Caledonian Craig Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Aye I get all that. It’s not going away anytime soon. But another no vote would settle it for at least a decade you’d imagine. You would think so but there again I never thought it would be on the table again so soon after 2014 so who knows what lies ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: You would think so but there again I never thought it would be on the table again so soon after 2014 so who knows what lies ahead. I think most yes voters will unlikely every change their minds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: I think most yes voters will unlikely every change their minds True but last time around the 55.4% of Yes voters were not all hard core, come what may No voters. I'd say there were probably around 40% that are die hard No voters so a Yes vote this time is by no means an impossibility. Also I'd say the die hard No voters are diminishing with time and not likely to increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Aye I get all that. It’s not going away anytime soon. But another no vote would settle it for at least a decade you’d imagine. If you look at Quebec they've only elected a majority Parti Quebecois 'sovereignist' government once (in 1998) since their second referendum (in 1995), and they didn't seek a referendum in that election. Whenever talk of a referendum comes up, it scares people away; enough people feel that the issue has been settled by the two referenda. Paradoxically, the PQ almost came fourth in Quebec's election a couple of months ago after promising they wouldn't hold a referendum. Failing twice, especially in quick succession and in different circumstances, would probably prevent the issue coming back for a third time for at least a generation - assuming that an independence majority could actually be formed in the Scottish Parliament. The only reason it's come back so quickly now is due to the massive constitutional change of Brexit, otherwise it would've been at least 2021 before the SNP would've proposed a referendum again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 29 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: True but last time around the 55.4% of Yes voters were not all hard core, come what may No voters. I'd say there were probably around 40% that are die hard No voters so a Yes vote this time is by no means an impossibility. Also I'd say the die hard No voters are diminishing with time and not likely to increase. I’m sure in 2014 the die hard no supporters was polled around 25%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 23 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said: Failing twice, especially in quick succession and in different circumstances, would probably prevent the issue coming back for a third time for at least a generation - assuming that an independence majority could actually be formed in the Scottish Parliament. The only reason it's come back so quickly now is due to the massive constitutional change of Brexit, otherwise it would've been at least 2021 before the SNP would've proposed a referendum again. I think that's spot on, I'd say it would have been a lot later than 2021, probably towards the end of the 2020s. I suspect the SNP would have focused on securing further devolution and building support for independence over a longer period. Brexit pretty much changes everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, aaid said: I think that's spot on, I'd say it would have been a lot later than 2021, probably towards the end of the 2020s. I suspect the SNP would have focused on securing further devolution and building support for independence over a longer period. Brexit pretty much changes everything. That also gives the electorate time to forget all the better together lies. 😒 Plus there’s no guarantee that there would be a majority in Holyrood for an independence referendum then. Edited December 1, 2018 by antidote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) My concern is that the EU’s ultimate aim is to become an empire, a sovereign state, with an army, an economic and immigration policy. I don’t think this is very far fetched and it’s somethings that would worry me a lot if I still lived in Scotland. Edited December 1, 2018 by ParisInAKilt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) Just now, ParisInAKilt said: My concern is that the EU’s ultimate aim is to become an empire, a sovereign state, with an army, an economic and immigration policy. I don’t think this is very far fetched and it’s somethings that would worry me a lot if I still lived in Scotland. I think a European Army would be a force for good, a lot better than A British Army ever could be, They already have an economic policy and in reality an Immigration Policy ( thats whey the wee englanders want out) None of your concerns concern me.... no criticism , just a different viewpoint. Edited December 1, 2018 by stocky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 1 minute ago, stocky said: I think a European Army would be a force for good, a lot better that A British Army ever could be, They already have an economic policy and in reality an Immigration Policy ( thats whey the wee englanders want out) None of your concerns concern me.... no criticism , just a different viewpoint. Has any army been a source for good in the past 20 odd years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 1 minute ago, stocky said: I think a European Army would be a force for good, a lot better that A British Army ever could be, They already have an economic policy and in reality an Immigration Policy ( thats whey the wee englanders want out) None of your concerns concern me.... no criticism , just a different viewpoint. Me too. I think that the only reasons the little englanders don’t like the idea of an eu army is that: 1. They don’t like Jonny foreigner being in charge. 2. The sponging queen won’t be the head of it. 3. They can’t start wars on their own when they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: My concern is that the EU’s ultimate aim is to become an empire, a sovereign state, with an army, an economic and immigration policy. I don’t think this is very far fetched and it’s somethings that would worry me a lot if I still lived in Scotland. I think a European Army would be a good thing, especially as it would reduce dependence on the Americans for defence and allow for a defence policy that suits Europe. It would require every country in the EU to approve of any operation too, which means that it wouldn't be an aggression force. Edited December 1, 2018 by Clyde1998 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said: Has any army been a source for good in the past 20 odd years? Arguably UN peacekeeping forces in Former Yugoslavia, Rwanda and various other countries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Just now, antidote said: Me too. I think that the only reasons the little englanders don’t like the idea of an eu army is that: 1. They don’t like Jonny foreigner being in charge. 2. The sponging queen won’t be the head of it. 3. They can’t start wars on their own when they want. 4. They cannae wave the Union Jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, antidote said: Me too. I think that the only reasons the little englanders don’t like the idea of an eu army is that: 1. They don’t like Jonny foreigner being in charge. 2. The sponging queen won’t be the head of it. 3. They can’t start wars on their own when they want. I’m not any of the above and I’m sure there’s some people that would fit it one or all of them catergories. Howver its still something that doesn’t sit well with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said: I think a European Army would be a good thing, especially as it would reduce dependence on the Americans for defence and allow for a defence policy that suits Europe - it would require every country in the EU to approve of any operation. Defence from who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: I think most yes voters will unlikely every change their minds It's called breaking a 300 year old spell 33 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Defence from who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 57 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Defence from who? Let me think...RUSSIA.! They’re the only threat to mainland Europe’s peace, unless you want to include little englander Brexiteers that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 27 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: It's called breaking a 300 year old spell 1 minute ago, antidote said: Let me think...RUSSIA.! They’re the only threat to mainland Europe’s peace, unless you want to include little englander Brexiteers that is. How so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said: How so? 😫 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, antidote said: 😫 It’s a reasonable question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: It’s a reasonable question. More like a can of worms. Which other country in main Europe, Russia is classed as European before you get pendantic, are being aggressive in all of their border regions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 1 hour ago, antidote said: More like a can of worms. Which other country in main Europe, Russia is classed as European before you get pendantic, are being aggressive in all of their border regions? None that I’m aware of but I’m still not convinced we need a European army to deal with Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 7 hours ago, aaid said: Arguably UN peacekeeping forces in Former Yugoslavia, Rwanda and various other countries Very arguably if we count the instances of rape, inaction and various other charges put to UN forces in their peacekeeping duties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny’s Yard Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 9 hours ago, aaid said: Arguably UN peacekeeping forces in Former Yugoslavia, Rwanda and various other countries Yugoslavia and Rwanda. They both ended well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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