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The Brexit Thread


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5 hours ago, phart said:

Very arguably if we count the instances of rape, inaction and various other charges put to UN forces in their peacekeeping duties.

 

3 hours ago, Denny’s Yard said:

Yugoslavia and Rwanda.  They both ended well!

While in no means being perfect, I'd argue that in both cases things would have been a whole lot worse had the UN not intervened. 

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8 hours ago, aaid said:

 

While in no means being perfect, I'd argue that in both cases things would have been a whole lot worse had the UN not intervened. 

The UN Force is no doubt a decent idea in theory but as mentioned earlier, they are utterly toothless/incompetent. Comes straight from the top.

I’m no armed forces cheerleader but imagine being your average squaddie sent as part of the UN and literally having to stand back and watch the rape and murder of innocents, kids women etc. Worse still, imagine being an innocent and seeing the UN  turn up and believing your are safe, only to have them stand aside an do fuck all.

An absolute disgrace of an organisation.  

Edited by Jim Beem
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4 hours ago, Jim Beem said:

The UN Force is no doubt a decent idea in theory but as mentioned earlier, they are utterly toothless/incompetent. Comes straight from the top.

I’m no armed forces cheerleader but imagine being your average squaddie sent as part of the UN and literally having to stand back and watch the rape and murder of innocents, kids women etc. Worse still, imagine being an innocent and seeing the UN  turn up and believing your are safe, only to have them stand aside an do fuck all.

An absolute disgrace of an organisation.  

I'd view that as a failure of politicians rather than the forces themselves. As you said, too often they had to stand by and watch atrocities committed because the politicians wouldn't allow them to intervene.  I had more in my mind once the "peace deal" had been agreed.  I went to Sarajevo in 1999 when we played there and it was under control of S-FOR.  If they hadn't been there people would still be being slaughtered. 

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I see the Attorney General has just said "Cox says the backstop would give firms in Northern Ireland an advantage. Their goods would be able to circulate freely in the EU and the UK, while their EU competitors would not have that advantage." Does that mean NI gets an advantage over Scotland and the rest of the UK? Does the SNP have a view on this? What about the Scots Tories who said there were blood red lines not to loosen the union? Is the BBC reporting this?

Meanwhile "Labour, SNP, DUP, LibDems, Plaid and Greens come together in writing to speaker, accusing the government of being in contempt of parliament by failing to publish the full Brexit legal advice. Judging by the debate, the Tory right agrees with them."

 

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48 minutes ago, mariokempes56 said:

Watching the debate in Westminster - the Tory disdain/hatred for Scotland is so blatant. The worst being the "Scottish" tories - #fing horrible people.

The more that gets publicised, the better.  Anyone who sees it will certainly not think "Hey, I want these guys to be in charge of Scotland".

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Disappointing to see the SNP calling for government legal advice to be made public.

We refused, quite rightly, to do so during the independence referendum.  Its a protocol for very good reason.

You could say its the SNP trying to put pressure on.  But it's wrong.

Look forward to being asked to provide all legal advice for Indyref two.

Edited by PapofGlencoe
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31 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Disappointing to see the SNP calling for government legal advice to be made public.

We refused, quite rightly, to do so during the independence referendum.  Its a protocol for very good reason.

You could say its the SNP trying to put pressure on.  But it's wrong.

Look forward to being asked to provide all legal advice for Indyref two.

The difference is that there wasn't a vote in parliament to compel the Scottish Government to publish.    The only way there will be an IndyRef2 is if there is a pro-Indy majority in parliament, in which case its inconceivable that they would lose that vote.

When it comes down to it, there isn't a pro-Brexit majority in Westminster which is why they lost the votes today.

The Dominic Grieve amendment which was passed today is very important as that gives parliament the potential to cancel or delay Brexit.

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13 minutes ago, aaid said:



The Dominic Grieve amendment which was passed today is very important as that gives parliament the potential to cancel or delay Brexit.

And increases the chances of her deal being accepted with the Brexiteer wing

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1 hour ago, aaid said:

The difference is that there wasn't a vote in parliament to compel the Scottish Government to publish.    The only way there will be an IndyRef2 is if there is a pro-Indy majority in parliament, in which case its inconceivable that they would lose that vote.

When it comes down to it, there isn't a pro-Brexit majority in Westminster which is why they lost the votes today.

The Dominic Grieve amendment which was passed today is very important as that gives parliament the potential to cancel or delay Brexit.

Sorry just because a cynical vote gets a majority doesn't mean it's right.

Look forward to the UK parliament compelling the Scottish govt to publish legal advice then.  Sewel gone.

A terrible precedent set; not worth the headline or in the national interest.

I'm as remain as they come by the way but this is wrong.

Ps there won't be a majority in Westminster for independence either if it ever happens. 

 

Edited by PapofGlencoe
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1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Sorry just because a cynical vote gets a majority doesn't mean it's right.

Look forward to the UK parliament compelling the Scottish govt to publish legal advice then.  Sewel gone.

A terrible precedent set; not worth the headline or in the national interest.

I'm as remain as they come by the way but this is wrong.

Ps there won't be a majority in Westminster for independence either if it ever happens. 

 

I see what you mean but politics is a messy business. Sure, you can stick to your personal principles permanently, but a lot of this is more tactics that shift with circumstances, and 'precedent' rather than principles, and it's not always clear what *is* in the national interest, aside from core principles of democracy, self-determination, etc.

Arguably the SNP should not support People's Vote, lest there be an attempt to reverse a Yes result.  It doesn't stop Labour and LibDems calling for a People's Vote, when in theory this should mean they should allow indyref2. But they hardly play by those rules.

For years the SNP carefully kept out of English-only votes, and a fat lot of good it did them: as when the boot was on the other foot, as in vote after vote English unionists vote down Scottish only matters whenever they please. 

As for Sewel,  I can't remember, but didn't the UK Govt already trample all over it, without anyone in unionist politics/media caring to notice? 

Edited by exile
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May also drew daggers at Angus McNeil when he intervened in her opening speech about granting a section 30 order

Her usual response - Scotland voted to remain in the UK

Here is Ian Blackford's speech

 

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