The Brexit Thread - Page 14 - Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere - Tartan Army Message Board Jump to content

The Brexit Thread


Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, antidote said:

Genuine question. Do you think the Labour Party would survive if they have to try and negotiate brexit after a Tory collapse?

The Labour party is all but finished but you make a good point 

Probably why the likes of Tom Watson and Caroline Flint are backing Theresa to the hilt rather than holding them to account 

The 48% that voted remain are being completely ignored by both main parties because they are more concerned with the votes of the 52% 

Both parties are just about finished 

Edited by Ally Bongo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The Labour party is all but finished but you make a good point 

Probably why the likes of Tom Watson and Caroline Flint are backing Theresa to the hilt rather than holding them to account 

The 48% that voted remain are being completely ignored by both main parties because they are more concerned with the votes of the 52% 

Both parties are just about finished 

I asked that question because in the event of both political parties disintergrating, could you foresee new political parties/alliances evolving along the lines of campaigning to remain in the eu and out of the eu. 

Maybe not so much as new political parties, more of the two parties dividing into separate entities where the right wing members of the Labour Party join with the left wing, if there is such a thing, of the Tory party in some form of alliance, leaving the hard left of the Labour Party and the right wing of the Tory party out on its own.  

Maybe we are seeing the beginnings of political parties after all?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Genuine question. 

I suppose some examples would be in order. 

Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees Mogg, John Redwood etc. 

These are the public faces of rabid brexiters, but I’m sure there’s many members of the public who are just as ardent about leaving the eu with no deal what so ever, even though it would create great harm to the economy and jobs. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, antidote said:

I suppose some examples would be in order. 

Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees Mogg, John Redwood etc. 

These are the public faces of rabid brexiters, but I’m sure there’s many members of the public who are just as ardent about leaving the eu with no deal what so ever, even though it would create great harm to the economy and jobs. 

So similar to “separatists” some would say

I didn’t think you needed much of a deal when leaving a  political union.

Absolute farce from day one this referendum and they’ll still expect voters to vote in the next general election. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

So similar to “separatists” some would say

I didn’t think you needed much of a deal when leaving a  political union.

Absolute farce from day one this referendum and they’ll still expect voters to vote in the next general election. 

 

Where is the political union?

If you’re referring to the UK then recent events have squashed that idea of there being a political union between nations in the UK. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, antidote said:

I asked that question because in the event of both political parties disintergrating, could you foresee new political parties/alliances evolving along the lines of campaigning to remain in the eu and out of the eu. 

Maybe not so much as new political parties, more of the two parties dividing into separate entities where the right wing members of the Labour Party join with the left wing, if there is such a thing, of the Tory party in some form of alliance, leaving the hard left of the Labour Party and the right wing of the Tory party out on its own.  

Maybe we are seeing the beginnings of political parties after all?

Yes 

It's been predicted for a good while now and it looks as if both of them are in their death throws 

The irony is that the EU was told for decades that migration was going to be an issue but they ignored the warnings and look where it is now

Both the Labour and Conservative parties have also ignored the warnings about their possible own demise 

The difference between Labour and Tory is paper thin 

Caroline Flint 

Stephen Kinnock

Owen Smith

Stella Creasy 

Chukka Umunna et al 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

So similar to “separatists” some would say

I didn’t think you needed much of a deal when leaving a  political union.

Absolute farce from day one this referendum and they’ll still expect voters to vote in the next general election. 

 

You don't need much of a deal to leave a political union, you just need to agree a split of assets and liabilities,,the divorce bill, if you like.   I think that's been largely settled some time back.

The problems come around trying to negotiate what your *new*  and ongoing relationship with that political union is and that's where we stand now and of course that's very problematic when - quite understandably - want to retain all the bits the liked but walk away from the bits they don't.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Don’t know about treason per say but you’re essentially telling people their vote doesn’t matter, after they’ve already made a protest vote, which Brexit probably was. 

Cant see this ending well. Similar to when Trump voters realise they’ve been conned as well. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ So the fuckers want parliament to have a vote now ?

Brexit seems to be going well :D

The government is about to start stockpiling processed food in case of ‘no deal’ Brexit
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/the-government-is-about-to-start-stockpiling-processed-food-in-case-of-no-deal-brexit/

Ministers draw up secret plans to stockpile processed food in case of a ‘no deal’ Brexit
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6747231/ministers-plan-to-stockpile-processed-food/

Brexit Britain: UK Gov't Stockpiling Food Supplies at Ports in Case of 'No Deal'
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201807111066263928-brexit-britain-stockpiling-food/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Haggis_trap said:

^ So the fuckers want parliament to have a vote now ?

Brexit seems to be going well :D

The government is about to start stockpiling processed food in case of ‘no deal’ Brexit
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/the-government-is-about-to-start-stockpiling-processed-food-in-case-of-no-deal-brexit/

Ministers draw up secret plans to stockpile processed food in case of a ‘no deal’ Brexit
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6747231/ministers-plan-to-stockpile-processed-food/

Brexit Britain: UK Gov't Stockpiling Food Supplies at Ports in Case of 'No Deal'
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201807111066263928-brexit-britain-stockpiling-food/

Glad I've got my allotment.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/10/2018 at 11:59 PM, antidote said:

Genuine question. Do you think the Labour Party would survive if they have to try and negotiate brexit after a Tory collapse?

Why wouldn't they survive? Couldn't they engineer a soft Brexit of the kind that Corbyn could negotiate and lead with conviction? Labour could be united by the need to survive and the opportunity of power. Wouldn't the great majority Labour remainers accept a soft brexit if it kept many of the current EU trimmings, could be seen as a Labour fix to the rescue, and back in power to boot?    

Corbyn might even be relaxed about a separate deal for NI CU and the breakup of the UK as we know it? 

Edited by exile
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, exile said:

Why wouldn't they survive? Couldn't they engineer a soft Brexit of the kind that Corbyn could negotiate and lead with conviction? Labour could be united by the need to survive and the opportunity of power. Wouldn't the great majority Labour remainers accept a soft brexit if it kept many of the current EU trimmings, could be seen as a Labour fix to the rescue, and back in power to boot?    

Corbyn might even be relaxed about a separate deal for NI CU and the breakup of the UK as we know it? 

I’m sure they would survive, as would the tories, in name only. 

If you had understood what I was saying in the rest of my comment it was more of a fracturing Labour & Tory Party I was getting at. 

As for surviving, maybe not in its present form. The Labour Party in particular has a lot of deep divisions in its ranks, not counting brexit, with Corbyn himself, its anti Semitic views, hard left policies, blairites are just as right wing. 

Then there’s the tories, they’ll not forgive betrayal from maybot and if a rabid brexiter gets the top job then he, or she, will have a tough job keeping the moderate to left of centre tories on board. 

Its a four way schism in the two main parties. 

Of course with the latest white paper coming out, if it looks as though the UK is conceding on remaining in the customs union and there is freedom of movement in it, albeit with different names? Then the Labour Party will back that, but they’ll have their problems with their anti eu brigade as will the tories. 

Its a complete clusterf*ck no matter which way they turn. 

Edited by antidote
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tom Newton DunnVerified account @tnewtondunn 7m7 minutes ago

 
 

WORLD EXCL: Donald Trump warns Theresa May her soft Brexit blueprint will "kill" any future trade deal with the US. Full @POTUS interview with @TheSun from 11pm.

  • Trump tells me: "If they do a deal like that, we would be dealing with the European Union instead of dealing with the UK, so it will probably kill the deal".

Trump also reveals to me PM ignored his advice on Brexit negotiations: “I would have done it much differently. I actually told Theresa May how to do it, but she didn’t listen to me".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In all seriousness this is the first (and probably only) time that i'm in Theresa May's corner

This is fucking outrageous

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, antidote said:

I’m sure they would survive, as would the tories, in name only. 

If you had understood what I was saying in the rest of my comment it was more of a fracturing Labour & Tory Party I was getting at. 

As for surviving, maybe not in its present form. The Labour Party in particular has a lot of deep divisions in its ranks, not counting brexit, with Corbyn himself, its anti Semitic views, hard left policies, blairites are just as right wing. 

Then there’s the tories, they’ll not forgive betrayal from maybot and if a rabid brexiter gets the top job then he, or she, will have a tough job keeping the moderate to left of centre tories on board. 

Its a four way schism in the two main parties. 

Of course with the latest white paper coming out, if it looks as though the UK is conceding on remaining in the customs union and there is freedom of movement in it, albeit with different names? Then the Labour Party will back that, but they’ll have their problems with their anti eu brigade as will the tories. 

Its a complete clustecrf*ck no matter which way they turn. 

I do see what you mean but I think the cards fall different for Labour and Tories. The Tories are tearing each other up, May is weak, they are beholden to the DUP,  the right wing press, etc. For Labour, they could almost be a fresh start (the dogs days of Gordon Brown seem along ago), sure they have different wings but Corbyn is more powerful than May, and is not frightened so much of the right wing press as they hate him anyway, and socialism doesn't necessarily scare the younger generation who don't buy papers anyway, and for people with short memories, the notorious floating voters, they might shrug and say let's give the other lot a chance to sort out the mess.  

Agreed it's a complete political clusterf***, whichever Brexit happens will annoy / disappoint as much as it pleases, and likely set Brexiteer against Brexiteer. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...