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Meanwhile an amendment that would have required the devolved parliaments to give consent to the ongoing brexit bill was defeated, with I think only the SNP MPs supporting it (possibly Greens as well).  Labour abstained, showing once again they are happy to damage Scotland's interests to suit their Westminster bosses.

Now May wants to break up for the summer holidays early to curtail any debate.  That is utterly disgraceful.  What we are seeing here appears to be a right wing coup.  It's like a parody of 1930s Germany without the jackboots, the gradual erosion of democracy stage by stage, while the compliant media including the BBC distort the news for them.  A no deal brexit looks inevitable now and I reckon that's exactly what the ERG lot have wanted all along.  May is a coward, totally clueless and as weak as any PM in history, anywhere in the known universe.  She is basically trying to hide in a cupboard going lalala I can't hear you.

Time to launch the lifeboats.  Don't think for a moment a right wing UK government would allow an indyref - it would be more like Spain in that regard.  We need to get moving.

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I find it incredible that we have a Government on the verge of collapse, a non-existent opposition and silence from the Holyrood branch offices and people in Scotland still don't think we should be an independent country. Indy should be polling 60%+ 

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6 minutes ago, McDange said:

I find it incredible that we have a Government on the verge of collapse, a non-existent opposition and silence from the Holyrood branch offices and people in Scotland still don't think we should be an independent country. Indy should be polling 60%+ 

When folk say 'Westminster could launch a first-strike nuclear attack on Holyrood, and folk STILL wouldn't vote for independence', they're only half joking.

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1 hour ago, Dave78 said:

When folk say 'Westminster could launch a first-strike nuclear attack on Holyrood, and folk STILL wouldn't vote for independence', they're only half joking.

Jackie Baillie would be highlighting the jobs benefits to West Dunbartonshire.

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2 hours ago, McDange said:

I find it incredible that we have a Government on the verge of collapse, a non-existent opposition and silence from the Holyrood branch offices and people in Scotland still don't think we should be an independent country. Indy should be polling 60%+ 

But the people telling me Brexit will be a disaster are the same people who told me Scottish independence would be a disaster. I’m confused. 

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59 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

But the people telling me Brexit will be a disaster are the same people who told me Scottish independence would be a disaster. I’m confused. 

Scottish independence would be a disaster for rUK. 

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56 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

But the people telling me Brexit will be a disaster are the same people who told me Scottish independence would be a disaster. I’m confused. 

No you arent - id say you are being insidious

Massive difference

Scotland wanted to be politically independent from Westminster and retain membership of the EU

The UK wants to break ties with 27 EU  member states and the numerous agencies it's been part of for decades

Scotland had massive bargaining chips (oil, water, electricity etc) to continue to trade as normal with the RUK and it was in the RUK's interests too

It's not in the EU's interests to give the UK a good deal and they can take the hit of lost trade if neccessary

Add to that we are already seeing the impact and have material evidence of the upcoming brexit day

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17 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

No you arent - id say you are being insidious

Massive difference

Scotland wanted to be politically independent from Westminster and retain membership of the EU

The UK wants to break ties with 27 EU  member states and the numerous agencies it's been part of for decades

Scotland had massive bargaining chips (oil, water, electricity etc) to continue to trade as normal with the RUK and it was in the RUK's interests too

It's not in the EU's interests to give the UK a good deal and they can take the hit of lost trade if neccessary

Add to that we are already seeing the impact and have material evidence of the upcoming brexit day

No I’m genuinely confused on what the bigger picture is here. Probably be decades before we’ve an idea. But picking a side, as we’re being manipulated into doing isn’t a good option. 

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33 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

It would have hurt people with money that’s for sure 

I’m sure hampden loon will back me up on this. 

It would also hurt the working class, in particular, the north east of England if Scotland were to go down the road of Scots get a job first offshore, like the Norwegians do.

You can hardly get a job offshore for Geordies, teesiders etc. 

The loss to Scotland in economic spending from these migrant workers is huge.

The North Sea is practically driving their local economies. 

Edited by antidote
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34 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

No I’m genuinely confused on what the bigger picture is here. Probably be decades before we’ve an idea. But picking a side, as we’re being manipulated into doing isn’t a good option. 

Well the bigger picture is that 2014 is now history

It's a whole new argument now where Scottish Independence is the safer option than the alternative

This is not really brexit related but it's a UKIP councillor - puts Mark McDonald's peccadilloes into perspective 

Sound like a nice father & son

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-44861508

Edited by Ally Bongo
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8 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Well the bigger picture is that 2014 is now history

It's a whole new argument now where Scottish Independence is the safer option than the alternative. 

Depends how you define safer I suppose. Never thought I’d say this but future referendums legacy will be to further divide voters while very little changes. 

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Lead us dont leave us

Sky News BreakingVerified account @SkyNewsBreak

 

MPs have voted 316-37 against giving devolved authorities a veto on Government trade negotiations after Brexit

5:04 PM - 17 Jul 2018
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Customs Union Vote 301 to 307 against the #Commons now ensures that Scotland's SNP Government has no option but to hold #indyref2 in next year or so -big bad clouds have golden linings.(only applies to Scotland)

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5 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

But the people telling me Brexit will be a disaster are the same people who told me Scottish independence would be a disaster. I’m confused. 

I think you have a point. But for me, the question becomes how do you deal with it, how do you reorient and reinvigorate the economy to suit the new circumstances. I'd more trust a Scottish government to sort out what's best for an independent Scotland, than a British Govt to sort out a post Brexit Britain.

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28 minutes ago, exile said:

I think you have a point. But for me, the question becomes how do you deal with it, how do you reorient and reinvigorate the economy to suit the new circumstances. I'd more trust a Scottish government to sort out what's best for an independent Scotland, than a British Govt to sort out a post Brexit Britain.

Exactly. We've had decades of idiots from the Big 2 parties ballsing up the country. 

Even if the SNP are no smarter they are at least in the same boat as us. 

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Seemingly Labour MPs have done it again tonight by voting with the Government

Turns out they prevented a vote of No Confidence in Theresa May and a General Election in 2 weeks time

Mann, Stringer, Hoey, Hopkins and Field

Calls for the whip to be withdrawn from them and debarred from future MP selections ! 

Edited by Ally Bongo
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33 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Seemingly Labour MPs have done it again tonight by voting with the Government

Turns out they prevented a vote of No Confidence in Theresa May and a General Election in 2 weeks time

Mann, Stringer, Hoey, Hopkins and Field

Calls for the whip to be withdrawn from them and debarred from future MP selections ! 

According to the biased bbc on news at ten, Labour voted against the government, no mention of any labour MPs voting with the government. 

No wonder the message is not getting out there. 

Biased cvnts. 

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43 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Exactly. We've had decades of idiots from the Big 2 parties ballsing up the country. 

Even if the SNP are no smarter they are at least in the same boat as us. 

Ballsing up would indicate mistakes. Bailing out the banks (endless debt that will never be paid), the war on terror and mass surveillance of us all aren’t mistakes. 

The sad thing is I don’t think these issues above would be avoided with independence. I do hope I’m wrong on that. 

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4 hours ago, antidote said:

I’m sure hampden loon will back me up on this. 

It would also hurt the working class, in particular, the north east of England if Scotland were to go down the road of Scots get a job first offshore, like the Norwegians do.

You can hardly get a job offshore for Geordies, teesiders etc. 

The loss to Scotland in economic spending from these migrant workers is huge.

The North Sea is practically driving their local economies. 

Yes the amount of Northeast of england employees in the scottish sector always amazes me, i was working up on the claire ridge for the first half of this year and the commission was 75% english, most you would have guessed got plucked straight from the jail, big money they were on 500-600 a day!!! I was going to right a email to HR at QEDI, whom they all worked for to ask if lads from hartlepool automatically get a job with that outfit. I remember reading that there are 425k oil and gas related jobs in the uk, over half are english employees, however that was before the crash. There would be next to no unemployment in scotland if these jobs were kept in house  

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