The Brexit Thread

[Ally Bongo]

23 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Er...SOME Labour MPs. They should be thrown out the party - their main aim is to scupper Corbyn not the Tories.

At this point does it make any difference ?

I think you give them too much credit - Those that voted with the Government have other things on their mind

Hoey is basically an Ulster Unionist

Corbyn is a pipe dream - His idea on Brexit is almost identical to big Tereeza's

He is shit scared of both the Labour Leave and Labour Remain vote

The only thing Corbyn offers is a possible barrier to the SNP and Scottish Independence by deluding enough voters 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Ally Bongo

[exile]

Heard some govt official this morning talking about Brexit, they're all over the place, they have no clue what they are going to do, they are still in denial, all they can say is something along the lines of Theresa May is very clear... we will fulfil [all the good things you /the people say they want] and will avoid all the bad things. But wthey have still to decide which package of good an dbad things we are going to get. 

You can't have a permeable N-S border in Ireland, ad no east west barrier ireland-GB, and also have the UK fully leaving the EU. You just can't. Unless Ireland rejoins the UK.

Sometimes I think the only solution would be a special status for the island of Ireland, where NI has a special status within UK, and RoI has a special status within EU, so that everyone is compromising (maybe a bit like Cyprus must have some sort of spacial status). That seems unlikely. More likely, the fudge of a soft Brexit that no one is enthusiastic about but sh*fts the hard Brexiteers, or a crash-out no deal hard Brexit that sh*fts everyone else.   

[antidote]

4 minutes ago, exile said:

Heard some govt official this morning talking about Brexit, they're all over the place, they have no clue what they are going to do, they are still in denial, all they can say is something along the lines of Theresa May is very clear... we will fulfil [all the good things you /the people say they want] and will avoid all the bad things. But wthey have still to decide which package of good an dbad things we are going to get. 

You can't have a permeable N-S border in Ireland, ad no east west barrier ireland-GB, and also have the UK fully leaving the EU. You just can't. Unless Ireland rejoins the UK.

Sometimes I think the only solution would be a special status for the island of Ireland, where NI has a special status within UK, and RoI has a special status within EU, so that everyone is compromising (maybe a bit like Cyprus must have some sort of spacial status). That seems unlikely. More likely, the fudge of a soft Brexit that no one is enthusiastic about but sh*fts the hard Brexiteers, or a crash-out no deal hard Brexit that sh*fts everyone else.   

A special status for the island of Ireland, including Northern Ireland a part of the UK, but no special status for Scotland. 

Of course the Neanderthal knuckle staggers would have nothing to do with the idea of being separated, in any form, from the UK what so ever.

See the dilemma. 

[Ally Bongo]

The government could say ;

Right - England and Wales want Brexit

Scotland will now be politically Independent and there will be a United Ireland

Any unionists in Scotland and Ulster can move to England or Wales - there will be plenty accommodation with all the EU nationals leaving and the deportations of many non white people

NI Border solution sorted and no more hand outs to Scotland (sarcasm)

Easy

[mariokempes56]

34 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The government could say ;

Right - England and Wales want Brexit

Scotland will now be politically Independent and there will be a United Ireland

Any unionists in Scotland and Ulster can move to England or Wales - there will be plenty accommodation with all the EU nationals leaving and the deportations of many non white people

NI Border solution sorted and no more hand outs to Scotland (sarcasm)

Easy

Aye I can see that being discussed in various pubs in NI now......

 

 

[weekevie04]

From May's speech today, she is going back on her agreement in December about the backstop regards Northern Ireland. 

Although the last few days have certainly made it look like there is a chance that there might be not be a deal,  I think when push comes to shove, the British government will back down and there will be some form of agreement - customs union and single market for the whole of GB/NI.  The Brexiteers will huff and puff a bit, but they don't have the wits, numbers or cajones to take down the British prime minister (the likes of Gove and Fox are not warriors) - and seriously, Jacob Rees Mogg will be PM ? Not a scooby, he's a backbench MP who gets far too much time! 

 

[antidote]

2 hours ago, weekevie04 said:

From May's speech today, she is going back on her agreement in December about the backstop regards Northern Ireland. 

Although the last few days have certainly made it look like there is a chance that there might be not be a deal,  I think when push comes to shove, the British government will back down and there will be some form of agreement - customs union and single market for the whole of GB/NI.  The Brexiteers will huff and puff a bit, but they don't have the wits, numbers or cajones to take down the British prime minister (the likes of Gove and Fox are not warriors) - and seriously, Jacob Rees Mogg will be PM ? Not a scooby, he's a backbench MP who gets far too much time! 

 

They have to back down for the sake of the city of London which makes most of the dosh for them. 

A no deal would mean they move out of London on mass taking thousands of jobs with them. They don’t care that much for some losses in the manufacturing industry, but their jewel in the crown is a step to far. 

Edited July 20, 2018 by antidote

[exile]

2 hours ago, weekevie04 said:

From May's speech today, she is going back on her agreement in December about the backstop regards Northern Ireland. 

Although the last few days have certainly made it look like there is a chance that there might be not be a deal,  I think when push comes to shove, the British government will back down and there will be some form of agreement - customs union and single market for the whole of GB/NI.  The Brexiteers will huff and puff a bit, but they don't have the wits, numbers or cajones to take down the British prime minister (the likes of Gove and Fox are not warriors) - and seriously, Jacob Rees Mogg will be PM ? Not a scooby, he's a backbench MP who gets far too much time! 

 

Yes I still think this the most likely (though by no means certainty) - a messy 'good old british' compromise, City relieved, JRM huffing and puffing.

[Clyde1998]

Just looking at regional GDP figures for the UK (2013):

Nation (£m)

• UK Total - £1,709,531 (£27,013 per capita)
• England - £1,447,537 (£27,257)
• Scotland - £167,276 (£31,562)
• Wales - £58,084 (£18,958)
• N Ireland - £36,634 (£20,192)

English regions (£m)

• London - £377,566 (£46,020)
• SE England - £253,475 (£29,294)
• NW England - £157,976 (£22,389)
• East England - £145,435 (£24,808)
• SW England - £126,950 (£23,949)
• West Midlands - £122,979 (£21,927)
• Yorkshire - £113,446 (£21,453)
• East Midlands - £99,096 (£21,840)
• NE England - £50,614 (£19,494)

Others (£m)

• UK minus Scotland - £1,542,255 (£26,597)
• UK minus London - £1,331,965 (£24,182)
• England minus London - £1,069,971 (£23,829)

The bottom two figures show just how London distorts the UK's financial figures - with the GDP being nearly £3,000 per person lower without London than with it. Of course, a lot of London's GDP will be made up from companies that are based outwith the UK.

Doing some rather crude calculations based on the UK's tax revenue to GDP ratio of 34.4% - the UK would lose nearly £62bn of tax revenue if the UK-wide GDP per capita figure was the same as without London; £974 per capita. That would put the UK deficit back over £100bn. 

Economically, the UK is playing a dangerous game. Leaving the EU without a deal would be suicide.

[Third Lanark]

17 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

At this point does it make any difference ?

I think you give them too much credit - Those that voted with the Government have other things on their mind

Hoey is basically an Ulster Unionist

Corbyn is a pipe dream - His idea on Brexit is almost identical to big Tereeza's

He is shit scared of both the Labour Leave and Labour Remain vote

The only thing Corbyn offers is a possible barrier to the SNP and Scottish Independence by deluding enough voters 

A Corbyn government is the ONLY hope of saving the NHS from total US privatisation. You call that a pipe dream. The SNP is incapable of saving it; they are still too wedded to the capitalist model.

[antidote]

44 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

A Corbyn government is the ONLY hope of saving the NHS from total US privatisation. You call that a pipe dream. The SNP is incapable of saving it; they are still too wedded to the capitalist model.

Corbyn couldn’t run his office Christmas raffle.

Some hope. 

[mariokempes56]

48 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

A Corbyn government is the ONLY hope of saving the NHS from total US privatisation. You call that a pipe dream. The SNP is incapable of saving it; they are still too wedded to the capitalist model.

Corbyn is a complete arse & I wouldnt trust him with anything. SNP cannot save NHS in UK, of course not, but they at least are trying to do what they can in Scotland with very limited powers.

[ParisInAKilt]

20 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

A Corbyn government is the ONLY hope of saving the NHS from total US privatisation. You call that a pipe dream. The SNP is incapable of saving it; they are still too wedded to the capitalist model.

Every party would love that to happen, and like student fees when there’s a chance to push it through it will happen, unless the public fight it 

[Ally Bongo]

When project fear becomes a reality

[Grim Jim]

Who do you think you are kidding Mr..... 🎶

[Dave78]

4 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

When project fear becomes a reality

 

I'm convinced this is posturing for the negotiations.

May says 'no deal is better than a bad deal', but i'm similarly convinced she doesn't really believe that.

[Third Lanark]

22 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Every party would love that to happen, and like student fees when there’s a chance to push it through it will happen, unless the public fight it 

EVERY party - EVERY party? The Tories are idealogically opposed to the NHS. We can protest all we like but only a Labour govt. are pledged to save it.

[Third Lanark]

23 hours ago, antidote said:

Corbyn couldn’t run his office Christmas raffle.

Some hope. 

He's done well to run the LP on behalf of the members despite constant sabotage from the right of his party plus T. Blair.

[Caledonian Craig]

35 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

He's done well to run the LP on behalf of the members despite constant sabotage from the right of his party plus T. Blair.

He has been totally spineless on Brexit. Where does he stand on it? How would he handle Brexit differently? Nobody knows as he says very little. 

This Tory government is pathetic in every way yet you wouldn't believe it the way he constantly gets fobbed off in PM question time by May. Sorry that just shows how weak he is. 

[ParisInAKilt]

43 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

EVERY party - EVERY party? The Tories are idealogically opposed to the NHS. We can protest all we like but only a Labour govt. are pledged to save it.

It’s naive to believe anything the Labour Party say. 

[antidote]

55 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

He's done well to run the LP on behalf of the members despite constant sabotage from the right of his party plus T. Blair.

I beg to differ. 

The only reason the Labour Party has seemed to have done well is because the main focus on everyone’s eyes, including the media, has been because of the tory party’s infighting, division and poor handling of brexit.

Brexit and the tory party are the main topics. 

These are also the reasons why they’re doing so well in the opinion polls.

There is not much alternative in England to choose from. 

As for labour’s pie in the sky NHS. 

Corbyn, like many labour politicians before, will promise the earth when not in power, but when in power?

yes they put more money into the NHS. 

“However, in 1999 ‘New Labour’ marked the start of a transition of the NHS from a public sector provider to include the private sector under the disguise of choice and competition. New Labour’s reforms of the NHS proved to be highly unpopular both within and outside the mainstream Labour Party.”

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/kailash-chand/moment-of-honesty-is-required-new-labour-began-dismantling-of-our-nhs

 

There’s a mountain of information out there to suggest that the Labour Party is just as bad, if not worse, with the nhs as the tories are. 

That, imo, will not change with Corbyn because he will fall into the establishment role. 

[ParisInAKilt]

24 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

It’s naive to believe anything the Labour Party say. 

Political parties say*

[biffer]

3 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

He's done well to run the LP on behalf of the members despite constant sabotage from the right of his party plus T. Blair.

For an opposition party not to be miles ahead in the polls given a government in such a complete state of disarray is abject failure. But Corbin apologists will just whine about it being the media.

[Caledonian Craig]

5 hours ago, biffer said:

For an opposition party not to be miles ahead in the polls given a government in such a complete state of disarray is abject failure. But Corbin apologists will just whine about it being the media.

Spot on. 

The Tories have been beyond shambolic but you wouldn't know it looking at opinion polls. That says much about Corbyn that he cannot even appeal to people when the only other party in a two horse race to No 10 are dead ducks. 

Watch him in PM QT and he is toothless and cannot get across the incompetence of the Tories. Simply not good enough. 

[Ally Bongo]

You actually have to wonder about folk in Scotland that still vote Labour .....