes ago, TDYER63 said: I agree with Lamia in that most folk generally do not have faith that politicans will deliver. I think people simply vote out out of habit or fear that the party they perceive to be their political adversary will get into power. What would your alternative to a government be ? It’s a good question. I’ve read some books on Voluntarism but it doesn’t seem achievable or realistic. As small a government as possible would be ideal hence wanting independence from the UK and EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 36 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: It’s a good question. I’ve read some books on Voluntarism but it doesn’t seem achievable or realistic. As small a government as possible would be ideal hence wanting independence from the UK and EU. This is the thing. Nobody likes governments but no-one has any better ideas. It would be anarchy without some sort of control. I think a government formed from individuals unaligned to a political party would be better. I have said this before but i am fed up of politicians continually slagging off each others party. They spend more time doing that than they do achieving something. You may get a more diverse government this way and if individuals couldnt hide behind decisions of a party they could be held more accountable. I have no idea how this would actually work right enough, thats why I am no a politician 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark frae Crieff Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 With voting intention i would rather have an ability to vote out those i would not like in power. At this moment we do not have that ability so the sooner we can will be a blessing or hinderance but at least it will be our blessing or hinderance. What we have in London is a poisonous arena that has never been fit for purpose and never will. Europe may not be a utopia but at least everyone has an equal say and if you look at how they have covered Ireland's corner you can see that it works far better than anything from the palace of Westminster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, TDYER63 said: This is the thing. Nobody likes governments but no-one has any better ideas. It would be anarchy without some sort of control. I think a government formed from individuals unaligned to a political party would be better. I have said this before but i am fed up of politicians continually slagging off each others party. They spend more time doing that than they do achieving something. You may get a more diverse government this way and if individuals couldnt hide behind decisions of a party they could be held more accountable. I have no idea how this would actually work right enough, thats why I am no a politician 🙄 There’s a great quote from Thomas Jefferson on elective despotism. “The time to guard against corruption and tyranny, is before they shall have gotten hold of us. It is better to keep the wolf out of the fold, than to trust to drawing his teeth and talons after he shall have entered.” I think the vast majority of people would agree with your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: There’s a great quote from Thomas Jefferson on elective despotism. “The time to guard against corruption and tyranny, is before they shall have gotten hold of us. It is better to keep the wolf out of the fold, than to trust to drawing his teeth and talons after he shall have entered.” I think the vast majority of people would agree with your post. 👍 Theresa has said she will go if her deal passes https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-quit-resign-brexit-deal-pass-conservative-leader-contest-prime-minister-tory-a8842706.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 On 3/26/2019 at 1:06 PM, Ally Bongo said: it's assumed she will announce the date of her resignation Aubrey AllegrettiVerified account @breeallegretti Theresa May will address Tory MPs at the 1922 committee at 5pm tomorrow. Confirmed She will not be PM for next stage of negotiations meaning if her deal gets through she walks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 10 hours ago, TDYER63 said: Having a social conscience does not necessarily mean you are a socialist, in the same way being a Tory does not necessarily mean you are a rabid right wing capitalist. ... I want a fairer country and cannot see that happening under any government with current Tory values. People call themselves a socialist and because of it assume they have a moral monopoly over all others. They are bit like born again Christians in this regard (and equally boring). I have a huge fucking news flash for you, everyone left right up down wants to see things get better for poor people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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