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The Brexit Thread


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@ Hamden loon. And most of our towns, villages and cities would be booming with all that spending power. 

 

In times gone by the teeside mafia used to block Scots getting a job in their own waters, now they do it inadvertently (maybe not) by getting their mates, family members in first. 

I always say that no voters should work beside these guys for a few days and they’ll soon be voting yes.

I was scheduled to go on the stair ridge, but knocked it back at the last second. That’s after me doing all the week long course too 🤭

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5 hours ago, antidote said:

I’m sure hampden loon will back me up on this. 

It would also hurt the working class, in particular, the north east of England if Scotland were to go down the road of Scots get a job first offshore, like the Norwegians do.

You can hardly get a job offshore for Geordies, teesiders etc. 

The loss to Scotland in economic spending from these migrant workers is huge.

The North Sea is practically driving their local economies. 

Presumably the Norwegians are able to do that because they're not part of the EU? It'd contravene single market employment laws i'd imagine?

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7 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

But the people telling me Brexit will be a disaster are the same people who told me Scottish independence would be a disaster. I’m confused. 

In 2014 the plan was for Scotland to be an EU member.  Indeed our future trading relationship with England would have been defined by us both being members.  Though admittedly there would have be intermittent period where things were awkward as we waited for application to apply.

Now : fast forward to 2018.  The Brexit proposal isn't to give Scotland the same status as CH, Norway or Iceland.  EEA membership would be the sensible way to unite the UK after a 52:48 vote.....
Instead some elements of Tory / UKIP want entirely clean and permanent break from the EU.  That means losing not just access to the single market but also 53 global trade deals we enjoy under auspices of EU membership. 

UK would be the 2nd country in world (along with North Korea!) to have no FTA agreements in place.
Have a think about that....

Edited by Haggis_trap
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Just now, Dave78 said:

Presumably the Norwegians are able to do that because they're not part of the EU? It'd contravene single market employment laws i'd imagine?

Uhhhm : They are also able to do that because they are not part of the UK :D

FWIW : Norway has extracted same total barrels of oil as Scotland.  They are one of richest nations on earth.  Meanwhile Westminster spunked the money for us (Thatcher closed down the coal mines / ship yards with revenue) and then they call us subsidy junkies.

To put it politely : The EU is not the root of UKs many problems.
That is the politics of blame which they accuse Scots of being guilty.

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36 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

Presumably the Norwegians are able to do that because they're not part of the EU? It'd contravene single market employment laws i'd imagine?

Not too sure of that. I remember a few years back that expats had to speak Norwegian, or some words, to get a job in Norway. 

This was aimed mainly at the polish migrant workers.  

The Norwegians, as a good few other eu countries Denmark, Italy etc, seem to be more nationalistic when it comes to who gets jobs within their country, or on their projects overseas. Fluent speakers seem to be the buzz words. 

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9 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Vote the wrong way and you’ll be punished? 

Nothing to do with the vote - just facts of what might happen if you vote that way if no agreement can be reached 

It's the UK that doesn't want to be in the CU or SM 

And thats one juicy trade deal the EU have done with Japan - will make visiting there more appealing as goods will be cheaper

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44857317 

 

Edited by Ally Bongo
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14 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Nothing to do with the vote - just facts of what might happen if you vote that way if no agreement can be reached 

It's the UK that doesn't want to be in the CU or SM 

And thats one juicy trade deal the EU have done with Japan - will make visiting there more appealing as goods will be cheaper

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44857317 

 

I’ll concede to your greater knowledge on what the politicians are saying publicly as reported by the mainstream media. 

I suspect what is said publicly is very diffident to what’s happening privately, like I said I’m not sure how to take what’s going on just now, which is okay, we shouldn’t be forced into picking a side. 

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17 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

I’ll concede to your greater knowledge on what the politicians are saying publicly as reported by the mainstream media. 

I suspect what is said publicly is very diffident to what’s happening privately, like I said I’m not sure how to take what’s going on just now, which is okay, we shouldn’t be forced into picking a side. 

I would imagine that most folk already know what side they are on, not that it makes much difference.

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1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said:

I’ll concede to your greater knowledge on what the politicians are saying publicly as reported by the mainstream media. 

I suspect what is said publicly is very diffident to what’s happening privately, like I said I’m not sure how to take what’s going on just now, which is okay, we shouldn’t be forced into picking a side. 

Erm - they just passed a vote in Parliament yesterday  - something that Rees Mogg, Farage et al have been saying for long enough 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44864496 

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13 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Vote the wrong way and you’ll be punished? 

Punished by who ?
You cant choose to leave the EU and keep the bits you like (such as existing EU trade deals with global nations).

I respect the fact you are euro-sceptic and we likely wont agree on this issue.
However the beauty of independence is that the people of Scotland would decide their future status.

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16 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Yes the amount of Northeast of england employees in the scottish sector always amazes me, i was working up on the claire ridge for the first half of this year and the commission was 75% english, most you would have guessed got plucked straight from the jail, big money they were on 500-600 a day!!! I was going to right a email to HR at QEDI, whom they all worked for to ask if lads from hartlepool automatically get a job with that outfit. I remember reading that there are 425k oil and gas related jobs in the uk, over half are english employees, however that was before the crash. There would be next to no unemployment in scotland if these jobs were kept in house  

I'm not close to the industry but have heard multiple times from sources like ScotGov and Ian Wood that there are skills shortages for the industry and want better alignment from Scottish education through to industry. Surely if we're not filling the jobs ourselves than we only have ourselves to blame? The same could be said of the IT sector in Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Or am I missing something? Your post suggests something more sinister. 

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Gets more and more fucking ridiculous by the day
 
 

.@theresa_may says 70 "technical notices" for businesses and households will be published in Aug and Sept setting out how we can all prepare for a no-deal Brexit (should that be what happens). Yikes

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3 hours ago, AlfieMoon said:

I'm not close to the industry but have heard multiple times from sources like ScotGov and Ian Wood that there are skills shortages for the industry and want better alignment from Scottish education through to industry. Surely if we're not filling the jobs ourselves than we only have ourselves to blame? The same could be said of the IT sector in Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Or am I missing something? Your post suggests something more sinister. 

Trust me it’s more sinister. I didn’t say the ‘teeside mafia’ for nothing.

The likes of Ian wood only speak about skill shortages so there’s a glut of particular trades, thus driving down the wages. 

Saying that I would say there is a skill shortage in Scotland, but that should have been addressed decades ago. 

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1 minute ago, Ally Bongo said:
Gets more and more fucking ridiculous by the day
 
 

.@theresa_may says 70 "technical notices" for businesses and households will be published in Aug and Sept setting out how we can all prepare for a no-deal Brexit (should that be what happens). Yikes

Build a bomb proof shelter in your back garden, stock up on medicines, paracetamol, and fill your cupboards with tinned beans. 

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On 7/17/2018 at 4:12 PM, ParisInAKilt said:

But the people telling me Brexit will be a disaster are the same people who told me Scottish independence would be a disaster. I’m confused. 

What, like the SNP? Aye, I remember them saying independence would be a disaster right enough. 

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1 minute ago, biffer said:

What, like the SNP? Aye, I remember them saying independence would be a disaster right enough. 

The guardian, the bbc, the independent, banks, big business, Obama etc 

Just to be clear i do not like the EU but it doesn’t mean I like a Tory “Brexit” either. Neither look particularly appealing from this side of the world. 

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On 7/18/2018 at 9:37 PM, Haggis_trap said:

Punished by who ?
You cant choose to leave the EU and keep the bits you like (such as existing EU trade deals with global nations).

I respect the fact you are euro-sceptic and we likely wont agree on this issue.
However the beauty of independence is that the people of Scotland would decide their future status.

Politics and politicians. You may not agree with the people who voted to leave the EU but they exercised their democracy and it’s been shat over by the system. This could easily have been Scotland in 2014, although granted at least the SNP wanted independence, when its unclear if the Tory’s actually want to leave the EU. 

 

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4 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Politics and politicians. You may not agree with the people who voted to leave the EU but they exercised their democracy and it’s been shat over by the system. This could easily have been Scotland in 2014, although granted at least the SNP wanted independence, when its unclear if the Tory’s actually want to leave the EU. 

 

The basic problem is that it was never clear what Brexit meant due to lack of leave manifesto.
To not define one option in a binary referendum was negligent and careless.

Now : Future trading relationship was always going to be one of these options...

1) EEA (like CH, Norway or Iceland)
2) Customs Union (like Turkey)
3) No deal / 3rd Party

All of these are very different types of Brexit.
However what did the UK vote for ? What is the will of the people ?

At each and every stage the Tories have made a complete and utter kunt of implementing Brexit.
IMHO this is because they have never been honest about the future trade options.
Rather than be realistic with voters about 3 options above they perpetuated the lie we could leave EU but maintain single market benefits.

There was never going to be a bespoke deal - the idea of a negotiation was Boris Johnson fantasy politics.
Rather : it was always a case of agree divorce bill then decide which existing future trade model you want.
If people are disappointed with Brexit it is because they naively believed Tory / UKIP lies leading to false expectations.
We cant be in and out of the EU at the same time.

 

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42 minutes ago, Haggis_trap said:

The basic problem is that it was never clear what Brexit meant due to lack of leave manifesto.
To not define one option in a binary referendum was negligent and careless.

Now : Future trading relationship was always going to be one of these options...

1) EEA (like CH, Norway or Iceland)
2) Customs Union (like Turkey)
3) No deal / 3rd Party

All of these are very different types of Brexit.
However what did the UK vote for ? What is the will of the people ?

At each and every stage the Tories have made a complete and utter kunt of implementing Brexit.
IMHO this is because they have never been honest about the future trade options.
Rather than be realistic with voters about 3 options above they perpetuated the lie we could leave EU but maintain single market benefits.

There was never going to be a bespoke deal - the idea of a negotiation was Boris Johnson fantasy politics.
Rather : it was always a case of agree divorce bill then decide which existing future trade model you want.
If people are disappointed with Brexit it is because they naively believed Tory / UKIP lies leading to false expectations.
We cant be in and out of the EU at the same time.

 

Good post . Nothing there that I can disagree with. 

Coming at this from a conspiracist angle, I do wonder if this fuck up is deliberate, from as you point out the referendum campaign to the negotiations, there is gain in chaos. 

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5 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Politics and politicians. You may not agree with the people who voted to leave the EU but they exercised their democracy and it’s been shat over by the system. This could easily have been Scotland in 2014, although granted at least the SNP wanted independence, when its unclear if the Tory’s actually want to leave the EU. 

 

It could easily have been the Labour Party again who have promised Scotland so much, home rule, and shat over Scotland time and time again by their betrayal to our country.

Corbyn will not make one iota of a difference in this respect as he will just follow the establishment line when it comes to Scotland and its aspirations. 

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10 minutes ago, antidote said:

It could easily have been the Labour Party again who have promised Scotland so much, home rule, and shat over Scotland time and time again by their betrayal to our country.

Corbyn will not make one iota of a difference in this respect as he will just follow the establishment line when it comes to Scotland and its aspirations. 

I couldn’t agree more. 

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On 7/17/2018 at 9:53 PM, Ally Bongo said:

Seemingly Labour MPs have done it again tonight by voting with the Government

Turns out they prevented a vote of No Confidence in Theresa May and a General Election in 2 weeks time

Mann, Stringer, Hoey, Hopkins and Field

Calls for the whip to be withdrawn from them and debarred from future MP selections ! 

Er...SOME Labour MPs. They should be thrown out the party - their main aim is to scupper Corbyn not the Tories.

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