The Brexit Thread

[Ally Bongo]

Probably why Jeremy is so keen on Brexit ...

[phart]

15 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

He has been totally spineless on Brexit. Where does he stand on it? How would he handle Brexit differently? Nobody knows as he says very little. 

This Tory government is pathetic in every way yet you wouldn't believe it the way he constantly gets fobbed off in PM question time by May. Sorry that just shows how weak he is. 

He's been SNP on currency, but political partisanship doesn't allow folk to give others the pass they gave themselves. In my opinion of course.

 

I don't know how strong Corbyn has been as hard to see all the interference, he's not had it any harder than the SNP have though as well.

tbh Jeremy Corbyn main strengths seem to be that he isn't a lying cunt. Which shows you how far down the barrel we've got at Westminster.

I wouldn't vote Labour at a General Election I quite like him though despite all the shit he has had.

[Caledonian Craig]

3 hours ago, phart said:

He's been SNP on currency, but political partisanship doesn't allow folk to give others the pass they gave themselves. In my opinion of course.

 

I don't know how strong Corbyn has been as hard to see all the interference, he's not had it any harder than the SNP have though as well.

tbh Jeremy Corbyn main strengths seem to be that he isn't a lying cunt. Which shows you how far down the barrel we've got at Westminster.

I wouldn't vote Labour at a General Election I quite like him though despite all the shit he has had.

Granted on your last point but anyone looks decent compared to May. 

On Brexit (I think I have said this before somewhere) he is playing it quiet I reckon for a couple of reasons. Firstly, he knows what a pig's ear the Tories are making of it and losing votes in the process so he feels nothing needs, be said and not saying a lot on it keeps criticism away from him if he has views that some won't like. Secondly, I suspect he does not really have a clear plan on it so going into any depth on his plans could see an ill-formed plan ripped to shreds and damage the pretence that Labour would handle Brexit better. However, his silence definitely makes him appear spineless along with his weak attacks on such a pathetic government. 

Sure, in this two party Westminster system I would take Labour government over Tory but that has always been the case for me and not a glowing indictment on Corbyn's leadership. 

[ParisInAKilt]

Corbyn doesn’t support the EU, how can he when his whole thing is anti austerity? Supporting the EU would be hypocritical . . . 

[Windae cleaner]

1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Corbyn doesn’t support the EU, how can he when his whole thing is anti austerity? Supporting the EU would be hypocritical . . . 

Being hypocritical is part and parcel with politics though. I mean we've had everyone and their granny out protesting against Trump yet labour's Sadiq Khan, David Lammy and Owen Jones have went extremely quiet with the visit from the Amir of Qatar....

 

[antidote]

7 hours ago, phart said:

He's been SNP on currency, but political partisanship doesn't allow folk to give others the pass they gave themselves. In my opinion of course.

 

I don't know how strong Corbyn has been as hard to see all the interference, he's not had it any harder than the SNP have though as well.

tbh Jeremy Corbyn main strengths seem to be that he isn't a lying cunt. Which shows you how far down the barrel we've got at Westminster.

I wouldn't vote Labour at a General Election I quite like him though despite all the shit he has had.

Ask the Jewish community on that one.

[ParisInAKilt]

6 hours ago, Windae cleaner said:

Being hypocritical is part and parcel with politics though. I mean we've had everyone and their granny out protesting against Trump yet labour's Sadiq Khan, David Lammy and Owen Jones have went extremely quiet with the visit from the Amir of Qatar....

 

Aye true, but Owen Jones is a bellend

[PapofGlencoe]

7 hours ago, antidote said:

Ask the Jewish community on that one.

what is it we're actually being told to believe here... that Corbyn is prejudiced against jews?  

feels like a smear job to me.

[Caledonian Craig]

16 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

what is it we're actually being told to believe here... that Corbyn is prejudiced against jews?  

feels like a smear job to me.

I would definitely say it is a smear job.

[antidote]

40 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

what is it we're actually being told to believe here... that Corbyn is prejudiced against jews?  

feels like a smear job to me.

 

23 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I would definitely say it is a smear job.

Well why has he not said anything, or why is he now trying to pospone a report on it. 

Mid he’s not guilty of anti Semitic then he’s surely guilty of being ineffective as well as useless to stamp this out right from the start. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by antidote

[ParisInAKilt]

20 minutes ago, antidote said:

 

Well why has he not said anything, or why is he now trying to pospone a report on it. 

Mid he’s not guilty of anti Semitic then he’s surely guilty of being ineffective as well as useless to stamp this out right from the start. 

You think someone can stamp out being a target of the pro Israel media / politics? 

[Caledonian Craig]

29 minutes ago, antidote said:

 

Well why has he not said anything, or why is he now trying to pospone a report on it. 

Mid he’s not guilty of anti Semitic then he’s surely guilty of being ineffective as well as useless to stamp this out right from the start. 

Yes guilty of being ineffective more than anything else. We have seen he has that trait in the Brexit issue and where he cannot make any sort of an impact in Westminster debates.

[phart]

8 hours ago, antidote said:

Ask the Jewish community on that one.

They a single homogeneous entity with one opinion on the subject? That I can even ask "them".

 

[antidote]

8 minutes ago, phart said:

They a single homogeneous entity with one opinion on the subject? That I can even ask "them".

 

Okay, then take the opinion of just about every labour politician who has been asked about this subject on tv. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/jeremy-corbyn-told-by-veteran-jewish-mp-youre-a-fucking-racist-and-anti-semite-margaret-hodge_uk_5b4e34cbe4b0fd5c73bfe020/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/world/2018/3/29/17168320/labour-corbyn-anti-semitism-mural

[aaid]

1 hour ago, antidote said:

 

Well why has he not said anything, or why is he now trying to pospone a report on it. 

Mid he’s not guilty of anti Semitic then he’s surely guilty of being ineffective as well as useless to stamp this out right from the start. 

My read of situation is that main reason that a lot of Labour MPs, especially those that are pro-Israel, don't like Corbyn is because of his support for Palestine and what that means as regards his views on Israel.  So I don't see them complaining about anti-semitism in the party being completely opportunistic, I suspect it's at the root of why they don't like him.

Corbyn himself doesn't strike me as being anti-Semitic, it would be a strange sort of bigot that worked for equality for all races bar one specific one.   I've no doubt there are some in the Corbynista camp for who the line between being gainer the policies of Likud and being anti-Semitic is a bit more blurred though.

That said, his inability to sort this out - which actually shouldn't be that difficult - is another example to me of how he unsuited he is to leadership.

[antidote]

3 minutes ago, aaid said:

My read of situation is that main reason that a lot of Labour MPs, especially those that are pro-Israel, don't like Corbyn is because of his support for Palestine and what that means as regards his views on Israel.  So I don't see them complaining about anti-semitism in the party being completely opportunistic, I suspect it's at the root of why they don't like him.

Corbyn himself doesn't strike me as being anti-Semitic, it would be a strange sort of bigot that worked for equality for all races bar one specific one.   I've no doubt there are some in the Corbynista camp for who the line between being gainer the policies of Likud and being anti-Semitic is a bit more blurred though.

That said, his inability to sort this out - which actually shouldn't be that difficult - is another example to me of how he unsuited he is to leadership.

According to this article it all stems from an old Facebook comment he made. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/world/2018/3/29/17168320/labour-corbyn-anti-semitism-mural

[phart]

44 minutes ago, antidote said:

Okay, then take the opinion of just about every labour politician who has been asked about this subject on tv. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/jeremy-corbyn-told-by-veteran-jewish-mp-youre-a-fucking-racist-and-anti-semite-margaret-hodge_uk_5b4e34cbe4b0fd5c73bfe020/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/world/2018/3/29/17168320/labour-corbyn-anti-semitism-mural

You stated opposition to me saying he wasn't a lying cunt. Now you're posting a diatribe from Margaret Hodge calling him a racist and anti-semite.

What has this to do with not being a lying cunt.

You partisans fuck up politics for the rest of us.

[aaid]

50 minutes ago, antidote said:

According to this article it all stems from an old Facebook comment he made. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/world/2018/3/29/17168320/labour-corbyn-anti-semitism-mural

I suspect it's probably a bit deeper that that, that' article's just a stick to beat him with 

[antidote]

18 minutes ago, aaid said:

I suspect it's probably a bit deeper that that, that' article's just a stick to beat him with 

Then Corbyn is handing out free sticks to everyone. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by antidote

[aaid]

47 minutes ago, antidote said:

Then Corbyn is handing out free sticks to everyone. 

I refer the honourable TAMBer to my previous comment about his lack of leadership credentials.

Edited July 23, 2018 by aaid

[exile]

I've yet to see what the specific anti-Semitic allegation is spelled out. The closest I got was something about if you say Israel is behaving like Nazis, that's anti-Semitic. 

Now I think it's unwise to bandy about accusations of anyone being or acting like Hitler or the Nazis.

And to lay it at the door of Israel must be considered tactless and/or offensive.

But is it anti-Semitic?  I am not convinced. 

[antidote]

2 hours ago, exile said:

I've yet to see what the specific anti-Semitic allegation is spelled out. The closest I got was something about if you say Israel is behaving like Nazis, that's anti-Semitic. 

Now I think it's unwise to bandy about accusations of anyone being or acting like Hitler or the Nazis.

And to lay it at the door of Israel must be considered tactless and/or offensive.

But is it anti-Semitic?  I am not convinced. 

I think his lack of clarity in disputing the accusations is doing him no favours. 

His old Facebook comment. 

Backing for Palestine. I have no opinion on this. 

Not to sure on this, but did he not back ken Livingston (not his views) when he aired controversial views?

Then there’s the NECs decision to approve a new code of conduct on anti semitism which the Jewish community doesn’t like, for reasons I’m not to familiar with. 

He doesn’t seem to want to clear up these matters quickly for some reason. 

[antidote]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

I refer the honourable TAMBer to my previous comment about his lack of leadership credentials.

👍🏻

[exile]

8 hours ago, antidote said:

 

Then there’s the NECs decision to approve a new code of conduct on anti semitism which the Jewish community doesn’t like, for reasons I’m not to familiar with. 

. 

This was the case I was referring to. I don't have time to quote chapter and verse. But if my rough paraphrase is correct, then the code of conduct is being fought over wording like the above case , to do with Israel. In this sense I could see why some (eg Pro Palestinian) would wish to exclude the anti-Israel assertion, while pro Israeli groups would wish to include it. I think it is pro Israel communities who don't like it, not the 'Jewish community' per se, where people have different views on either side..  (I say pro Israeli communities because there is more than one way to be pro Israel).

I think it's a political struggle within the Labour party, I think Corbyn and his faction are trying to defend their right to criticise Israel, which maybe makes them look a bit dogmatic in the face of accusations of anti-Semitism but there you go. (I have not yet checked the other thngs but am not on facebook.)

[exile]

Just spent 5+ minutes looking for what Corbyn actually said, can't find it. There is an American website which is blatantly one sided, and a Twitter page by a Labour MP who is on the same side of the debate. Can't find any neutral or balanced source.