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The Brexit Thread


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2 hours ago, Dave78 said:

The only people talking about it down here are Sinn Fein. They've been pressuring Fine Gael and Fianna Fail into pushing for it, but they're not concerned with it (reunification has never been a priority for them).

There does seem to be support for it among voters though - https://www.thejournal.ie/united-ireland-poll-no-deal-brexit-january-2019-4459944-Jan2019/

 

 

Interesting, Dave. I take it you would vote for a reunified Ireland? Or tell me to mind my own ;)

I was in Drogheda a few years back, and chatting with some folk in a pub and most said it would be great, but weren't sure of the baggage that might come with it, etc. That was 10 years ago though and Brexit wasn't even a pipe dream. 

Still think the DUP being pro-Brexit is the ultimate proverbial turkey and Christmas scenario. Imagine a lot of small u unionists, Alliance, Greens, UUP types like Mike Nesbitt now seriously considering or at least discussing what may happen next (if it's a No Deal etc). 

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4 hours ago, Orraloon said:

The UK need a border too. 

The EU don't want a No Deal Brexit and they don't want a border. As far as the EU are concerned they have already agreed a deal with the UK government which does not require a border. The UK are in the process of reneging on that deal and at the same time not coming up with any alternative.

 

Did the UK ever agree to the deal?  The backstop might work as long as a completion date is agreed. Otherwise brexit is never going to be achieved in the true sense of the word. 

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5 minutes ago, The White Ceelo said:

Did the UK ever agree to the deal?  The backstop might work as long as a completion date is agreed. Otherwise brexit is never going to be achieved in the true sense of the word. 

It was the Theresa May who proposed the deal. 

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6 hours ago, Orraloon said:

The UK need a border too. 

The EU don't want a No Deal Brexit and they don't want a border. As far as the EU are concerned they have already agreed a deal with the UK government which does not require a border. The UK are in the process of reneging on that deal and at the same time not coming up with any alternative.

 

The UK are in danger of unilaterally reneging on an international Treaty, the Good Friday Agreement.

The British media woefully fails to point this out. 

I only heard this once on the BBC, in a rare interview with Sinn fein who like it or not carry a substantial proportion of public opinion in that corner of her majesty's troubled realm. But DUP are given 99% of the NI airtime. Can that be right? 

People bang on about democracy but democracy can only work if people are well informed, of choices and consequences. 

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2 hours ago, The White Ceelo said:

Did the UK ever agree to the deal?  The backstop might work as long as a completion date is agreed. Otherwise brexit is never going to be achieved in the true sense of the word. 

There never was a 'Brexit in the true sense of the word'. Brexit was never defined on the ballot. Only leaving the EU, which must mean ceasing being a member state, no less, no more. 

I think it's reasonable to respect 'the will of the people' as long as we stick to what was on the ballot. 

Edited by exile
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When there is a new debate on Independence I feel the No campaign will argue the Scotland remaining in the EU was never an option on the Brexit vote, as we know the vote was for the UK exiting. SNP at the time suggested we all vote remain to help the Independence argument . I for one would love to live in an Independent country and not politically ever tied to any union ever again, be it EU or UK. 

My only problem is if we manage to achieve  independence will we be inundated with people looking for utopia.                               

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5 hours ago, The White Ceelo said:

My only problem is if we moanage to achieve  independence will we be inundated with people looking for utopia.                               

I fear we are getting that now with English people moving up to Scotland to get away from all the bad things down south, like high crime rates, influx of immigrants, NHS, as well as coming here for the more social friendly policies we have. 

I’m hearing a lot of English accents nowadays.

I was speaking to an English lady yesterday who moved up here from bury st Edmund area and she said that she loves it here the people are so much friendlier, etc. etc.

Without getting into a long winded comment, from the conversation we had, I got the feeling that she voted no in our referendum. 

Now that’s what I fear. 

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34 minutes ago, antidote said:

I fear we are getting that now with English people moving up to Scotland to get away from all the bad things down south, like high crime rates, influx of immigrants, NHS, as well as coming here for the more social friendly policies we have. 

I’m hearing a lot of English accents nowadays.

I was speaking to an English lady yesterday who moved up here from bury st Edmund area and she said that she loves it here the people are so much friendlier, etc. etc.

Without getting into a long winded comment, from the conversation we had, I got the feeling that she voted no in our referendum. 

Now that’s what I fear. 

12% of our population are english, thats a lot of people who more than likely will vote no

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14 hours ago, weekevie04 said:

Interesting, Dave. I take it you would vote for a reunified Ireland? Or tell me to mind my own ;)

 

Since i'm not an Irish national i don't get to vote on referendums or Presidential elections, so i can dodge your question easily enough! :lol: :ok:

 

(the answer would be Yes though)

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45 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

12% of our population are english, thats a lot of people who more than likely will vote no

My problem is that there is more of them coming now and we’ll never be able to persuade enough of them to vote YES. 

I remember about 20 years ago, while I was working offshore, I was having a conversation with a scouser on this very subject and he was aghast at my statement that people from other parts of the UK shouldn’t get a vote on a Scottish referendum for at least 5 years of actually staying in Scotland. 

Seems I was correct in my fears. 

Its something akin to Russians moving into the satellite states of the ussr and upsetting the ethnicity of that particular country, thus never giving them full independence. 

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12 minutes ago, antidote said:

My problem is that there is more of them coming now and we’ll never be able to persuade enough of them to vote YES. 

I remember about 20 years ago, while I was working offshore, I was having a conversation with a scouser on this very subject and he was aghast at my statement that people from other parts of the UK shouldn’t get a vote on a Scottish referendum for at least 5 years of actually staying in Scotland. 

Seems I was correct in my fears. 

Its something akin to Russians moving into the satellite states of the ussr and upsetting the ethnicity of that particular country, thus never giving them full independence. 

It would be interesting to see the make up of that 12% i dare say it would be mostly made up of more senior citizens which then gets us onto another topic of our southern neighbors retiring down south and moving up north and enjoying a better lifestyle,that then drains our public finances 

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2 hours ago, weekevie04 said:

Indeed.

They basically swung the Brexit vote in wales too. 

Don't give a hoot if this sounds racist, but most of them will never vote Yes. 

In my experience, I've never found there to be that much difference between the Welsh and the English  - certainly not politically - and so it was no surprise to me that they pretty much mirrored the Brexit vote in England.   That might change the further you get from the border - and I think PC support is strongest in West Wales.  In contrast to the border between Scotland and England, the border between England and Wales is much more populated and most of the major population centres in Wales are fairly close to the border.

Certainly, on these Islands, I've always viewed it as the Scots and the Irish and the English and the Welsh, not that this proves anything but Ancestry.com in it's breakdown of ethnicity has England and Wales as one group and Ireland & Scotland as another.

 

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If you accept the argument that Scotland needs more people then you need to accept they are entitled to their political views. 

It's ironic though, how it's  considered politically sensitive to mention nationality in the indyref but the UK simply denied non UK Europeans the vote and to hell with the consequences.  As if to say, it's our vote, if you don't like it f--- off! 

Edited by exile
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6 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

It would be interesting to see the make up of that 12% i dare say it would be mostly made up of more senior citizens which then gets us onto another topic of our southern neighbors retiring down south and moving up north and enjoying a better lifestyle,that then drains our public finances 

It would also be interesting to know what makes them want to live in Scotland rather than England  or elsewhere in the Uk.

If it is due to policies specific to Scotland and  introduced by the Scottish government then why would they choose to vote No, it is a complete contradiction. 

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16 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

It would also be interesting to know what makes them want to live in Scotland rather than England  or elsewhere in the Uk.

If it is due to policies specific to Scotland and  introduced by the Scottish government then why would they choose to vote No, it is a complete contradiction. 

Just like any other No voter - best of both worlds!

All the benefits of living in Scotland while being part of a glorious broad-shouldered global power (and part of something even bigger -  the EU!) 

Also you might fear you'd lose all your cushy sassanach-subsidised goodies in event of separation. 

Edited by exile
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2 hours ago, aaid said:

In my experience, I've never found there to be that much difference between the Welsh and the English  - certainly not politically - and so it was no surprise to me that they pretty much mirrored the Brexit vote in England.   That might change the further you get from the border - and I think PC support is strongest in West Wales.  In contrast to the border between Scotland and England, the border between England and Wales is much more populated and most of the major population centres in Wales are fairly close to the border.

Certainly, on these Islands, I've always viewed it as the Scots and the Irish and the English and the Welsh, not that this proves anything but Ancestry.com in it's breakdown of ethnicity has England and Wales as one group and Ireland & Scotland as another.

 

I've only been to north/west Wales and found the likes of Rhyl, Wrexham, basically England. It got more Welsh after Llandudno, and Bala - was fantastic hearing the Welsh language on the street/pubs/shops (think its about 85% Welsh language there) and going in to Bangor McDonalds and been asked in Welsh first was a bit of a thrill (Yes, a sad bastard I am ;)

West Wales is lovely, and the people too. I'd definitely recommend going there.

I'd agree as well regards the Irish. I think lots of us look a bit Irish, god I'm havering a bit and our mindset in a way is similar. My Irish pal said ''we are domesticated Irish'' haha which I sort of agree with. I've been to Northern Ireland and Ireland, and to quote a Billy Connolly joke ''I could nae see where the threat was coming fae as they all look like my auntie ,''

Always fancied doing that ancestory thing, but scared incase I come back 20% Sassenach

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8 hours ago, Dave78 said:

Since i'm not an Irish national i don't get to vote on referendums or Presidential elections, so i can dodge your question easily enough! :lol: :ok:

 

(the answer would be Yes though)

Not that its for me to vote on or stick my nose, but if I was living in the north/Northern Ireland and had the vote, I'd vote for a united Ireland.

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39 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

It would also be interesting to know what makes them want to live in Scotland rather than England  or elsewhere in the Uk.

If it is due to policies specific to Scotland and  introduced by the Scottish government then why would they choose to vote No, it is a complete contradiction. 

As a guess, I'd say quality of life, a slower pace, lower overall cost of living & probably the biggest factor, lower cost of housing coupled with an overinflated housing market in England - particularly the South East - meaning that you can sell up and move with a large lump sum to supplement your pension.

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10 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

12% of our population are english, thats a lot of people who more than likely will vote no

The survey I saw said around 1 in 3 English born people voted Yes in 2014. It's not that huge a number to convince there's a better way ahead.

 

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11 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

The survey I saw said around 1 in 3 English born people voted Yes in 2014. It's not that huge a number to convince there's a better way ahead.

 

This.   It's also dodgy ground to suggest that the reason why Yes lost was down to English people, it just helps to feed the - false - narrative that people who support independence are anti-English bigots.

The truth is Yes lost because not enough people were convinced by by the arguments to vote Yes.

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2 hours ago, exile said:

Just like any other No voter - best of both worlds!

All the benefits of living in Scotland while being part of a glorious broad-shouldered global power (and part of something even bigger -  the EU!) 

Also you might fear you'd lose all your cushy sassanach-subsidised goodies in event of separation. 

I can ( begrudgingly ) accept that argument from scottish people who have lived in Scotland all their life and seem to be happy with their lot. 

But if someone has actually chosen to move from somewhere else in the Uk because they feel Scotland is a fairer/ friendlier place to live ( remember I am talking about the people who moved here as they feel Scotland is a fairer society ) , then why would they want to remain politically and financially  connected to  a country   they left because they didnt like the political climate there ?

1 hour ago, aaid said:

As a guess, I'd say quality of life, a slower pace, lower overall cost of living & probably the biggest factor, lower cost of housing coupled with an overinflated housing market in England - particularly the South East - meaning that you can sell up and move with a large lump sum to supplement your pension.

Yeah, I understand these factors. As I said to Exile, I was meaning more the folk who chose to come here for less material reasons.

They may infact be the 1 in 3 that voted Yes, I didnt realise the figure was that high.  

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11 hours ago, antidote said:

I fear we are getting that now with English people moving up to Scotland to get away from all the bad things down south, like high crime rates, influx of immigrants, NHS, as well as coming here for the more social friendly policies we have. 

I’m hearing a lot of English accents nowadays.

I was speaking to an English lady yesterday who moved up here from bury st Edmund area and she said that she loves it here the people are so much friendlier, etc. etc.

Without getting into a long winded comment, from the conversation we had, I got the feeling that she voted no in our referendum. 

Now that’s what I fear. 

I feel if the SNP made a big issue regarding a points system like Australia they would have half a chance convincing no voters, as it stands she is promoting open arms approach which is swaying a lot of folk not to vote for her. 

If we get independence and become a successful country don't you feel all and sundry, from down south and across Europe will want to be here. Skilled people certainly should be welcomed but only after we as a country are doing all we can to ensure our young are considered first, ie apprenticeships, skills training etc. For a full generation or two it has been too easy for employers to opt for foreign tradesmen before taking the time to develop our own.

I for one would make a policy of 1 local youngster be employed as an apprentice for ever 2 non indigenous employees to ensure we don't need to keep importing our tradesfolk.

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